Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ ?

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

7000 pill

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ You checked the side of the box to see where it was set, before-hand....?

Just want to eliminate this as a possibility....

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

I actually didnt check that. I will deffinately do that tomorrow. (thanks) I did put the 7000 rev limiter pill in though

Batass

What injectors do you have? Maybe they are getting too much pressure and shutting off?

But I'm guessing your efi doesnt control the pressure, just the pulse width.....what pump are you using?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ Check that tomorrow, because even a peanut cammed 305 will pull past 5000-RPM. It might not make any power, but it will still get up there. I haven't even seen an MSD 6AL unit in years, I remember setting it in incriments of 100, w/modules varying from 3000 to 8000 RPM. Anyways, it's really hard to say what it can be without hearing the engine pull, and without the logs....

Batass

Its gotta either be fuel or ignition cut

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ Agreed....

SpitotRs305

what are your plugs gapped at and which plugs?

when does the boost start to come in?

what are you running for a fuel system?

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

Siemens decka #60 injectors, ported fuel rail a/n fittings aeromotive a1000 fuel pump with adjustable fpr a sumped tank. 1/2 steel braided fuel line

P.S. heres a updated picture atleast it still looks cool

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

I will be calling Frank this morning, I'm going to see if he can e-mail me the logs but ill probably have to drive up there and get them.
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boost starts to come in at around 2800-3000
Psi put the new plugs in so im not sure of what brand and what they are gapped at but I will find out.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

It sounds odd but I talked to the guy who built the motor and he said the cam is designed to kick in a 10-15lbs of boost is this possible?

Batass

The logs are gonna be pretty important in showing if you have a fuel problem.

I'm assuming your not using any kind of boost timing control. Just conservatively locking the dizzy. Did you buy all the ignition new or used?

I can't believe you didnt bring the logs home with you?!! They should be able to email them to you.

Worst case, just ask them to tell you what your a/f ratio is past 3500.
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What?? Kick in? I hope what he means is, its not going to make much power N/A or with low boost.

That has nothing to do with rpms. Its not like its a Honda V-Tech!!

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

The lifters are bad! every time we adjust the rockers they just keep coming loose again. The guy didn't save any of the data logs. I'm ready to part the car out

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ Calm down, don't start saying things like that just yet. It has to be ignition, and/or fuel related. Your lifters aren't bad, you just need to have them set properly. The best way to do that is with the engine running. Since you don't have any logs, you need to begin with something known as the process of elimination. First things first, set lifter pre-load correctly.

Next is fuel, are you sure your getting adequate fuel during upper RPM? Your running the same aeromotive fuel pump that I recently purchased, but how do you have it set up? Where did you mount it, and is it trying to pull gas through the stock intank pump? Did you change your fuel filter? Any leaks noticed by the injectors....?

Now you have ignition, which is where I honestly feel the culprit could be. Re-inspect everything, your plugs, plug gaps, wires, cap, coil, make sure your timing is spot on, and make sure it's advancing. If you have a digital e-curve pro-billet distributor, I believe these also come equipped with a rev limiter, so make sure the dizzy isn't overiding the 6AL box, make sure they're both set to desired RMP cut-off. The pro-billets can be a PITA to set up properly, it's a lot of trial and error w/them to find the right curve....

BDR

take it out of super persuit mode, knight rider..slow down..

I had the same issue (not lifters but couldnt go over 4800 - 5k rpm). Car sounded fine, pulled all the way, didnt nosedive just didnt seem to want to go over 5000rpm. I'm running a solid roller cam setup btw. Make sure the guy knows wtf he's doing when he says "the lifters are bad".

Everything on my TT 406 is brand new except the MSD box (6A BTM). So I was stumped. If I rev my car at idle it'll retard 5 degrees. It shouldnt. Its locked out. I also was pulling 1.5* per # of boost. I changed it to 1* and added timing. I then took it out on the street and in 3rd (TH400) it went to 6000rpm no problem. Mine was timing related. I still have the problem of it retarding so my car is not running to full potential. I have more stuff to adjust on it anyway. Oh, and I changed my plug gap from 24 to 30.

Take a few deep breaths and re-check everything.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

This is exactly the type of symptom I was referring to above....

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

The stock tank is sumped 1/2 inch steel braided fuel line. The only fuel line that is stock is the return line the pump is mounted below the stock fuel tank off of the top panhard bar. The guy who dynoed it connected a fuel line to the mustang dyno to make sure there was no fuel pressure drop. a I would almost pay one of you guys to come up here and get this car right.
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thanks for the info

Batass

Whoa return line is stock?? That is definitely a problem!! They recommend you run 10an (5/8) line in and out. I have an A1000, and I can tell you from personal experience. When I first hooked it up, I used an 8an supply line and the stock return line. I figured I would use enough fuel and didnt need a bigger return line. Boy was I wrong!!! I'm using a carb, and my pressure maxed out my 15psi gauge! Car ran rough as hell. I disconnected the return line, attached a short line into a bucket, and pressure dropped. So I ran a 1/2 line all the way back to the tank.

So, I would imagine that your fuel pressure is a little high. I don't think this is your main problem though, unless you are using some sort of crappy fuel management that raises your fuel pressure relative to boost. I don't remember what you said you have, but I'm sure its better than this. Probably controls pusle width, not pressure. Does anyone know what I'm saying here?

Are you using old lifters? What do you mean they are coming loose? Hydraulic right? So they arent pumping back up all the way? Old lifters are a little confusing sometimes, but if you don't hear any ticking while the motor's running, then they arent too far off. I don't think this is your problem either.

Check your timing with a light, and rev the car up. If your timing is locked like you said, then you have no advance curve. It should be a solid 26-30 across the rpms, unless your using the MSD BTM. Are you?

Slouch

Small animals everywhere are very afraid!

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

.... just needed clarification as to how the pump was set. I'm almost positive that it's related to the pro-billet distributor, as anyone who's been tuning will tell you; set the wrong curve and it will run like a dog. I believe these MSD pro-billet units have 24 different curves to choose from, so again, it's a lot of trial and error w/them. I, personally, for peace of mind's sake, would throw on the stock HEI ignition, just to underline it for you.

Did you correct lifter pre-load yet?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Excellent point about the BTM Batass! Are you running a boost timing master, j88....?

ADJUSTABLE MECHANICAL ADVANCE

One of the most important features of the MSD Billet and Pro-Billet Distributors is the adjustable mechanical advance assembly. The mechanical advance, sometimes referred to as centrifugal, allows you to accurately and easily modify the advance curve to match your specific application. MSD engineers have spent many hours at the dyno controls and in our labs perfecting this great distributor feature.

The advance plate and weights are made from chrome-moly steel through a “fine blank” process. This produces precise and well balanced components. The weight pins are staked into this plate and tig welded in place for extra strength. The entire assembly then receives a QPQ plating for corrosion resistance. Nylon pads are positioned under the chrome moly weights to ensure smooth movement as the weights move outward advancing the timing as rpm increases. This assembly is mounted on top of the distributor shaft on all of our distributors to ease adjustments.

A variety of timing curves can be achieved simply by changing the advance springs and stop bushing. The stop bushing determines the amount of mechanical advance that can be achieved. Each distributor is equipped from the factory with the blue (21°) bushing installed with three other bushings included; Red allows 28°, Silver 25° and Black for 18°.

The springs determine the rate, or how fast the advance occurs. Each distributor comes with two heavy Silver springs installed which give the curve the slowest advance rate. There are also two sets of springs with different tensions included; blue and light silver, which can be mixed and matched to achieve a variety of advance rates. The following charts illustrate the variety of ignition timing curves you can achieve by simply changing the springs and stop bushing....

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

no im not running a boost timing master

Batass

If the lifters arent staying up, then they're either all gummed up, or the springs have gotten weak. They wouldnt create a brick wall though, it would be a little more subtle.

So no data logs. That sucks. Can you hook up the Bigstuff to a computer, and see any realtime data?

How long did the car idle after the pull? Maybe you could look at the plugs if it wasnt too long.

And I think this might be an important question, does the car rev any different in neutral?

SpitotRs305

that should have been the first question come to think of it...

Batass

Yeah, if it still does it, its ignition related, if not then fuel.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

The lifters are dropping down and the push rods seem loose, I'm just going to replace the lifters the cam is a comp billet roller 114 lobe separation 550 intake and 525 exhaust. The car revs alot easier in neutral. bare with me guys I'm new at this turbo, big stuff3 and locked out distributor stuff.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Followed by;

Your lifter's aren't bad, but new lifters won't hurt though, regardless....

Again, the problem is your advance curve, there is no more doubt here. If you need me to come down from New Jersey to help you set the curve, just say the word....

Very true, we're so dependant on data-logging these days that we seem to overlook the most basic, and old school of methods....

BBSDesigns

Hi j88l98irocz, very nice setup!!

Man dont get frustrated! This things happens!

I just read everything quickly and here is my opinion;

First; Is very uncommon that all the lifters are are bad. Are you talking about having the loose pushrod in one, two or maybe four valves? or are all having the same problem?
I've been using my old lifters ever since without a glitch. If the problem is with one or two valves the lifters might be bad, but I would check for valve spring failiure first. Before removing any lifters make a simple valve spring check by pushing them down directly at the valve stem. If they will go down easily or with moderate force the springs are broken. That could have been caused by wrong valvetrain geometry or other and that would give you trouble.

Second; Our engines love timing, I've seen increments of 20 or 40 hp by just some degrees in advance. I would concentrate on the timming after you make sure that the cam and valvetrain is indeed OK.

Third; Dont worry about fuel lines or other miscelaneus for now, I dont thing you will find the problem there. I've always used the stock return and inlet lines with success, never had any throuble with up to a tested 573 rwhp.

Fourth; If timming issues have been ruled out, the valvetrain is Ok and other variants have been checked and your cam is still suspicious. I sugest that you remove it put a stock one inside with 1.6 stamped rockers to compensate for the bigger heads and give it a test run and see what happens. If the hp increases considerably then you definately have a wrong grind. That way you would rule out the cam and it will cost you pennys just to check.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

[QUOTE=Street Lethal;3745479]Followed by;



Your lifter's aren't bad, but new lifters won't hurt though, regardless....

Again, the problem is your advance curve, there is no more doubt here. If you need me to come down from New Jersey to help you set the curve, just say the word....

I ordered the lifters today they will be in tomorrow so I should have them installed by tomorrow night.
I would really appreciate that man, What would be a good time for you? At the the least I will give you gas money.
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It seems like all the push rods keep coming loose so I am just going to replace them to be safe. Thanks for all this information.

Batass

You say it revs easier in neutral...I personally would rule out ignition. You also said its locked out. Meaning there is no advance curve. Its advanced the same from idle to redline.

Do you know if the builder installed valvesprings that comp recommended for the cam?

The A1000 flows a lot of volume such that a stock diameter return line will not allow enough unused fuel to return to the tank. Its a restriction. It won't hurt as much with EFI because of the high pressure. Idle fuel pressure would be the highest, maybe not enough to cause any problems though. Anyway, if you ever notice that idle is rich and you can't bring the pressure down, this is the problem.

Bearing with you man, no problem. I dont know piddly about fancy smancy aftermarket EFI. lol.

I'm half an hour from harrisburg btw.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I'm not ruling out ignition just yet, especially with the symptom being prevalent with a load. It's really hard to go by what he's saying because his descriptions are scattered all over the place, but if he's saying that he can easily rev past 5000-RPM in neutral, but not with a load, this will point to the timing curve....

I honestly don't see any cam not pulling past 5000-RPM, especially with the added boost. What I would definitely check though is to see if the engine builder installed the camshaft straight up, advanced, or retarded....

Batass

Yea, I have to keep rereading. Not a big deal though. A timing light and an LM-1 should tell all. Does the big stuff use a wideband o2?

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

yes it uses a wide band its in the driver side down pipe.

Batass

Hook up a laptop and look at your air/fuel ratio. Have a passenger look at the numbers while you hold it down in second or third gear.

Get a cheap timing light and read your timing.

Or you could do it the old school way, full throttle the car in third gear, put it in neutral, turn the car off. Then pull some spark plugs and post pictures of them.

SpitotRs305

well since we are playing the keep it simple game....

have you checked your firing order? looking back at your pics it is hard to say for sure where your wires are going but it doesnt look like the wires are heading in the right directions specifially the 4 and 8 wire only 1 appears to go to the pass. side might be your routing though...

turbo maybe a restriction like someone left a bag or instructions in a pipe or the after cooler....

you might want to pull the plugs and close the gaps down to .030 for the moment just to make sure you arent blowing out the spark... also make sure none of the wires are arcing out... really you would need a dyno to load the engine and watch as they are more likly to arc under load

just some simple stuff to rule out...

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

I double checked the firing order twice. The cam, lifters, and rockers are getting changed so I know exactly what I have, since the guy who built the motor wont return my phone calls.

Batass

Thats scary man. The only shadetree mechanic that I trust is myself. I hope your not the worrying type.....

If the cam is from comp, I'd say its fine. The numbers sound ok, and you know its machined well. As long as it is what guy says it is. What rockers are they?

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

Heres the new custom ground cam specs

236/236 @ 50



.580/.572 lift



115 lobe separation

112 intake centerline

and I ordered new roller rockers and studs also

Adrians91Z28

ill give you $3000 for the setup today ..


just hang in there, i had a bunch of trouble when i built my motor and put it in .. sat in the driveway dead for a week and wouldnt start after 14 miles .. turned out to be a faulty knock sensor .. then it came back to haunt me at 250 miles, so i ran a new wire / pigtail b/c i think something was wrong with it ..

now it runs like a charm ..

Batass

That'll make some power. Why more lift on the intake? Knock sensor, thats something I didnt think about. Do you know if your big stuff uses a knock sensor J88?

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

those were the specs reccommended by comp cams with my engine and turbo setup. Im not using the knock sensor is that bad?

Adrians91Z28

if your not running a knock sensor, then how do you know if your knocking or not ..

if you got knock on a turbo'd car, then you can say good bye to that motor pretty fast ..

i got a 91 mr2 turbo and alot of people have blown turbo motors due to knocking

Batass

A knock sensor is good to have. Knock kills, especially with a turbo car. The big stuff should have an input for it. The sensors are cheap.

A lot of people don't use them, so they use conservative timing, which kills power. With a knock sensor, you can run right on the edge. I have a BTM, so if I ever encounter knock on the street, (I have a little gauge) I just retard the timing some more. I shouldnt have to worry about it though with the alky injection.

Wow, so comp recommended that? Usually FI cams have a higher lift on the exhaust side, since the engine pushes the exhaust out, and the turbo pushes the air in. What heads do you have?

That motor should churn out some hp. With only 5 lbs of boost, I would think you'd easily pass 600hp.

I hope your not counting on that cam and lifters to fix your problem....

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

That what comp recommended I know the cam and lifters wont fix everything but at least I know what I have now. I'm hoping one of you guys can come help get the tuning right, after I get the cam in.
I will look into hooking up the knock sensor Its already installed.

Batass

Any new words? Where are you at anyway?

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

I'm waiting on the cam. I should have it today, Located in Richlandtown a little outside of Quakertown 18951 zip. The cars right off of RT 100 in New Tripoli

Batass

Oh, ok. I have a buddy in Perkasie.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

Finally!! The car made some good numbers on a mustang dyno 584rwhp at 6300rpm and 518tq at 5000 rpms at 17lbs pig rich with 19 degrees of timing. Im told the .96 A/Rs are too big, were shooting for 600+ tonight. What do you guys think is a safe amount of timing to go with 22 degrees?

Batass

Nice! 22* should be fine, but i wouldnt go much more than that. A knock sensor would be really helpful.

What was the problem?? What was your A/F ratio?