90ChevyCamaroRS

I have a VERY stock 305 ci (TBI) 90 Camaro RS. My boss has a brand new Shelby GT500 "Mustang" with a Kenne Bell supercharger and a higher performance pulley. I'm not sure of the power output, but it's a lot (at least 700). With regards to keeping the 305 and TBI, what would make that Shelby leave a load in its pants? My number 1 advantage is that I am a better driver. That, and 170 horsepower keeps the wheels from spinning too much. Also, lets assume I am not a millionare, but can spend around $3,000.

I would really like a twin turbo 305 with a streetable amount of HP (lets say 400-500). This car can not be just another street camaro, this has to be very unique. Any and all advise is GREATLY APPRECIATED!

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

you said "any and all"... I started out with a 92 rs 305 tbi. If I could do it again, I'd start by selling the car and get a better base platform to work with. You'd need to replace the entire drivetrain in the RS to handle 4-500 hp for more than a couple runs, which won't happen for under 3000 (realistically) unless you have tons of time, excellent fabrication skill, and/or a bunch of freebies/good deals.

If youre looking to race any +$50000 sports car... more than likely an RS and 3grand won't do it (without the above mentioned). Don't mean to ruin your enthusiasm. However, $3000 could net you a pretty fun car to drive!

get a posi and gears for the rear, then build yourself a nice performance engine, and be sure to save enough to make sure your tranny will hold up.

since this is the power adder section... go with a blow through carb or EBL and 4bbl tbi, add a moderate turbo setup after you save up some more money.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

sell your car, then purchase a 5.7L iroc. that right there might not cost you anything and the car will be much more upgradeable. Then report back, otherwise just a full exhaust with headers and catback and a few other things won't net much out of a 305 tbi engine.

4playta

Install a 500 shot 2 stage nos system...If the car holds up you might beat him in one race, there probably wont be another race because your pistons will be melted, tranny will be toast ect ect. Price of new motor and tranny $3000, price of nos system $1200...beating a shelby GT500 with a 305 (PRICELESS) and you could rub it in his face for years to come

PS: weld spider gears and run slicks

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Like everyone said, it is going to be tough to keep up. What ever mods you do to make that kind of HP will put an end to your 305ci.

buckfever

you took the words right outta my mouth

joshh44

i was watching tv and i saw an add for that car months ago.
it said it has 550hp. and i seen afew of em drive around where i live. they look mean.
i would think it would be super expensive to get the 305 engine to beat that mustang.

Darkshot

iTrader: (4)

Lady I work with owns a 2007 Shelby GT500. Ran 13.2 in the 1/4.

joshh44

i would never own a ford unless it was a GT40 :P
but that is a pretty good time.
there is a ford dealer ship up the road from me. i could go there and ask them some specs about that car and try to figure out what you need to do to beat that car.
but it will be tough and expensive lol more then $3000 thats for sure

90ChevyCamaroRS

It sounds like NOBODY has any hope for the 305.

By the way, is there a way to make the 305 larger? maybe a 320-something? I would like the motor to be bullet proof: new crank, pistons, heads. I really want to go forced induction too, specifically turbo charged. If you nitrous believers out there think spray is the way, then what is a reasonable shot for my stock motor? I doubt the motor could take more than a 75 shot, but I need the power right now. Otherwise this car will just sit in the garage as it has been for the past 18 years...not beating Fords.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

A stock SBC V8 can typically handle up to around 125HP with just a timing knock back, and premium fuel. Maybe gap the plugs tighter too, and use cooler plugs.

There isn't much point in putting in a bullet proof rotating assembly into a 305. Let say you use high end forged parts. Lets say you spend $2000 on the rotating assembly. You'd need to align hone, deck, bore etc the block no matter what. Remember that rotating parts add 0 HP, they just add reliability.

Now instead lets say you paid $100 for a rebuildable 350 core. Then you spent that same $2000 on bullet proof parts, except they are 3.75" stroke parts. They cost almost exactly the same as bullet proof parts with a 3.48" stroke, and 3.766" bore. Difference? Well you spent an extra $100 for the 350 block, and you've now gained... 78cubes, or roughly 75HP or so, for about $100. That's $100 out of the $2000 you just spent on rotating parts. This is exactly the reason nobody builds a bullet proof 305. Why spend the same cash to go slower????

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

You mind as well go with the last sentence in your post. You may be a better driver, but anyone that can half *** drive that Stang, will put it in the at least low 12's. Those things are pretty mean stock, but you wont have a snowballs chance in hell with the pullied/KB on top of that.

If you want to forge everything and then turbocharge it, why are you so set on sticking with the 305? It will cost you the same amount of money to do the 350.

joshh44

wouldnt it cost more money to get the 305 to have the same amount of hp a 350 could make??

camaro91

everyone here is right... why spend that kind of money on a 305? even if you have a stock rebuild ona 350, you already have 45 cubes. and 3k isn't gonna get that kind of power... i plan on building a 355 with about 470 hp/tq and thats gonna run me bout 7-8k, not to mention the completely built tranny *self built* and 3.73 gears which cost me bout $1500..

but good luck with this anyways!

joshh44

yeah im planning on a 383 build with im hoping around 500hp and cost me around 6k to 7k.
if you do manage to get the 305 to have aton of power. you gotta worry about the rest of the car. tranny and rearend. get some SFC. new suspension upgrades. pretty much upgrade everything else so that it wont blow apart.
i say start from there and work your way to the engine. its going to cost about $3000 to upgrade the rearend and tranny and SFC and afew other little goodies.
you could get the T56 with the 4th gen rearend from a wrecker. thats a good improvment over the stock parts on are 3rd gen cars. shouldnt cost you more then $2000 for that. maybe $1500 tops. i havnt priced them out so im not to sure about the prices from a wrecker but i know there high price new.
SFC are fairly cheap for what they do to your car.
you would also might think about lighting your car up abit. should help with some things.
but upgrading the suspension parts would help alot. and some big sticky tires in the back.

it add ups really quick. but i dont think you have a chance in beating the mustang with $3000. even if youjust got the turbo itself i dont htink you stand a chance.
that car is pretty much made to go fast and beat other cars it comes across.

90ChevyCamaroRS

are turbo's not the replacement for displacement?

leeperryracing

No, they just help you break parts quicker.

eschevyrda

zone 89rs is beating 13 second evos
with his $2000 budget rs

pm him he probably tell you how he did it

roachjuice

shelby gt500's run about 12.6's stock. kinda like an 03-04 cobra with a pulley swap. now you mentioned a ken bell charger and a pulley swap. he is going to have traction problems big time now. i would say get a 91-92 350 z28 (if your still wanting a z28) have someone or yourself fab up a single turbo kit and slap that bastard on there with a good size intercooler (ebay has an *** load of intercoolers or use a stock isuzu npr box truck intercooler) and a bov from a 1st gen talon/eclipse (they are metal and hold boost quite well). now rip out all the wiring and get a megasqurit system and there is your tuning. as for the trans. turbo 350 with a nice size stall to get that turbo spoolin right off the line. as for the rear...prey and hope to god that it will hold together. slicks are your friend when it comes to traction. i say slap some off the wall **** together and make it work.
good luck and may the turbo gods be with you.
----------
i consider my turbo my equalizer. anything is possible. hell read this. this guy has overcome all.
http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...&topic=61219.0

1987_Z28

for 2k you could find your self a ls1 with a t56 somewhere. While the ls1 is out put a cam and couple of other mods on it. Buy the things you need to bolt it up and then there u go. you could have ur self a low 12 sec car. throw slicks on it and run 11s. Ur rears gunna brake but thats nothing that u cant fix. might cost u 4-5k maybe even more but hey its worth it.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Boost is too expensive for what you want......and too much time.
The LS1 won't make enough HP for the win.
I see N2O in your future in order to take the win over the Mustang.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

if you know what you are doing you can build a 305 that will wax 350's all day long, but for the amunt you want to spend aint going to work as you will need to beef up the tranny and the rear end.......... turbos are always fun, and then stroke the 305, really make people mad, for some reason fast 305's make people mad......why be like the everyone else in the world and put a 350 in it ...... just my

1987_Z28

A bolt on ls1 car can run mid 12s with traction. a ls1 with heads and cam is easily a mid to low 11 sec car if not 10s. granted you will have to spend a lil more then 3k and maybe take into account that your rear is gunna brake. Once you have that done its a toss up when it comes to whos gunna get traction and start pulling. So im pretty sure an ls1 can make enough hp to win, maybe not a stock one though.

Batass

To reduce traction problems, build your power high in the rpms. Ditch that tbi, put a carb on it, change the intake, put some decent heads on it. Just decent. stock vortecs would be good. Change the intake. Put a lt4 cam in it, or maybe an lt1. Supercheap. That will put you close to 300hp. All of this, if you shop ebay will cost you about 800 bucks. Turn your timing down to 30, get some race gas, and put a 200 shot on it. The motor will handle it if you get enough fuel. Hit the button past 3500rpms and your chances of detonation reduce. With the race gas your chances are small. The next thing you will need to do is get a higher stall converter, and get some better tires.
I ran 16 psi on a stock 305 in Germany twice a week to work (15min). It only had 7.5:1 compression and a stock stall converter. Soggy as all hell off idle, but screamed past 4500.

creepingdeath

Talk to fast355 he just built a 11 second 305!

90ChevyCamaroRS

Thanks for the support for staying with the 305. I don't care if a 350 will make more power for the dollar, I WANT A 305, NOT A 350!! If i wanted a 350, I would have one!!

Batass

Cool thing is if you blow it up, you can get another one FREE.

1987_Z28

with 3k ur never gunna get a 305 to beat a shelby mustang. Good luck but i think ur going about things wrong.

Batass

A reliable 305 for 3k. No way. But a quicker one, I think possibly.

vwdave

Just give me the $3k and I'll mod my car, let you drive it and win.

e; Actually my car with $3k extra wouldnt do it.

Lets face it, youre trying to go from 17.4's to 11's with $3k. If it was that easy everyone would have a 11 second street car. ESPECIALLY not with a 305. If you were awesome with fabrication, got materials for dirt cheap and come across great deals, I would say $5k would give you a nice 11 second grenade. Thats would be following "The Grenade" build on www.turbomustangs.com

All in all, sorry, but it cant/wont happen.

roachjuice

what the **** are you smoking?!?!?! dude ls1 is the motor touched by the hands of god. STOCK with headers in the third gen that car would whoop that mustangs ***.
----------
denial is the first step. just let it go..... just let it go...... get an ls1, slap that bastard in there. story. my friend had a 98 z28 auto bone stock with headers and exhaust, lid, and shitty tune. ran 12.8@108. with a 125 shot of the juice and slicks went 11.6@12x.

Jay_rich

iTrader: (4)

Basically not gonna happen man...not with ur platform and budgit.

The GT500's arnt all what there cracked up to be, they are very heavy.

My buddy raced a 600 hp SC one with his 99SS (t56) with LS6intake,and catback and he pulled him for 3 gears!!

Jay

jerryd87

iTrader: (2)

as far as the government is concerned tha gt500 is rated at 550hp at the crank, however actual numbers are 635(my dad works at one of the ford plants and they have the actual dyno sheets). with the aftermarket supercharge/pulley setup they have it puts it to like 1020 hp at the crank or something like that i remember reading about it and the dyno test was over 1k at the crank the weight is right around 3900-4000 pounds slightly less then a 4th gen camaro and a ton more then a 3rd gen lol

Batass

So it looks like you need to make 500-550 crank hp. Even with an overly large 200 shot, you have to make 300-350 na. It would be tough. Even with AFR heads and a good cam 305s only make 300. I think super chevy put a 250 shot to a completely stock 350 before the rings broke. I cant remember if it was because of a fuel problem, or just too much nos.

1987_Z28

Im gald someone agrees with me on the topic of ls1 swaps.

Batass

Lsx motors are awesome, but the dollar per hp goes to the gen 1. If you hand an LS1 to a lot of people, they wont know what to do with it. Gen 1 are super simple and generally understood. If I were to do my engine over, and knew how much money I would be spending, lol, Id think about a blow through carb twin turbo Ls1.

8T9 BANDIT

my mechanic (owns outlaw racing) put a 300 shot fogger system to a stock 305tpi 89 iroc. and was walking 11 sec cars.. then he replaced it with a juiced up big block. yeah,, a 305 wont do it. but i can be a really fun 12sec car, with boost. many have done it.. im on my way as we speak. all my mods in sig, plus a freddy brown tranny. and a p-1sc procharger.. and lots of tuning!! and yeah a 350 would be a bit faster, but id like to keep numbers matching..
----------
just try modding youre car and race a fox body mustang, or even a 94 -up 4.6 u can give those a good run if modded properly.

roachjuice

dude the ls1 head out flows any aftermarket gen1 head that i know. the cam profiles that you can put in an ls1 are ****in insane~! and on top of that average 25+mpg on the highway with a 6 speed. dollar for dollar my ***. carb and ls1 don't match. keep it fuel injected.

Batass

So why have I seen so many LS1s with big cams that need the heads reworked to hit 500hp?

topradman

[quote=8T9 BANDIT;3617040] yeah a 350 would be a bit faster, but i'd like to keep my numbers matching.
Dude, your numbers aren't going to match for long if you put a shot to that motor. I, like many others here think a 305 is a waste of time/money....Why don't you just come to the realization that this is a bad journey you're about to embark on. Save some more $$$, build something big and bad, and then get the job done. 305 ain't where it's at.

topradman

Here's a MUSTANG BEATER. If you look carefully at the picture of the engine and use your magnifying icon at the bottom of the pic and upsize the picture, you will notice an ATI Procharger at the lower right of the engine compartment. Follow down from the air cleaner can underneath the filter into the back of the blower, then out of the blower and into a huge charge air cooler (inner cooler) that I made, then out of the inner cooler and into the throttle plate of a tuned port intake. The pic of just the motor is an aftermarket runner, intake & throttle plate TPI setup on a 383, full roller motor with trickflow aluminum twisted wedge heads. Got scat crank with approx 6.5lbs of material removed and I-beam rods so rotating is extremely light yet street dependable. Makes about 650 to the wheels but very drivable and still pulls 14lbs vaacum at cruise and idle. This allows retention of cruise control and ac/heater functions. Car retains a/c and still hauls a**! The air filter sticks up into the hood scoop which is therfore fully functional and crams cool air into the blower intake even before the blower gets ahold of it . The picture shows a 600b procharger but have since installed a P1SC so it is no longer oiled with engine oil. I'm not kidding either, the car has some updated suspension and handles better than when new, still pulls the tires well off the ground, still retains overdrive and a 3.23 rear (soon to be updated to a 3.25 9", sitting in the back of the shop right now) still uses a 700R4 tranny (very built) and a 3000 stall converter that will flash to 3200, and still makes 20mpg!!! Soooooo.......to make a long story short, I'm still looking for a Mustang..........in my rear view mirror....LOL!! Best time with DOT tires.....10.60..........Now, where's me another Mustang??? Uhh.........guess the budget is out of the window?? LOL!!

Batass

Guy wants to keep the 305. Bragging rights maybe. Pointless in my book. Its been done, but there would be a certain satisfaction in answering the question with "oh just a 305". He hasnt posted in a while, maybe hes out working on it. But I think for 3k dollars. The best route would be to build the engine up to 300hp and throw a 250 shot at it. Heres the other question though. If you only have 3k, why would you want to risk blowing the engine?

What the hell is a mustang beater anyway? Theres always a faster mustang out there somewhere......and camaro's dont have anything to prove to anyone. And if you beat him, and he says wow whadya got there? And you say a 305 yadda yadda yadda, NOS. He will say oh nos, well good job fella. Then the next time you take the car out, itll probably blow up, and youll feel stupid. Save up some money and build a real engine.

roachjuice

like a gen 1 can. please. reworked yes BUT still stock. mod for mod ls1 wins. end of story. carbs are for cavemen.

jerryd87

iTrader: (2)

depensd what your doing if you going n/a or nitrous i would stay with a carburated engine for simplicity and cost effeciency(now dont me wrong i think the ls1 is an amazing engine as is fuel injection but its alot more expensive) now if going with a supercharger or turbo i would definatly spend the extra cash on fuel injection for the better control of a/f ratios and better ability to reduce knock but like i said its more expensive(can get an entire carb for the price of a good set of injectors, eventually u will need a better ecu those are andwhere from 1k-15k, better fuel pump and regulator ect)

Batass

Your right mod for mod ls1 does win. I have never seen efi make more hp than a properly tuned carb. They will make more low end torque usually. So the only reason for efi, if you buy an aftermarket computer, is tuning ease. Thats an expensive luxury I may never have. I also like to keep it simple.
I would love to have a 500hp stroked LS1 with a t-56 for a daily driver.

8T9 BANDIT

[quote=topradman;3618864] i never said i was putting a shot to my car? im puting a p1-sc. thats a "bolt on" i can swap to any sbc block i want..
----------
dude, read my post well, before u quote on it.

roachjuice

lol do you realize what you are typing?!?!? believe what you want. i guess your one of those guys that say "NOTHING CAN BEAT A V8!!" lol

topradman

[QUOTE=8T9 BANDIT;3619175]Ok, my bad, however 2 sentences previous you are talking about NOS and boost is boost, whether from NOS or PSI (pressure). Either will gernade the number matching scenario if the bottom end isn't tight. I've seen P1SC's explode sbc's with slightly better bottom ends than your 3k budget you stated is allowing for. I think you would have a very hard time pulling that off well if someone gave you the head unit. My bottom end and machine work ran well more than that without the blower, aluminum heads, injector upgrade, computer upgrade, charge air cooler, headers, throttle plate, intake, runners, valves, roller rockers roller cam, etc., etc., etc., and then you begin to start making the car hook and not break......see where this is going??? Probably better find a better base to start with like most are saying. The discouragement now is less than the discouragement later. LS1 plus seems to be the way to go. Shed the 305 to save your numbers..

8T9 BANDIT

[quote=topradman;3619515] you must be a confused man. u have me mixed up with the original poster. i too said that it wont happen. i just gave some details on MY build. which will be a mid 12 sec procharged 305 thirdgen... maybe you should read this thread from the begining..

Batass

QUOTE by this omni guy "lol do you realize what you are typing?!?!? believe what you want. i guess your one of those guys that say "NOTHING CAN BEAT A V8!!" lol"


Im not sure what the hell your talking about here, sound like some crazy wife. Do you realize what you are typing here? Im not one of those guys that say nothing can beat a v8, but I love v8s. Almost all of them. Any four cylinder is quicker with a turbo. Funny that a guy with a little car and 4 cyl would bring that up. Just like every other guy that owns a four cylinder that thinks his little engine is a miracle. Go talk that crap in the 16 year old rubberband slingshot forum. But lets think for a second here, what is the quickest 1/4 mile time in the world for an engine, isnt it a v8 top fuel hemi?
And by the way, I wont be replying to any more of your posts there roachomnijuice. Your not saying anything worthwhile here in this post.

Oh and another thing, that video sucks and the car's ugly. But in all fairness im sure its fun to drive, but id rather have a Talon. I think its funny that you list all that stuff in you sig. Think anyone gives a crap?