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Coming along well sir. Been to damn hectic here for me to get a lot done.
I spent every waking moment of winter on my sled when we had snow. Gonna be like 80 degrees the next two days so I'm planning on using the bike.
But the car is almost done. It ran and drove before but the water pump leaked. I figure while I was in there redoing that, might as well change the brackets. I'm happy with the way it came out.
You picking up that 5.3 LS motor? I need room in the shop
The belt was coming off that smooth idler for some reason so I went with a 1/2" longer belt and ran an OE style idler.
It's close to the upper radiator hose but should be ok.
For some reason it's lean popping now on throttle in even with the blower belt off, so I don't know wtf that's about. The car was perfectly tuned in October.
Damn this section freaking slowed down while I was away lol. Joe, where does your Formy stand, anything new done to her? Get any runs in bro? I see Dave is still MIA, I might reach out to his uncle soon to see what's up with him and Utah, he could be back in New Jersey for all I know lol. How is that blower treating you...?
Damn this section freaking slowed down while I was away lol. Joe, where does your Formy stand, anything new done to her? Get any runs in bro? I see Dave is still MIA, I might reach out to his uncle soon to see what's up with him and Utah, he could be back in New Jersey for all I know lol. How is that blower treating you...?
- Rob
Hello,
I drove the car out of the shop in April, parked it, and have not looked at it since.
Had to do a few things on the Corvette, and since then have been spending my time on my speed boat and jet boat, bike, or women half my age.
I'll probably regain interest in it in the fall when it cools down.
I've kinda lost interest on the car since it's done. I enjoy the C4 more, even with the computer problems I had for a while (ended up being a bad IAC driver, damn GM ecms).
I'm thinking of selling the car, or parting it out if anyone is interested.
I don't have time to drive everything I own, and a thirdgen with a 3 speed auto, lopey cam, and no A/C isn't really making the cut.
I've kinda lost interest on the car since it's done. I enjoy the C4 more, even with the computer problems I had for a while (ended up being a bad IAC driver, damn GM ecms).
I'm thinking of selling the car, or parting it out if anyone is interested.
I don't have time to drive everything I own, and a thirdgen with a 3 speed auto, lopey cam, and no A/C isn't really making the cut.
-- Joe
You did all that work though Joe, don't you want to at least enjoy and see the results of all that labor? Truth be told I just pulled myself out of a financial mess that I put myself in these last few months, and will more than likely go the same route with something entirely different. But I still at least want to see what the car will do NA as well as with boost so I can close the door on the build for good. I hear you though, three speeds, lopey cam and no AC does not make for an enjoyable street car...
You did all that work though Joe, don't you want to at least enjoy and see the results of all that labor? Truth be told I just pulled myself out of a financial mess that I put myself in these last few months, and will more than likely go the same route with something entirely different. But I still at least want to see what the car will do NA as well as with boost so I can close the door on the build for good. I hear you though, three speeds, lopey cam and no AC does not make for an enjoyable street car...
Eh.. I dunno.. We will see what happens this spring. I bought a brand new Wrangler, and I've been kinda using that as a daily driver, beach vehicle, etc.
I drove the C4 twice this year. The I started the Firebird the other day, pulled it around. Runs good. I still need to install the new headliner and door panels. Maybe next month. Trying to get as much bike and boat time as I can before the weather turns crappy again.
"three speeds, lopey cam and no AC does not make for an enjoyable street car"
You guys are getting old. The no A/C does suck, especially in hot as hell Florida, but 3 speeds and a lopey cam should always put a smile on your face. Loud as hell mufflers I don't like anymore, so I added another muffler in the intermediate pipe to quiet it down.
It seems like you only like the 'build' portion of a project and not the 'end result/driving' portion. Nothing wrong with that, just need to move on to another 'project'. Or, wait until it cools down again and drive the car then.
"three speeds, lopey cam and no AC does not make for an enjoyable street car"
You guys are getting old. The no A/C does suck, especially in hot as hell Florida, but 3 speeds and a lopey cam should always put a smile on your face. Loud as hell mufflers I don't like anymore, so I added another muffler in the intermediate pipe to quiet it down.
It seems like you only like the 'build' portion of a project and not the 'end result/driving' portion. Nothing wrong with that, just need to move on to another 'project'. Or, wait until it cools down again and drive the car then.
You're probably right on all points.
I wish it was like a '67 firebird cuz then I could at least drive it to car shows, but nobody at the car shows wants to see a thirdgen, regardless of how fast it is.
I had intended on running at the track this year, but I just don't have the time.
I dunno. Maybe I'll drive it a little in the fall when it cools down. Like I said though, I haven't even been driving the Corvette lately.
Eh.. I dunno.. We will see what happens this spring. I bought a brand new Wrangler, and I've been kinda using that as a daily driver, beach vehicle, etc.
I can relate, we buy cars, clothes, etc based on our personalities. A Wrangler on the beach is awesome, but sadly I've stopped doing the beach thing a long time ago. I'm a big Atlantic City buff, but would never drive the GTA there when you see Lambo's and Porsche's rolling up to the valet lol. Although one time I took the GTA there when it was looking insane when the turbo was on a few years ago, and everyone there was like daaaaaaaamn lol. It was fun, and the valet's were running over to take it from me lol. But yeah, I'd still rather be in the Porsche when all is said and done. How much do you want for the vette Joe... if you ever sell it.
I can relate, we buy cars, clothes, etc based on our personalities. A Wrangler on the beach is awesome, but sadly I've stopped doing the beach thing a long time ago. I'm a big Atlantic City buff, but would never drive the GTA there when you see Lambo's and Porsche's rolling up to the valet lol. Although one time I took the GTA there when it was looking insane when the turbo was on a few years ago, and everyone there was like daaaaaaaamn lol. It was fun, and the valet's were running over to take it from me lol. But yeah, I'd still rather be in the Porsche when all is said and done. How much do you want for the vette Joe... if you ever sell it.
- Rob
I don't see a lot of Porche's around here. Most of the guys have Ferrari's and lambos, new corvettes, etc.
$6500 for the C4. Has new slotted/cross drilled rotors, optispark, water pump, alt, ICM, coil, fuel tank/pump, wires, plugs, intake gaskets, a brand new smoked top, and a PCM reflash.
See, that would be perfect for me, slap a S/C on her, stall speed (if auto, I forget if it's a manual or not), and tune her up with a custom exhaust. Now I want it, and my better half is going to kill me lol. Let me move some money around and see the best way to get her here, easiest would just be coming to get it, but you're definitely a hike from New Jersey...
See, that would be perfect for me, slap a S/C on her, stall speed (if auto, I forget if it's a manual or not), and tune her up with a custom exhaust. Now I want it, and my better half is going to kill me lol. Let me move some money around and see the best way to get her here, easiest would just be coming to get it, but you're definitely a hike from New Jersey...
I had to get a laser level and put it on the blower pulley then shine it on the rest of the pullies. Because of this I shimmed out the blower bracket with washers until i could line up the laser level just right. I used the laser level tool on the corvette forum here: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...right-way.html
You don't have to buy that tool, but can use a laser level from home depot for 15-20 bucks. Eyeballing it didn't work for me, have to use the laser level.
I had to get a laser level and put it on the blower pulley then shine it on the rest of the pullies. Because of this I shimmed out the blower bracket with washers until i could line up the laser level just right. I used the laser level tool on the corvette forum here: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...right-way.html
You don't have to buy that tool, but can use a laser level from home depot for 15-20 bucks. Eyeballing it didn't work for me, have to use the laser level.
lol they got frigin laser belt aligners now? Just put a straight edge on the face of the pulley and I can see if anything is off. My waterpump uses spacers, my supercharger uses spacers for the tensioner and I run aftermarket accessory brackets for the alt and PS pump and I use a billet mini PS pump pulley that I had to press on and align. A 30" aluminum ruler can have many purposes!
Do what you want, but i tried the straight edge myself and was still off on the alignment. When you put the laser level on the blower ribs and then rotate the blower pulley+level, you can see if the pulleys are not only out of alignment, but any side to side funky movement also.
Have to wait on it Joe, although I do want it, if I get that Corvette then the GTA has to go as per the boss lol. Can't really blame her, cuz for years I've been buying these two types of cars over and over again. Throw up some vids of the Formy if you can, it's been awhile...
That's a nice looking pulley. What brand and model #?
The water pump pulley is a March 6312 which is 6.250". They also make 6322 which is 5.250". I was tempted to run that one to get a little more flow out of the pump.
The supercharger crank pulley is a vortech 4MA018-061.
I fired it up today, bled the coolant system, and tried to get the belt to misalign. Seems good. I'm still waiting on some spacers to show up so I can put the blower back on.
Blower now is a double plate with spacers in between. Mounts to the head with 4 bolts. Hoepfully won't flex now.
Excellent work Joe, really want to see some videos when she has the hairdryer back on. Was hesitating about reusing the block off plate for the oil return though, but I might have to go that route again. Do you have a link to the company that sells them, as I'd rather not waste my time making another one. The last one was a tad too small anyway, so I'm glad I tossed it. Can't tell if you bought one or fabbed your own from the pic...
By the way I cannot believe you guys didn't comment on this freaking pic I posted weeks back. That is a young Pamela Anderson from Baywatch fame on the bottom left, and a young Bobbie Brown from Warrant's "Cherry Pie" video. Damn guys, what gives...
Excellent work Joe, really want to see some videos when she has the hairdryer back on. Was hesitating about reusing the block off plate for the oil return though, but I might have to go that route again. Do you have a link to the company that sells them, as I'd rather not waste my time making another one. The last one was a tad too small anyway, so I'm glad I tossed it. Can't tell if you bought one or fabbed your own from the pic...
- Rob
Hey Rob,
I made that one. Just welded a steel bung to it.
The car is running exceptionally well right now. But I do have an epic exhaust leak all of a sudden. Hopefully when the spacers come in next week I'll get the blower back on and buzz around a bit. I put the headliner in yesterday. Thing has been sitting in a box for 5 years haha.
The only thing now that needs to be done is the door panels. I riveted the brackets to the doors, and I have some GTA door panels but they are in kinda so/so condition. I'd like a new or mint pair but can't seem to find any in black.
Soo.. The only thing is, the studs being kinda long make it so no matter how much you tighten it you can still flex them a little bit and rotate the bracket a degree or so. Might cause the belt to lose a little tension at times. The spacers prevent it from becoming misaligned but it can rotate a hair...
I almost want to just make a bracket out of a block of aluminum and mill it, but that would be crazy.
By the way I cannot believe you guys didn't comment on this freaking pic I posted weeks back. That is a young Pamela Anderson from Baywatch fame on the bottom left, and a young Bobbie Brown from Warrant's "Cherry Pie" video. Damn guys, what gives...
Looks good. Are you attaching to the waterpump? That would help with some of the flex. Maybe fab up a bracket that angles up from the head that's long like a long T. Or a plate that triangulated the spacers half way to the head to help limit the Twist.
To me your bracket design acts like a long pivot and that's why your able to flex it. Decreasing the depth to the head or limiting the distance from the bolts/spacers to the supercharger to help decrease the leverage. Overall it might work fine and a spring tensioner would help keep tension during belt/bracket flex. Get it installed, test and enjoy the car!
Originally Posted by anesthes
Mockup.
Soo.. The only thing is, the studs being kinda long make it so no matter how much you tighten it you can still flex them a little bit and rotate the bracket a degree or so. Might cause the belt to lose a little tension at times. The spacers prevent it from becoming misaligned but it can rotate a hair...
I almost want to just make a bracket out of a block of aluminum and mill it, but that would be crazy.
Looks good. Are you attaching to the waterpump? That would help with some of the flex. Maybe fab up a bracket that angles up from the head that's long like a long T. Or a plate that triangulated the spacers half way to the head to help limit the Twist.
To me your bracket design acts like a long pivot and that's why your able to flex it. Decreasing the depth to the head or limiting the distance from the bolts/spacers to the supercharger to help decrease the leverage. Overall it might work fine and a spring tensioner would help keep tension during belt/bracket flex. Get it installed, test and enjoy the car!
The water pump has two threaded bosses on it. I can't reach it with the plates that the blower mounts to, but I could sandwich a plate in between them and bolt to the water pump as well. I wonder if that would kill all the flex.
I'm using 3/8" spacers between the two plates. The first plate is 1/2", the other plate is 5/16". I could pick up some 3/8" plate and connect the head bolts to the water pump basically.
Alternatively, I could ditch the 5/16" plate all together and replace it with a full 2nd blower plate that connects to all 4 head bolts and the two water pump bolts. I was going on the idea that plates with spacers between them were stronger than just plates doubled up, but perhaps that's not correct? This is based on what I've seen Vortech do on race applications.
The water pump has two threaded bosses on it. I can't reach it with the plates that the blower mounts to, but I could sandwich a plate in between them and bolt to the water pump as well. I wonder if that would kill all the flex.
I'm using 3/8" spacers between the two plates. The first plate is 1/2", the other plate is 5/16". I could pick up some 3/8" plate and connect the head bolts to the water pump basically.
Alternatively, I could ditch the 5/16" plate all together and replace it with a full 2nd blower plate that connects to all 4 head bolts and the two water pump bolts. I was going on the idea that plates with spacers between them were stronger than just plates doubled up, but perhaps that's not correct? This is based on what I've seen Vortech do on race applications.
-- Joe
i think bolting to the waterpump will help a lot. Should kill all the movement but maybe not the flex. Flex has to do with the rigidity of the material over the distance so your plate has to get thicker the farther it spans from the pivot point. You can counter that by also making a bracket that will attach to the blower back side and mount it to the head in a way on the header side to reinforce the back side. So it had to flex against that or pull it away/closer to the head. OE did this on the back side of the Ps pump in the LS truck bracket. Prob too much flex from the PS pump as it hangs off the front of the bracket and not attached to the block at all. It's a funny looking little bracket that ties the back of the pump to the block.
I think a single plate thay bolts to the water ohmo will act a lot stiffer as the pump is a heft peice of metal and it's surface area to the block is a lot more.
For what its worth my supercharger bracket is a lot like yours but it's a large 3/4" bracket that attached to the head via another 3/4" plate bolted to the head surface with spacers and then bolts through the waterpump via the LS tensioner. Effectly anchoring itself to the waterpump and thus the block.
warrant cherry pie was my jam growing up! Peggy had a body too!
Haha, they used Bobbie Brown a lot in that series, even Pamela Anderson. Bobbie was remembered for the supermarket scene, freaking smoking back then, and Pamela was remembered for the scene when Al kept dreaming about her and some other corporate chick separately, then finally at the same time lol. That show is awesome, I'm glad they still play it on cable. Still watching that and King of Queens, don't like the new crap they force down everyone's throats...
Soo.. The only thing is, the studs being kinda long make it so no matter how much you tighten it you can still flex them a little bit and rotate the bracket a degree or so. Might cause the belt to lose a little tension at times. The spacers prevent it from becoming misaligned but it can rotate a hair...
Joe, GM was concerned about the AC flex with the TPI serpentine system in the same way, what they did was bolt an additional thick bracket arm from the AC unit itself on the back of it to the exhaust manifold. This made the AC unit rock solid, as without it... it would wobble a tad at high RPM. A lot of supercharged guys did this to eliminate flex, but most of them routed the arm bracket to the plenum to hold it in place...
i think bolting to the waterpump will help a lot. Should kill all the movement but maybe not the flex. Flex has to do with the rigidity of the material over the distance so your plate has to get thicker the farther it spans from the pivot point. You can counter that by also making a bracket that will attach to the blower back side and mount it to the head in a way on the header side to reinforce the back side. So it had to flex against that or pull it away/closer to the head. OE did this on the back side of the Ps pump in the LS truck bracket. Prob too much flex from the PS pump as it hangs off the front of the bracket and not attached to the block at all. It's a funny looking little bracket that ties the back of the pump to the block.
I think a single plate thay bolts to the water ohmo will act a lot stiffer as the pump is a heft peice of metal and it's surface area to the block is a lot more.
For what its worth my supercharger bracket is a lot like yours but it's a large 3/4" bracket that attached to the head via another 3/4" plate bolted to the head surface with spacers and then bolts through the waterpump via the LS tensioner. Effectly anchoring itself to the waterpump and thus the block.
Ok, so I'm gonna ditch the 2nd 5/16" plate and replace it with a 3/8" plate that also bolts to the water pump. I triple checked the measurements and if I use 1/8" washers on the water pump bosses it's dead flat with the surface of the first 1/2" plate so this will work. So that would essentially be a 7/8" blower plate.
The only question is, is it stronger/more rigid to have spacers in between the two plates like vortech does, or just leave the plates doubled together? I assumed the spacers were to create some sort of truss but I'm not a mechanical engineer.
As far as bolting to the head as you guys pointed out, that's not possible due to the blower location and there is no threaded boss on the back side of the blower. I could run a steel bar from the top of the blower bracket to the top ear of the water pump, or the intake manifold, but the angle would be so severe I don't know that it would be much of a help...
I think this is going to work out pretty good.. I hope.
Bending moment (and the resultant deflection) is highly dependent on force times distance. I don't think your issue is the gap between the two plates. It is the distance between the head and the first plate. Hooking into the water pump should help a lot because it removes a lot of the distance.
Bending moment (and the resultant deflection) is highly dependent on force times distance. I don't think your issue is the gap between the two plates. It is the distance between the head and the first plate. Hooking into the water pump should help a lot because it removes a lot of the distance.
Do you think spacers between the two plates make it stronger or ? I've seen it done, and I'm not sure if they do it to make some sort of ladder truss connection or for looks lol.
For example:
Like is that better than me just having both plates butt against each other ?
I don't think it makes it stronger with the spacers. You are counting on friction at the joints to resist motion. You get higher friction by making things tighter, but you can only go so tight.
Also thinking about moving the head unit to pass side, seems easier to get cold air to the blower on that side......
Thanks!
I wish I could run the blower backwards and pick up cold air from the battery tray, but it's just not possible unless I shared the belt with the accessories. (which wouldn't support much boost I suspect). The C4 LT1 setup is like this but I think with a 6 rib belt and spring tensioner it slips after around 8psi. Doubt it would turn a T-trim at 50k.
Right now I just have the filter hanging out by the valve cover. It's hot when sitting at idle but when the car moves it's not too bad. FMIC also.
It's a ram-air II hood, so it gets a blast of fresh air while moving.
The passenger side though is good for belt room. I fit the 10 rib with zero problems. When I had the procharger on the driver side, even the 8 rib was tight by the radiator inlet.
turn the headunit forward would be nice but a really tight fit. Not sure It can be done without some major modifications, also the the crank pulley spacer have to be modified to get the 2 belts really close......
Joe, it doesn't have to be bolted to the face of the supercharger facing the engine, look at the picture I posted of the AC bracket and think of the same bracket that gets bolted somewhere by the cylinder head, but then rather than bolt to the face of the supercharger or back of the AC head unit, it will run under the compressor housing and bolt to the backside facing the radiator where there is plenty of places to bolt to. The end does a 90* turn up after running under the compressor housing. That arm bracket is not going to budge, and bolting it behind the supercharger on the engine side for support will give it more than enough leverage to not move, regardless how hard you spin it...
- Rob
Oh, and like I normally do for Dave, here is some inspiration. Get it done bro...
Haha, they used Bobbie Brown a lot in that series, even Pamela Anderson. Bobbie was remembered for the supermarket scene, freaking smoking back then, and Pamela was remembered for the scene when Al kept dreaming about her and some other corporate chick separately, then finally at the same time lol. That show is awesome, I'm glad they still play it on cable. Still watching that and King of Queens, don't like the new crap they force down everyone's throats...
Joe, GM was concerned about the AC flex with the TPI serpentine system in the same way, what they did was bolt an additional thick bracket arm from the AC unit itself on the back of it to the exhaust manifold. This made the AC unit rock solid, as without it... it would wobble a tad at high RPM. A lot of supercharged guys did this to eliminate flex, but most of them routed the arm bracket to the plenum to hold it in place...
- Rob
Bro. Are you Drinking when you post this stuff??? lol Meaning all the Al Bundy vids..
Bro. Are you Drinking when you post this stuff??? lol Meaning all the Al Bundy vids..
Haha, no not at all. I was teasing them and referring to them as old. The original pic was Al being surrounded by younger women, which is what Joe and another member were insinuating that they both do as well. It got carried away when I remembered it was Pamela and Bobbie in that pic, both were smoking when they were younger. But no, I wasn't drinking. Was an Italian kid from NYC, I drank so much wine growing up I think I became immune to alcohol by the time I hit my twenties lol.
04-08-2017, 09:08 PM
