well as most of u guys know ive done na v6's turbocharged ( both single and twin ) v6's

time for a new and totally custom project, i just scored a great condition 4-71 blower on ebay for 134$'s minus the front drive and rear bearing cover

but right now im bidding on a crager drive setup for pretty dam cheap so hopefully i score that, if not i can buy all new pieces from dyersblowers pretty damn cheap

the plan is to use a stock manifold base and modify it to mount the blower.

not sure how im going to adapt the drive pulley, but i will have to convert the v6 over to a vbelt setup so i can use the 3 inch drive belt,luckily i wont be stuck with a serp setup or vbelt on the blower.
the drive im bidding on is a 3inch wide cog setup and if that dont fit they do make a 2 inch drive system

i have 2 options here single 4bbl carb which i dont want to do im going to more then likley use a megasquirt ecm and a 4bbl tb ontop the blower with 6 incjectors under the blower.

anyways just though id share my new project, this will be making its way into an 88 rs once its complete

ill get some pics of the blower up soon as it gets delivered

 

Watching this!

 

what if you mounted it off the side like ford did with the 3.8?

 

i could if i wanted to but this is a real blower, not something like an m90 eaton
besides this looks much better then the blower hanging off the side of the engine

and for those curious cause i know the question is comming yes this blower will be overdriven, i see no point in installing a blower to underdrive it, unless of course u just want the looks , but thats really retarded.

i cant tell u how many guys i see with blowers that underdrive the hell out of them

 

Oh, I'm definitely SUB'D! Good luck with this!

 

thnx this should be fairly easy, the stock manifold base makes an excelent blower mount basically im going to box it in and weld on a flange for the blower to bolt down on .

the hard part is going to be getting the drivebelt to clear the waterpump, though i can always change to a standard rotation pump and us ethe same cog pulley on the waterpump and drive it off the blower belt

ill be ditching the power steering so the only v-belt i have to worry about maybe the wp and alt

if all else fails they do make a tripple v belt drive system but i think its kind of ugly and im trying to stay away from it , not to mention i dont think the vbelts will hold up with the blower being overdriven

 

Umm, in what car did they do that?

The SuperCoupes had the blowers mounted above the intake manifold between the heads, but inverted compared to say a GM 3.8L SC, so that the outlet was pointing up, and allowed for the use of an air to air intercooler.

 

thats what i was thinking about lol oops

 

... on top looks so much cleaner though.

GM 3.1 v6, w/m90 supercharger, ls1 throttle body, and megasquirt...

 

I can just see/hear the reaction now... Guy pulls in the spot next to you and wants the hood open to see the monster V8 in there...

"Dude, can I see that V8?" Hood is opened... "Wait! What?! That's a V6?! Holy crap!"

Watching...

 

Got a question. May be dumb as you all know im still new at boost. But, how hot will those intake temps get with a blower on top say running 10+psi of boost? I ask becasue im woundering if your going ATW intercooler, alky injec or E85. Knowing you im thinking you may go the E85 route??? Im not accustom to seeing E85 on carbs. Educate me on this if you can. Im use to seeing alky carbs at the track as alot of friends give me free alchohol anymore for my alky injection. They just like the lil V6 I guess. But in general, are E85 and methanol fueling set ups on carbs the same???

 

same mods to a e85 or methanol carb, the methanol carb needs a 30% larger jet to start with vs e85

im not going to go with a carb im sticking with fuel injection for sure.

im not willing to try to adapt an aftercooler to the bottom of the blower i wanna keep the thing as close to hoodline as possible.
instead i will be spraying methanol into the top of the blower

 

Would spraying meth in before the blower, sandblast the screws (rotors) in the compressor. I only ask because at work I mess wil screw compressors alot in Hvac. Liquid likes to cause a sandblasting effect sometimes if we get liqud, not vapor, returning to the comps.

 

not at all it would be the same as putting a carb ontop the blower.

it helps keep the rotors cool and it also makes the blower more efficiant

once my 4-71 gets here and i can verify the condition of the rotors and check the rotor clearanc ei may send the rotors out to have them machined for teflon strips.
the only downside to teflon striping the rotors is that it isnt meant for street use so id have to restrip the blower every x amoount of running time

in the alky dragster i think we used to put new teflon strips in every 6-8 passes

that was when we used a regular roots blower though once we changed to a whipple blower we had no more strips to deal with

i found a few places that make hi helix and screw rotors for the 4-71 but that are alot of money, but if this thing makes a ton of power i may opt to upgrade the rotors down the road

 

I see, thanks for the info.

What are some of the options for the boost? The plans of psi you want to go?

I have had to personally take out double helix rotors on a compressor a bit back, and they have strips on them but there not teflon, im not sure what exactly it was. But I know the strips cost some big bucks. They even have a slide valve that will unload the compressor to keep it as efficent as possible when there is no/or a low load on it. I actually think that some of the new screw comps for autos. may be implimenting the slide valve on new designs. It basically takes feed back form a controler/and its sensors and will control a dual set of sileniod that will contol the amount of oil pressure on the slide valve. Im sure as time goes on any automakers that havent went over to turbos will be using this set up.
But do keep in mind im talking about $100k+ compressors, so we dont do the rebuilding itself. Just the labor to get it there. Sorry some of this stuff isnt really related to your build, I dont wana clutter it up but its interesting to learn more about automotive screw comps since I work on big big screws every day.

 

boost is soley dependant on when the blower losses efficancy. im not afariad to hit the motor with 20+ psi but if the blower starts heating up the air really bad at say 12 psi well then there no point in spinning the blower any faster.

once u get to that point with a blower its either time to upgrade to the next size up or upgrade the rotors from standard rotors to say hi-helix or screw, and or teflon striping


yeah the strips are exspensive as hell, back in the shop we buy it it in 250ft rolls.
in the racecar trailer we had a rotating jib on the workbend that held the rotors and the roll was on a reel nexto it.

stick the rotor in the jig stick a pick in the strip and pul it out the end. wipe down the rotor spray alot of wd-40 on the rotor and some of the strip.
then stick the pick in the strip comming off the roll and pull it threw the groove in the rotorand then cut the strip off at the end of the rotor and trim as needed.

repeat for each strip in the blower then reassemble and check rotor clearances with feeler gauges.

we could restripe a blower in 15-20 mins

the newer m90s have a bypass valve so there is no drag from the blower at idle and very light throttle

 

this is what im doing for the fuel injection i will also drill and tap the stacks for methinjection nozzles

 

Hrrm, interesting notion. 4-71 is a pretty hefty piece of blower. Personally I'd still lean towards an M90,112 or 122. The biggest thing to me is they are a triple helix blower and I'd wager significantly more efficient than the traditional GMC design. The GenVs are assuredly more so as they are teflon coated, but they are also designed for street use unlike teflon strips. What about twincharging it instead of just a roots? May as well go crazy if you're going to go crazy. Something with a turbine that's over sized for the engine would be awesome, run the blower at about 7 PSI to get 250-300hp then ice the cake with a diesel turbo be it a TV series or something more streetable like a 7.3L powerstroke unit.

ED:for the alky on the top and TBs I'd almost look at a pair of Rochester 220s. Would be near 1000 CFM with some basic port work if you used 4.3L-350 ones.

 

the blower i won has 3 lobe 60* helix rotors.shoudl make much mor epower then an m90 and be more efficiant as well .
the 112/122 blowers are way to large to mount on the intake
the 4-71 is just about a perfect fit.

i thought about the tbi setups off the 4.3/350 but i want to keep this looking like an old school blown motor, so i want it to look like it has mechanical injection on it. depending on the hieght ill prolly put a hilborn scoop uptop

as far as twincharging i would consider it if i was going after tons of power but im really only looking to make between 275-350 rwhp. which will be plenty considering it will have off idle boost and be a tq monster

i havent decided on a cam yet but so far ive come up with 2 grinds just need to decide which one im going to go with

solid lifter 232/244@50 112*lsa .490/.510 with 1.5 rocker
or
solid lifter 244/256250 110 lsa .515/.525 with 1.5 rocker

and of course i will be building a set of long tube headers as pace setter shortys just aint going to cut it

 

Sweet project, i was going to add that TBI would be a good option for it.






Seems strange that no Fbody guys ever used the Fageol blowers, they seem like they'd work well on the iron heads.

http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthre...rcharger-Build

 

I'd like to know how this is possible. Especially, what is its efficiency?

 

4-71 displaces 284 ci per evolution
eaton m90 = 90 ci per revolution

u would have the spin the m90 super fast to get the same flow as the 4-71

the 4-71 is a pretty serious blower and could prolly make enough boost on a 3.4 to lift the heads off the block pretty easy,

as far as efficiancy rates im not to sure on it, im not to worried about it, i grew up working on blowers and if i feel the need i could machine the rotors for teflon strips , but i highly doubt id have to sinc eill be spraying the meth above the blower it will keep things nice and cool

 

well the blower drive ive been bidding on went up over 550 bucks which is a shame cause it came with all sorts of extras but im going to have to pass.

i can order a new drive snout from dyersblowers for 450 bucks
and drive pulleys are going to run me 135 bucks for the 3 inch wide glimmer driver
so a slong as i dont screw up the drive ratio it will be cheaper then buying the lot of ebay

on a side note they will machine the rotors and install the teflon strips for 200 bucks so if i decide to go that route hell with doing it myself 200 bucks is worth it to me not to have to deal with it

 

Thank you. The amount of air these things can move is impressive, true. I was just wondering if I'd missed some kind of new aftermarket add-on that made these blowers a lot more efficient.

I don't doubt you'll reach your power goal with that blower, especially with fuel-injection and meth-injection. These blowers have many nice homes on top of V8's, after all.

Still watching...

 

yup lol the 4-71 makes the m90 look like it was made to be put on a lawnmower lmao

im just trying to figure out what drive ratio i want to start with 1-1 will make some good boost i just need to figure out how much at redline and go from there, drive pulleys aint exactly cheap so i only wanna buy one set

 

This is VERY cool! I really like the looks of the throttle bodies. I'm looking forward to seeing the end result, especially the performance numbers!

 

thanks blower will should be here in the next 2-3 days, dont get to hung up on performance numbers though im doing this just to do it and for somethign to drive around day to day. when i want to go really fast ill just hop in my twin turbo iroc lol.

 

JEEZ, wish I had two wild F bodies to tear up the town! I'm still curious what kind of hp numbers this will make. Forgive me if you've mentioned it above, but what will you be using to tune the combo? I would assume you'll custom tune a chip, or will you use an aftermarket engine managment system?

 

i have no doubts it will make over 300whp hell 300whp is easy to get with a turbo build i dont see why a blower wont do the same.

i am expecting a ton more tq though

im going to do efi with a megasquirt ecm , i just cant decide if im going to go with an cop system or keep the distributor

 

went and checked my po box today and got a card saying theres a package waiting for me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! have to go back tommorow during post office hours and pick it up

 

 

Nice. Im watching

 

This will be an interesting build! Compared to turbos, you're gonna love the instant power - and torque you'll get when you hit the throttle. It should upset a lot of V8's on the street! (Except mine...maybe..lol..

 

Wasting your time Dave, you should just go LSX like everybody else in this gawd forsaken planet. I am kidding of course. Looking good do far...

 

You know the LSx is the only motor that should go in anything in the whole wide world!



Still watching...

 

late to the game but thats why I passed on the NOS Fageol supercharge kit I had for the 60*V6, looks neat in a pic, but is like a toy in person.

that one you got will look nice sticking out of the hood.
Need a extra large V6 bage on the rear, only thing their gonna see.

 

sub'd would still love to build a fast 6 someday

 

Could always add a turbo to it later. Should be plenty of room if going top mount. Then again, may be a bit over the top at that point.....

Any progress?

 

i got a sfar as cutting out the 1/2 aluminum plate for the adapter and mcking it all up. problem is i dont have a welder capable of welding that thick of aluminum and noone in town does either.i live in a really small town lol its about 2 miles long and 1/4-1/2 mile wide

i have to drive about 150 miles to get to a larger town that has a machine shop capable of welding up the adapter for it, so for now ive been focusing on my iroc when thats fully finished ill take the adapter over to the shop and have them weld it up for me

 

They underdrive them because an overdriven 6-71 at let's say 8 psi on a 383 8:1 creates a 12.4 compression ratio. Which can get ugly if not properly tuned or if 1 thing goes wrong. Now take that to 10psi overdriven, now your having to change fuels or add something to pump gas. Which most people don't want to, assuming we're talking street cars here. You don't see a point to keeping your engine together? I think a V6 with a blower on it seems to be just for looks. Being it certainly isn't for the awesome exhaust note nor the overall performance. Seems there is a trophy between the valve covers to me. But let's see what this thing runs when it does as I'm curious.

 

Get some DC+ aluminum rods for the ARC welder. Someone has to have a DC stick welder around town.

 

its not for looks this blower will make massive power on the 3.4, and cr with boost means nothing. my 3.1 has 9.0-1 cr and ive run over 20 psi of boost on it its never come aprat

my friend has a stick welder need to see if it has enough amperage to weld 1/2 inch aluminum plate. ive actually never stick welded aluminum before so ill have to try it out on some scrap

 

Lol @ cr means nothing. That number is an adjusted number with the boost included. Yeah, your probably right. I dunno why everyone isn't running 12:1 then boosting. I'm assuming your talking turbo boost at 20psi. But, 20 psi out of a T25 and 20 psi out of a T76 isn't the same.

 

ive been in the twentys with both a 60-1 turbo and a 76mm turbo on the 3.1, and i didnt say go out and run 12.0-1 then boost the hell out of an engine, i simply stated that engine is 9.0-1 cr and has seen into the twenty psi range safley on pump gas

my twin turbo iroc is 9.2-1 cr and will run 23psi from twin 57mm turbos just fine


ur new here so u just dont know all the stuff ive done or the kind of things i work on, but im no noob when it comes to boost. i was working on 3-5000hp blown alky and fuel engines before the majority of the ppl on this site even thought about driving

 

I'm not saying your a noob or anything. As I said, I'm curious as to how this goes for you. Just don't agree on what you think about underdriven blowers, there are good reasons for it. And what blower isn't for some type of looks?

 

I will get flamed, I know. And SixShooter, if you read this don't give me another of your V6 fanboy infractions.
Okay, here goes: If you are going to put a blower on an engine to, quote "make massive power", why not a V8? Just a friendly, curious question as to your choice of weapon.

 

cause its just another toy lol cant ever have enough toys

might have to build one of these for my next toy

 

since i posted about the blower in another thread figured id come update this i found somone semi local who can weld up the 1/2inch aluminum plate for me, going to drop off the plates after new years and should get the manifold and adapter plate back all welded up a few days later so mounting the blower is finally solved


now the next hard part , have to figure out how to adapt the drive pulley ( crank) to the factory stuff and clear the waterpump and other belts and still clear everything else

on a side note if anyone knows were to get a nitrous plate for a 4-71 blower let me know

 

intake manifold and adapater plates have been dropped off for final machining and welding should have them back in a week or 2

 

you sir, you inspire us all, your a gentleman and a scholar