Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
07-31-2010, 09:54 PM
#54
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
This just keeps getting better! Love the twin 49's idea and the TPI. This should be a very interesting build. On the budget, go 730 ecm and Code $59
Only thing i'm worried about is if those are a true 49mm compressor wheel, you may not have the air flow capability to push the 650-700hp needed to get into the 9's. Something inthe mid 50's would be abit better.
Only thing i'm worried about is if those are a true 49mm compressor wheel, you may not have the air flow capability to push the 650-700hp needed to get into the 9's. Something inthe mid 50's would be abit better.
Last edited by Orr89RocZ; 07-31-2010 at 09:58 PM.
07-31-2010, 09:55 PM
#55
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
You mean TA49s? That is a ton of turbo for a 305. Should move. :P The TPI makes me want to see what this does even more now. Glad to see you did a real fuel pump though out of anything that will help the engine live that would be it I would think
08-01-2010, 10:47 AM
#58
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
A TA49 isn't 49mm. It's 58mm. Quite honestly I don't know why thye are called a "49" now that I say it but that's a tangent. http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/pre...ck-turbos.html check the chart here I think a stocker is bigger than 49mm tbh. I see big power in your future 
What injectors are you getting I'd do at least the FMS 42s if not a set of 60s. I got some 39s for mine am afraid they're not going to be enough but for $100 shipped I can sell em and replace em again if need be.
What injectors are you getting I'd do at least the FMS 42s if not a set of 60s. I got some 39s for mine am afraid they're not going to be enough but for $100 shipped I can sell em and replace em again if need be.
08-01-2010, 02:42 PM
#59
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
Ok if they are a 58 thats a good bit of turbo for twins on a 305. Should easily support the power. Probably will need to start with 60lb injectors for the 9 second power if it holds that much. 42's on high lsx pressure can support good power as well and may be better suited for a 305. 60's are nice injectors tho.
As far as scanmaster goes, i have no idea if they works with code 59 or not. I just use tunerpro RT and datalog with that.
As far as scanmaster goes, i have no idea if they works with code 59 or not. I just use tunerpro RT and datalog with that.
08-01-2010, 11:47 PM
#62
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
"what if you stuck a 4" stroke crank in it? You could be running a 350 CID engine." Got any other "clunkers" layin around for heads? I'm thinking my next engine will be 350 TBI heads. Price is right I'm going to do back cuts and if the porting on my current engine doesn't put out power I'm going to leave it at that.
08-02-2010, 08:57 AM
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Car: 1989 G92 IROC-Z
Engine: 5 Liter 305
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
"what if you stuck a 4" stroke crank in it? You could be running a 350 CID engine." Got any other "clunkers" layin around for heads? I'm thinking my next engine will be 350 TBI heads. Price is right I'm going to do back cuts and if the porting on my current engine doesn't put out power I'm going to leave it at that.
08-02-2010, 12:39 PM
#64
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
yeah I meant it as a joke, deck height is a bit short. Then again I have seen a guy with a 396" SBC (production block at that) with a Whipple on it. Exceptions don't make rules though and you're going to be compromising your rings as you said. Besides that with the turbos it matters but not nearly as much.
08-02-2010, 05:04 PM
#65
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
Transmission: 4L60E & 4L80E
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
I am trying to keep up with the changes.
305 bored 30 over, stock crank, stock rods
ported 416 305 heads (with maybe some EGR welding)
stock late-70s truck manifolds (with some bronze brace on them, will that really hold for 9s?)
BTW, those manifolds will struggle to flow 500BHP
TPI intake, stock TB?
BIG fuel pump
twin 58mm turbos (plenty of top end, will it spool in first and second below 4000 RPM?)
That is definitely a mix of parts to get into the 9s. Still watching and hoping you get it done. Before it is run it will be fun to see the final product and do some ET predictions.
Great job so far.
305 bored 30 over, stock crank, stock rods
ported 416 305 heads (with maybe some EGR welding)
stock late-70s truck manifolds (with some bronze brace on them, will that really hold for 9s?)
BTW, those manifolds will struggle to flow 500BHP
TPI intake, stock TB?
BIG fuel pump
twin 58mm turbos (plenty of top end, will it spool in first and second below 4000 RPM?)
That is definitely a mix of parts to get into the 9s. Still watching and hoping you get it done. Before it is run it will be fun to see the final product and do some ET predictions.
Great job so far.
08-02-2010, 06:50 PM
#66
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
You really think the manis will be a problem? I'd think they would do it but it's likely what I get for thinking. If they're 350 truck they should be "decent." At least compared to the stockers.
08-02-2010, 07:20 PM
#67
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Car: 1989 G92 IROC-Z
Engine: 5 Liter 305
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
The bigger the header tube (or port for manifold) EDIT: TO A POINT will allow faster spooling and more charge to the turbine. This also frees up some HP to help the exhaust flow better. So it's worth some power to use them. I on the other hand, have never had a turbo V8... and talking about this is making me miss the turbo cars I had (especially the DSM with the extended Ford warranty)...
back to topic...
How much would some low (er) buck SBC shorty turbo headers run?
back to topic...
How much would some low (er) buck SBC shorty turbo headers run?
Last edited by TxTtopZ; 08-02-2010 at 07:46 PM.
08-02-2010, 10:50 PM
#68
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
Transmission: 4L60E & 4L80E
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
It just seems like an odd match. Small manifold ports with big turbines. It will be interesting to see how it works out.
08-02-2010, 10:54 PM
#69
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
Transmission: 4L60E & 4L80E
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
The thing is that he is using what he has for this build and I give him credit for doing that and trying to go fast. These end up being much more fun than high dollar builds.
08-03-2010, 02:10 AM
#70
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
Every time i see brazing I always think hot glue gun for metal. I am just not a fan of it. Turbo manifolds get way too hot even at low 400ish HP levels. In terms of flow, 3 of the ports need to take an extra 90* turn that doesn't help flow when compared to a TPI manifold. The one port does have an advantage dumping into the collector. The main log is tiny just like a TPI manifold.
It just seems like an odd match. Small manifold ports with big turbines. It will be interesting to see how it works out.
It just seems like an odd match. Small manifold ports with big turbines. It will be interesting to see how it works out.
08-03-2010, 08:39 AM
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Car: 1989 G92 IROC-Z
Engine: 5 Liter 305
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
With a trans-brake to generate heat they would work great and make more peak HP. Other than that, I would take the stock manifolds with those turbos. If the headers were SS or wrapped well then I think they would be way better.
The thing is that he is using what he has for this build and I give him credit for doing that and trying to go fast. These end up being much more fun than high dollar builds.
The thing is that he is using what he has for this build and I give him credit for doing that and trying to go fast. These end up being much more fun than high dollar builds.
That being said, what BOV's do you think you will run Street? I may have some old 1G crushed BOV's in the garage somewhere which would be a perfect match for this combo (cheap and somewhat effective)You can have 'em for the low price of shipping... Think they are good for 18lbs or so but not sure if they are any good... What can I say, besides you know how DSM's are...
Last edited by TxTtopZ; 08-03-2010 at 08:44 AM.
08-03-2010, 09:15 AM
#72
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
Transmission: 4L60E & 4L80E
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
I understand the science behind heat having more velocity (molecules are sped from expansion) among other attributes, but the bottom line is they will make more power with or without the brake especially wrapped or coated, and that includes the turbo... For the sake of this build, im all for stock manifolds. Just curious to see know what they would be worth, hp per dollar.
That being said, what BOV's do you think you will run Street? I may have some old 1G crushed BOV's in the garage somewhere which would be a perfect match for this combo (cheap and somewhat effective)You can have 'em for the low price of shipping... Think they are good for 18lbs or so but not sure if they are any good... What can I say, besides you know how DSM's are...
He will be running way over 18PSI to try and achieve 9s with the current setup. Probably in the range of 26-30PSI with a little extra juice.
08-03-2010, 10:34 AM
#73
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Car: 1989 G92 IROC-Z
Engine: 5 Liter 305
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
According to my old DSM notes, the crushed 1G BOV will do 25 psi +. I remember a couple members on here who had DSMs if not still do... maybe they can shed some light on the BOV question... I remember the crush 1G BOV being a pretty stout piece. I think the ones I have are from a member off club DSM? Maybe busher racing?? Forced performance?? I used them all for parts.
I have no idea why you are arguing with me?
It's not just "heat", but whatever....
25psi with nitrous on those cast pistons.... yikes! Has the ignition system been addressed yet?
I have no idea why you are arguing with me?
It's not just "heat", but whatever.... 25psi with nitrous on those cast pistons.... yikes! Has the ignition system been addressed yet?
Last edited by TxTtopZ; 08-03-2010 at 10:37 AM.
08-03-2010, 10:51 AM
#74
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
Transmission: 4L60E & 4L80E
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
According to my old DSM notes, the crushed 1G BOV will do 25 psi +. I remember a couple members on here who had DSMs if not still do... maybe they can shed some light on the BOV question... I remember the crush 1G BOV being a pretty stout piece. I think the ones I have are from a member off club DSM? Maybe busher racing?? Forced performance?? I used them all for parts.
I have no idea why you are arguing with me? It's not just "heat", but whatever....
25psi with nitrous on those cast pistons.... yikes! Has the ignition system been addressed yet?
I have no idea why you are arguing with me?
It's not just "heat", but whatever.... 25psi with nitrous on those cast pistons.... yikes! Has the ignition system been addressed yet?
Yeah, he realizes it is going to come apart to reach 9s ETs. It is a "throw what ya got laying around on it" and keeping turning up the boost + juice until it comes apart or reaches 9s ETs.
08-03-2010, 04:54 PM
#75
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
It will come down to how well the thing launches. leaving on boost is a must. You can get 9.99 with 132-133 mph traps which is around 525-550whp. Achievable on a race gas supplied 305 and lower raceweights, say 3300-3400 lbs. If the car is light and can scoot off the line, it has a chance to get in the 9's without really stressing the internals. I mean 500whp is stressing alot, but give it 650whp and you may see it split in half, but if it holds you will see 140+ mph traps
08-04-2010, 09:12 AM
#76
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Car: Trans Am, Corvette
Engine: LB9, LT1
Transmission: 700R4, 4L60
Axle/Gears: 373, 259
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
ZDADDY was making i think 500+RWHP on a stock bottom end / heads LB9. He later rebuilt it for 900 or so. He used a Vortech and modded TPI. Either way, The power can possibly be made IMO if the bottom end is healthy enough. Getting it to the ground and propelling the T/A IDK? Then again arent the early cars a bit lighter than the later Thirdgens?
08-04-2010, 11:15 AM
#78
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
I wouldn't put a tap into the holes. It will mess up the threads and you need them as good as new for the boost you are going to run. I would get the proper thread chaser.
08-09-2010, 04:46 PM
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
Had a minor setback with a broken bolt that I found in the crank snout which turned out to be hardened steel. Have no idea what the former owner was thinking, as it looks like it once was part of a harmonic balancer puller (you can see the shavings on the floor in the pic). Took awhile to get out, but it's finally out, as well as the stock camshaft and lifters. The cam I ordered for the 305 just got here, its a 224/230 on a 114 LSA. Still need to clean up the engine, but the next post will have the cylinder heads bolted up, as well as the engine looking a little more presentable. Should have it ready in about a day or two.....
Man, that is a lot of work to do with the engine still in there. Cam choice seems good for the TPI and ported heads. I hope it was a cheapie $50 one or free.
08-10-2010, 01:42 AM
#82
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
I'm curious to see how the idle and dyno charts would look for this. I am starting to think I significantly under cammed mine with a 204/214.
08-10-2010, 11:12 AM
#83
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
Transmission: 4L60E & 4L80E
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
Street Lethal,
What are you running for a rear-end and transmission in it?
08-10-2010, 12:20 PM
#85
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
Bigger cam in the TPI will help hold onto power after it peaks. That extends the rpm range before the need to shift. May need some rpm to trap 9 second mph's, depending on what gear/tire you end up with.
08-10-2010, 03:04 PM
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
I was really considering a camshaft that I already had just sitting on the shelf to run with the twins just to save a few bucks, its a Lunati grind #00016 (218/218 458"/458" 110-LSA). But I'm glad I went with the latter. I'm running the stock 700R4 w/stock posi and 3.73 gears in the back. Going to have to enhance it a little bit with SFC's and a few other goodies, but that's later on down the road....
I bet that stock 700R4 breaks in the early tuning stages and never comes close to making a pass. Are you going to build up a THM350, 700R4, or just go with the TH400 or 4L80E to make it down the 1/4 mile? If all you care about is one 9s pass I would just go with the TH400 because it would be the cheapest. Buy a used one for a couple hundred and through it in with a stock re-stalled converter.
08-12-2010, 12:44 AM
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
^^I agree I was going to say he won't make it off the dyno, but you're right, he won't even make it to that! LOL
To the OP: Keep it up man! With your enthusiasm I know you won't let a lil thing like a burnt up 700r4 stop you. Can't wait to see the results. For sure going to be following this thread.
To the OP: Keep it up man! With your enthusiasm I know you won't let a lil thing like a burnt up 700r4 stop you. Can't wait to see the results. For sure going to be following this thread.
08-12-2010, 01:35 PM
#91
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Car: 83 Z28
Engine: 355
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3:73
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
Kudos to you StreetLethal for this great thread.Can't wait to see what it'll run!
08-12-2010, 01:41 PM
#92
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
Its just a common hydraulic flat tappet that wasn't too expensive. I really wanted to try the 218/218 Lunati cam that I have, mainly because of Marty's build over on the turbo forums. He was running a stock bottom ended 350 out of a truck, with the stock 1.72 heads, and 268 cam (which is also a 218/218). My Lunati cam has more lift, and I'm running much larger valves, and it would have been interesting to see if I could have run similar times with the 305, but with more boost of course. Not much to update just yet, as the head gaskets were of course the wrong size so they were shipped back, and the Mr. Gasket timing cover didn't come with a timing tab so now I am waiting for that little piece before I put the balancer and water pump back on. The cam is in though, as well as the comp cam lifters. The oil return fitting, although looks small in the pic, is actually larger than -8 AN after we drilled it out, and will not be a restriction whatsoever. I have another oil pan that I will be using, and the second oil return fitting will be welded into it...
Comparing his setup to your setup (small cubes, equiv. intakes, no N20, almost same cam, etc). You can't leave hard on your trans and rear. I give you credit for building a fun project, but it is going to take a better trans and a decent shot of N20 to get 9s with the parts you installed.
08-12-2010, 04:52 PM
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
I stopped reading Car Craft about 10yrs ago. That entire small cam to pass emissions is all BS. Much larger cams have been tuned to pass. On top of that he had massive amounts of dyno time to tune. They forgot to mention that if he had to pay for that time it probably would have totaled over $1000. Funny how even with "cheap" builds one important "expensive" part is left out. I laugh about the "dropping" in the engine. He went over every piece with a fine tooth comb. Read his original thread about measuring and installing bearings for the bottom end. He took his time to put the "right" ones in. He didn't just slap it together or drop it in.
From Marty himself on post #37: http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...901#msg1407901
I like that 224/224 on 114. I have thought about using it many times. You can't beat it for the price and the numbers work out well for a turbo cam. Your cam choice is good. For 9s with a 305ci I would have went low 230s though with a vic jr.
From Marty himself on post #37: http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...901#msg1407901
I like that 224/224 on 114. I have thought about using it many times. You can't beat it for the price and the numbers work out well for a turbo cam. Your cam choice is good. For 9s with a 305ci I would have went low 230s though with a vic jr.
Last edited by junkcltr; 08-12-2010 at 05:02 PM.
08-12-2010, 04:58 PM
#96
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
Hopefully she does okay, I'm really pulling for her. I just wanted to get back to basics, and get back to our hot rodding roots, and rather than just jump on the LSX bandwagon, lets try and make something out of nothing. Whatever she does run (and we all know she's going to blow up doing it lol), hopefully this will inspire others to take it even further....
How much do you have into this engine so far with cam, lifters, gaskets, etc?
Last edited by junkcltr; 08-12-2010 at 05:05 PM.
08-12-2010, 05:12 PM
#97
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
Plenty of people already in the 9s with bone stock LSx stuff.
08-12-2010, 07:00 PM
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Car: 83 Z28
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
Hopefully she does okay, I'm really pulling for her. I just wanted to get back to basics, and get back to our hot rodding roots, and rather than just jump on the LSX bandwagon, lets try and make something out of nothing. Whatever she does run (and we all know she's going to blow up doing it lol), hopefully this will inspire others to take it even further....
08-12-2010, 09:53 PM
#99
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Can It Be Done....
I think builds like these are fun. But we both know you are trying to just get one 9s pass. If you jumped on the LSX wagon you could do a lot more 9 sec passes before it came apart. Less work in the end. I think my next engine to replace the 355ci will be a LSX unless a ready to go 350ci is available cheap. If I did end up with another 350 sbc I would like to try the GM 222/222 on 114 cam old school along with all my other stock GM parts. I think it would be fun to try and hit 9s with a GM 350 with stock bottom end, cam, intake, and exh manifolds. Keep your GM all GM.........except for the turbos. Plenty of people already in the 9s with bone stock LSx stuff.
How much do you have into this engine so far with cam, lifters, gaskets, etc?
How much do you have into this engine so far with cam, lifters, gaskets, etc?
