Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

They make 2 versions now. Pro block SHP and regular SHP. The pro block has even beefier design with big block cam tunnel, larger lifter bores and billet main caps. Comes in handy for higher rpm builds. Large cam size and lifter size makes it possible to run big lift cams with valve train stability.

The regular SHP is a great block tho, I love mine. Looks great and so far its holding power. I've heard of a few making 1200hp+ and still surviving. SO I'm happy to hear that. I know my buddy just switched to a SHP for his mid 9 sec nitrous motor. Runs great.

The_Punisher454

Couldnt help but notice that the paint you used in your valley was peeling. I have been using electric motor insulating "paint" similar to the old "Glyptol" in all my engines for the past 18 or so years. No peeling or flaking at all on interior painted surfaces so far. The stuff stays slick and shiny even on one that I recently rebult after coating it about 13 years ago. It had about 15,000 miles of street driving and then set around for almost 7 years disassembled and greasy. Cleaned up easily last fall with those baby wipe type automotive wipes.
You can get it at electric motor rebuild shops. On the exterior it will scratch off just like regular paint, but on the interior you shouldnt have anything "scratching".

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I never understood why you'd want to paint the interior of the motor block anyway? flaking paint in your oil system scares me

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Just like anything else if preped right it shouldnt peel/flake.

Its not regular paint its Glyptal. just helps the drain back of oil, etc..
There are better coatings made these days that do the same thing.

34blazer

AFAIK it is an old school trick that Smokey Yunick and other mechanics used to use to help aid in oil drainback. also for sealing older blocks due to porous castings. cant remember where ive read it but Smokey Yunick used the glyptal paint on the intake runners and wherever else he could coat the walls, apparently it helped gain a few cfm in a class where porting and polishing was restricted.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Yep.. Ive used it since the early '90s. If you google it you will find just what you speak of about Smokey also. all over the internet and hotrod boards
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39189
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...-ever-use.html
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/pait...int-95612.html

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

That is Glyptol in my engine bay. In 2005 I had some boat cleaner in my garage go super nova. We were in Austrailia and the temprature went from freezing to unaturally warm in the matter of days while we were gone. When I opened the door when we got back a big black cloud rolled out and anyhting made of an Alloy had some sort of oxidation on it. I had to get my motorcycle re-cromed, the bumpers on my truck re podercoated and various tools and car parts reconditioned. It sucked to say the least. My block was sitting with the intake off and the glyptol also deteriorated. I was worried about the paint at first but after checking three filters and seeing nothing I stopped worring. I don't think the next motor will get the paint, but have not tottaly made up my mind. I have put this on every motor I have built and I have never had problem with oil drain back, pressure, or temp. Not sure if it is the pain, but I seem to run at great numbers compared with other guy. Car has scene three complete power tours and never once got above 180 even stuck in traffic 3 to 4 hours at a time in 110 degrees

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

ok here we go again....new build up for 2012 I guess....

Decided not to reuse my manifolds due to valve covers sitting up much higher than it used to and I need the clearance to clear my offset rockers and high spring install heights. Moving the turbo up higher and out of the hood further was not going to be an option for me this time.

So I'm moving the turbos to the battery box areas and keeping everything under hood now. Not sure how I'm gonna patch the hood just yet but will get there when I get there.

So with the turbos out in front, I decided to brace them to the fender/wheel wells on polyurethane sway bar endlink bushings Hope they hold the heat but this setup should add much needed support off the headers and provide enough flex for engine movement. Still need to triangulate the brackets yet. Much better/easier option than a flex pipe. The way I'm going to run this I didnt have room for a flex section unless they make them in short 4" or less sections but I didnt see any.



Now I realized I hung these abit lower than necessary after closing the hood and checking for clearance. Either way I placed them in that area, I didnt see an effective way to clear the accessories when I ran the downpipes and allow enough gravity drain for the oil drains.... so I will run lines under the car to a turbo werx scavenge pump.

Compressor location leaves no room for filters so I'll just run mesh and duct work up to the battery box areas to allow for fresh airflow. Or maybe cut the hood and block off the area to allow the air to swirl into that region. Not sure yet.

Crappy pics and excuse the mess.... It will look nice when done





So you can see how I'm gonna run these. They are about 45 deg angle off the centerline of the exhaust flange so the headers will come straight forward abit and then angle towards the outer corners of the nose. I plan to cut out the log portion of my headers, and run new 1 3/4" piping to just in front of the shock down angled towards the turbo. All 4 will meet just off edge of the wheel well in front of the shock tower. Then weld on a hooker collector piece that goes to 3" then neck down to 2.5 to the T4 flanges.

Now using .96 a/r turbine housings on these T70's.

Downpipes will start to go towards front valve cover but then ~45 deg up and back towards the original location between the rear 2 cylinders. So it should hook up to my existing exhaust.

Andrew91GT

Looks good!

I think you'll have a hard time getting the bushings to live, but only one way to find out right?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

they are a very hard plastic material so they should hold up ok, but we will see. Everything will be wrapped like before so it will cut down on some direct heat but still is going to get ridiculous hot If it doest work, I'll try again with something else just not sure what.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

sweet. decided to run em out there like I been sayin.
Kinda like this.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

If you didnt start on your headers already . What about this style/ location?


http://www.carcraft.com/featuredvehi.../photo_05.html

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c9...ey/Picture.jpg
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=3045

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

You know I sat in the garage for hours one day holding my turbo, clocking it in all kinds of positions, and I couldnt find anything that interested me 100%. Each location has its +'s and -'s. I didnt want to do relocation and refabbing the main stuff but after what you said, it just seemed to be my best option. I wanted to run filters on an air intake pipe plumbed right behind the intercooler, but just cant get that to work. Probably could now since I plan to do scavenge pump on oil system but I fabbed the support brackets and they fit nice. Those took me a day to do, most of which was sitting there planning where/how they would connect.

Top pic, yes something like that. same type of headers/bends to the turbos. Other pic I wanted to do but my accessories are in the way for the most part, especially my alternator, but where do you route the downpipes?

I dont have a tubular k-member and dont see a way to get them to go under the headers on the driver side without sitting right on top of the spark plugs. Avoiding that.

wow, what is the rad hose gonna do? its right on top of the housing! The other sits right on the rad. No thanks

91kbell

iTrader: (1)

Why do you have to add the scavenge Pump to this system? I plan to mount my single in the battery box location also and hopefully I'd be ok without one.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Oil line goes near flat 90 deg to vertical if I did it that way just in my location. If you moved them in the right spot, you could 45 deg off and maintain that angle to the pan but IMO thats not optimal unless using -12 line or larger which I am not using. Even then its still cutting it close for me, so I'm low mounting them and using a pump.

I can get better pics to show what I mean later next month

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Much better pic's on the lateral g site. Im sure no matter what you come up with its gonna work well.

here..

91kbell

iTrader: (1)

So my idea of running the drain to the fuel pump block off plate is out the window? Because in the location I'd like it, my turbo isn't much higher than it. Sorry to block up your thread Orr, I just really respect your opinion. You're a very knowledgeable person to say the least!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I just want to warn u before you get set on running the turbos there. THose poly swap bar end links arent going to last. My brother melted a brand new set of energy suspension poly motor mounts on this BBC 68 vette within 3 months and very little mileage. THe headers are jet hot coated and not run all that close to the bushings. But sure enough he melted them right out, hes now gone to solid mounts.

Im using poly motor mounts on mine and my headers are pretty close on my 521 BBF but mine are wrapped in DEI titanium header wrap. But they seem alittle mushy to me already . the heat from that turbo is going make a mess outa that in a hurry.

You might want to invest in a tubular kmember at this point. Since It will prob cut down your fab time and money in the long run.

ALso ive been painting the lifter valley in my last 2 engines... best paint ive found that hasnt peeled and is very slick after a couple of coats is POR engine enamel (this stuff is pretty awsome). Not the POR 15.

34blazer

i dont see those poly mounts giving enough lateral motion to compensate for movement of the engine, or even the body. since you still have it bolted directly to the inner fender i see it twisting more than anything. do you think an exhaust bellow would work going into the turbine? or would there be too much heat? just a thought /.02

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

I did just that, I have pics post 108 https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...ng-soon-3.html

I have yet to test it on the road so I'm not sure if it works!

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

I like the new mounting location of the turbos. I would try an old set of valve springs and some washers and some longish bolts. I dont think the poly will make it. Most poly is rated at 150C. You eclipse that on a good hard run no problem.

Just for reference on the lifter subject. I got some measuring done in this thread :-)
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ters-high.html

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

No, it likely will work, you just have to see what the angles are. For me, it wasnt really an option. I could drain there but on the drivers side, I didnt have a location to go to. I wanted this to be symetrical as possible. Lots of guys have turbos in this area and seem to drain well, they just sit alittle higher than mine. Theres plenty of room to raise this up. I got 3" atleast to rise up if I wanted.

Hmm, my poly motor mounts are fine so far and i've run the turbo setup for 2 yrs on and off. Down pipes and manifold are close to my motor mounts but I've had heat sheilds around them atleast on the passenger side. Havent melted them. I will have to test these bushings with some heat If they melt, then plan B...find something else.

I was going to heat sheild it but I'll have to test the material with some heat to see what they do. If it doesnt work, i do like the valvespring idea. I got alot of left over springs but they are much taller than I wanted to use.

Surprisingly enough, they give alittle bit. I didnt tighten the bolts down all the way snug so it moves a good bit. Plus if I dont triangulate the brace, the metal flexes on its own. Just hope the welds hold. I dont think they will have to flex much to allow for enough movement, just give support so the manifold doesnt support all 20 lbs of turbo. But I will test it out and see. Else I can get one of those flex hoses for the exhaust and try to fab it in somehow.

91kbell

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the input!! Seeing how immaculate your car is makes me go work on my car every day!!!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

LOL immaculate is definately not a word to describe my car but thanks for the compliment! Its just an average thirdgen with a hot motor.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

And twin turbos sticking out of the hood.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Well it was...now it will be hidden May even look to go with a smaller cowl if I can still clear my intake elbow....

For now, i just need to figure out how to patch the holes I cut!

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

???

iTrader: (5)

how short do you need the flex pipes to be? i found some 3in ones with overall length of 6ins


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PSM-82-4218/

gotta be some 2.5in somewhere thats shorter i would think.

bvahnee

iTrader: (2)

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...id=83871435742


2.5" flex pipe 4" OL from CXRacing, stainless
I used a similar 3" one on my 454 turbo because of space issues, works like it should.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I think I will buy some stock in rubber.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Thanks for the suggestions, i'll start looking around for some pipe. It just worries me to have a flex style pipe pre-turbo but I know guys are doing it. Just takes a quality piece of flex pipe. Not sure how long I'd need it to be, likely 4-5" Thats very short. My collector pieces are over 6" long but in 3", so i'm cutting it off and I'm gonna neck it down to 2.5" quickly over a 4" span so it shouldnt be too long.

???

iTrader: (5)

i saw this type too, incase it helps save you modding your collector




http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PSM-82-4112/

???

iTrader: (5)

not that i think anything is wrong with how you were going to mount them anyways.. i know the boards are good for jumping on stuff like this. if you want it to work, i'm sure it will.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I'm pretty much set with the location for now. Collectors are going to be Hooker weld on type but currently finish at 3" outlet.


I'm buying a cone transistion piece from 3 to 2.5 to allow 2.5" to the turbo flange. I'm gonna cut the collector 3" portion off as high up the collector as I can where its still round. With that piece and the bend needed for the flange, I didnt see room for a flex pipe piece but its possible I can do it still. Just need to move things around alittle.

???

iTrader: (5)

i'm sure you will make it work, and even if it doesn't, you will just fix it. i enjoy following along your builds because you get **** done.



and you used normal header tube thickness pipes last time and wrapped them too, right? never had any trouble with cracking or anything huh?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yep all hooker products... flanges with stubouts, then into hooker 1 3/4" primaries. They are 16 ga mild steel but the bends actually seem to be thicker...even some of my straight tubes are much thicker in the walls than my other 16 ga exhaust pipe in 2.5-4" diameters. Seems beefy.

No problems with cracks that i can see so far, but after inspecting these pipes, surface looks like its "peeling" or "flaking" away. Not sure if it was just mild layer of carbon buildup on the inside, but the outside has it too. Thought it was glass from the exhaust wrap but appears to be metal. Not sure if its "eating" away or not. I doubt it tho, i never seen metal do this. Thickness still looks good in the header from the pieces I cut apart. Oh well, if it eventually wears out, i'll build another.

Malderun

Well I've been reading your thread for the better part of this year. I recently started myown twin turbo build. This is my first project car and Id ecided to take off a big bite. Thankfully I have a place to work on it the tools and someone knowledgable to help me. this cars never been out for work. All fabbing motor building machine work has been done sololy by me. Youll see the car in primer I'm waiting to shoot it till the plumbling is done so I can pull it out and squirt her this spring. Anyways off topic I've learned ALOT this year heres where the plumbling is at maybe it can help you. And any suggestions my way would be great.

down pipes both going out the pass side one under header one over it will clear the hood. the duo 3 inch down and out still working out some snags rather tight down there.

Btw I'm total newb on EFI car was a TBI 305 (1991 firebird) Been wondering what I can do besides buy a FAST system to run this twin setup. Anyways some pics inc.







links to bigger pics still figuring image shack out

[img=http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4913/38113028181381519768310.th.jpg]
[img=http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2131/37598828181348853104910.th.jpg]
[img=http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7900/37387528181395853100210.th.jpg]

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Looks good! Good luck with your project. You should start a build thread too so we can follow along, if you havent done so already.


I'm changing collectors to a custom rolled sheet formed collector from SPD. Its already necked down to 2.5" so it should make things easier. I planned my turbo header parts list last night, got a visual idea on how I'll run the pipes. I got a few different ways in mind actually. Think I'll start with buying 8 U-bends of tight radius design and see where that gets me.

Treadstone sells some flex pipe sections that supposively are good for pre-turbo stuff. I may order a pair of those just to be sure I got some wiggle room in case the poly bushings melt. I gotta test them yet.

Malderun

I did the u bend thing worked pretty well. I think ill start a build thread this week i got alota pics to upload. Your new builds gonna be sick man. Cant wait to see how you solve your plumbin nightmare

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

It took awhile to figure out how I'm gonna lay this out. Once I got the turbo location finalized, it shouldnt be too hard to run pipe to it. The easy way is just to reuse my current log/header hybrids and extend the pipe forward but 1) it doesnt look as good as a true header with collector, and 2) it doesnt perform as good.

Once I get the headers made, the rest is going to be easy

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Ok, its Christmas break and I'm back to working on the car again after a long while.

First thing I checked was the poly bushings heat capacity....FAIL. They dont even get to around 200 deg before they start melting so you guys were right I'm just gonna solid mount the braces to the fender/well and use flex pipe pre-turbo. I found Treadstone Performance sells a few 6" long pieces that can be used in pre turbo applications so I'll make a Vbanded piece to my headers since the flex pipe sections are stainless steel and my headers are mild. This way if the couplers ever wear out, I can buy new ones and swap it in.

I started fabricating the headers. Passenger side is done, tacked up and ready for final welding just about. Just started the drivers side today. Making progress.



Started with the old manifold flanges and stub outs and some partial piping, and started welding on new pipes.



All done





And now its the driver side...abit less room to work with so its abit harder but I got the first primary laid out, so I should beable to run pipes to the other 3 areas of the collectors

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Good job.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I dont know if its the second time around doing this, or what, but these headers are going together easier than my last log/hybrid type manifolds less cutting and pasting on these.

Demon355

iTrader: (1)

Still looks sweet dude! Great work!

34blazer

do you have a link to the pre turbo flex pipes? looks good!!

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"I dont know if its the second time around doing this, or what"

It is like me and my intake system. You learn from the first one the 2nd one is easier.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

The pre turbo pipe I was gonna use is from treadstone performance

http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...Coupler+Bellow

SDP Exhaust makes an inconel piece thats rated for super high temps and pressures but doesnt offer as much lateral flex as a flex pipe..its mainly for expansion as its just a sliip joint setup. Its also around 180 each piece...way too much for me.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Had some time today between the Christmas activities to finish the manifolds...atleast all tacked up and ready for finish welding.







finished pair

freaky

they look good

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

Hey Orr I have been hearing a bunch of talk about wrappign mild steel turbo headers resulting in cracking and sever metal degredation (dary dark grey areas), since you have clearly seen your used, wrapped mild steel headers up close and cut up what is your take on it?

New headers look awesome, much better than your first go-round