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Vortech T Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Old 10-12-2015, 09:48 AM   #1
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Vortech T Trim build Winter 2015/2016

T-Trim, custom brackets
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Vortech T Trim build Winter 2015/2016-img_20151012_201013.jpg   Vortech T Trim build Winter 2015/2016-img_20151012_201144.jpg   Vortech T Trim build Winter 2015/2016-img_20151012_201153.jpg   Vortech T Trim build Winter 2015/2016-img_20151012_201245.jpg  

Last edited by anesthes; 09-03-2016 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 10-12-2015, 08:53 PM   #2
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

It'll be interesting to see how you go about this.
I've been thinking about going the blower route myself (in my quest for 11's in a 3600lb street chassis) and will be watching your progress.
Question: Intercooler?
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:31 AM   #3
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

Joe, Justin (Munks) was very successful running the Vortech with an enclosed carburetor (see vid below), making around the horsepower that you're shooting for. I remember when I was contemplating running a blow-thru years back, ran into a guy over at the track who was running a Vortech w/carb enclosure and vacuum secondaries if you can believe it, and worked like a charm. Took me for a ride around the pit area, and I was floored how well it worked with the vacuum secondaries. But that of course is on the cheaper side of things, if your going to go CSU, then run a carb hat no doubt...

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Old 10-14-2015, 08:34 AM   #4
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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You are right, but you guys seem to think I'm going to try and run it all out.

I have a 2 bolt main 400 block.. This thing will absolutely f'n explode at more than 700hp or so. Heck, I the crank might fall out of the block at 700hp... I'm going to run the blower underdriven way in it's efficient zone.

I'm not trying to run 9s.. I wanna run around 125-130mph in the 1/4. I could technically do that with a T-trim, but why not run an oversized blower pullied efficiently.

If it sucks ***, I'll trade it in for a smaller blower.

-- Joe
Youve got 400+ cubes, great heads, and a 1100hp capable blower. Its hard for me to imagine NOT wanting 9's. You could g 8s with that combo if you wanted.... lol. Just a block away.
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:38 AM   #5
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

Stock blow will hold a 9 pass. Not forever but could. Seen it happen
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:53 AM   #6
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Youve got 400+ cubes, great heads, and a 1100hp capable blower. Its hard for me to imagine NOT wanting 9's. You could g 8s with that combo if you wanted.... lol. Just a block away.
I think it's more about achieving his goal running a more efficient blower. If his goal is set at a 130-mph trap speed, he already said he could get there with a T-trim, but he wanted to try a larger more efficient blower first to see where it takes him. Larger blower will also make gobs more power under the curve with such an efficent engine being used to begin with...
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:54 AM   #7
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Do you have a plan on mounting the big one?
Yep. I have a couple of vortech plates, 3/8" thick. (stock are like 1/4").

Gonna weld up a spacer/mount to bolt it to the head. The big question is will it fit between the motor and the shock tower.

I have a 6" 10rib crank pulley and spacer. Probably run a 3" blower pulley which will put me at 41k rpm. 58k is max on this blower, and 50k is efficient max.

I'm probably going to switch to v-belts so I don't have to incorporate some crazy spring loaded tensioner for my accessories.


If all goes well, I'll probably hook up my 50MM wastegate to the blower and control it with my Megasquirt. That way I can control boost if I decide to pulley it more aggressively. Imagine a flat 12-14psi from 2k to redline.. That would be cool!

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Old 10-14-2015, 08:56 AM   #8
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Youve got 400+ cubes, great heads, and a 1100hp capable blower. Its hard for me to imagine NOT wanting 9's. You could g 8s with that combo if you wanted.... lol. Just a block away.
I'd be a card carrying member of the "I drove over my crank" club



I think we both know I'm going to blow it up eventually.. I have about as much self control as a fat kid in a chinese buffet..

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Old 10-15-2015, 10:44 AM   #9
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

sweet. should move some air. need to work through how to pull cold air into the blower intake if you have space down low to run a 5" intake pipe and filter. mine is on the driver's side and the power steering pump is in the way.
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Old 10-15-2015, 10:49 AM   #10
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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sweet. should move some air. need to work through how to pull cold air into the blower intake if you have space down low to run a 5" intake pipe and filter. mine is on the driver's side and the power steering pump is in the way.
The driver side blower mounting is dumb. I don't know why procharger and vortech do that.

You've got a radiator hose in the way so you are limitted in how wide of a pulley/cog you can go,

You've got brake booster and MC in the way so you can't run your intake tube into the fender.

You've got 90% of your accessories on one side of the motor, so you are loading your crank snout all in one direction.

By running the blower on the passenger side you have a lot more room for cold(er) intake ducting, plus if you run the battery on the drivers side you can stick an air/water intercooler in the passenger battery tray. Clock the housing so you turn 45 or 90* into the IC, then come out of the IC (top) and turn into the throttle body.

The only thing you have to relocate is the coolant overflow tank.

-- Joe
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Old 10-16-2015, 03:24 PM   #11
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

I cant wait to see this done..
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:47 PM   #12
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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....was very successful running the Vortech with an enclosed carburetor...
How fast was that particular combination?
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Old 10-17-2015, 08:21 AM   #13
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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use the thick felpro gaskets with the hsr and aftermarket heads
I ordered some 1266 gaskets, so should be in by mid week.


Was at the track last night (street night). Saw a hatchback, 4cyl, fwd thing run 147mph in the quarter. Holy crap!

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Old 10-17-2015, 10:15 AM   #14
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Was at the track last night (street night). Saw a hatchback, 4cyl, fwd thing run 147mph in the quarter. Holy crap!
... last time I was at the track there were some pretty fast 4 bangers. I'm no longer anti Import, I honestly enjoy anything that goes fast, especially when a good amount of work is put into it, and it shows. The sound can get annoying, but fast is fast.
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Old 10-18-2015, 05:04 PM   #15
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

I must have been drinking when I gasket matched this intake cuz it's a perfect 1205.

Not enough material to cover the 1206. In fact, the gasket had slid down a little bit into the runner of the head as it was. It needed to be brought back up.

So.. I dunno.

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Old 10-18-2015, 06:15 PM   #16
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

Well you can build up material on the intake with epoxy or screw/epoxy a aluminum piece thats contoured to the intake shape there to make up material. Or weld it
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Old 10-18-2015, 06:19 PM   #17
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Well you can build up material on the intake with epoxy or screw/epoxy a aluminum piece thats contoured to the intake shape there to make up material. Or weld it
I could weld it with the tig, but then I'd have to mill it. Not sure if my belt sander would get it flat enough.

Also risk of warping it when welding.

I dunno.

Thinking about what to do.

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Old 10-18-2015, 07:45 PM   #18
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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I could weld it with the tig, but then I'd have to mill it. Not sure if my belt sander would get it flat enough.

Also risk of warping it when welding.

I dunno.

Thinking about what to do.

-- Joe
take apicture of ur intake side wanna see how different it is from mine and the other recently purchased one , i posted pics witht he measurements in another thread and there was enough to go 1206
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Old 10-18-2015, 09:15 PM   #19
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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take apicture of ur intake side wanna see how different it is from mine and the other recently purchased one , i posted pics witht he measurements in another thread and there was enough to go 1206
You got a picture of yours after it was ported?

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Old 10-18-2015, 10:07 PM   #20
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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You got a picture of yours after it was ported?

-- Joe
unfortunatly i belive that was the only thing i didnt do/post , but ill dbl check and look threw my photobucket
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Old 10-19-2015, 07:09 AM   #21
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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unfortunatly i belive that was the only thing i didnt do/post , but ill dbl check and look threw my photobucket
This aint gonna happen. Take a look. I flipped the gasket over so you can see where the blue is in relation to the port.

Intake either needs to be welded, or I need to stick a victor jr on it and a carb

Actually, I've been looking at the quad injector 4150 throttle bodies lately. Kinda pricey, but I bet having the spray in the intake stream would work great with forced induction.

I don't wanna go back to a singelplane EFI intake, because all of the 1206 capable intakes are 6" tall, which gives me hood clearance issues.

-- Joe
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Old 10-19-2015, 07:15 AM   #22
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

Put a 1205 gasket on it and rtv around the port. It will be fine
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Old 10-19-2015, 07:29 AM   #23
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Put a 1205 gasket on it and rtv around the port. It will be fine
Not possible. I can fit a .005" feeler between the roof of the runner in the head and the intake. That's why I cut that gasket, to see what the mis-alignment was. The very top of the AFR 210 port is in the bottom of the blue.

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Old 10-19-2015, 07:39 AM   #24
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

Wow that intake is that short?!

Ok then epoxy a piece of 1/8" thick plate to edge of intake. Build up material and smooth it out. It will seal
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Old 10-19-2015, 07:42 AM   #25
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Wow that intake is that short?!

Ok then epoxy a piece of 1/8" thick plate to edge of intake. Build up material and smooth it out. It will seal
If I do that I'll weld it, but yeah, it's a thought.

I'll ponder it over the next day or so.

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Old 10-19-2015, 07:50 AM   #26
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

Weld may warp it. Epoxy is quick simple and easy
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:08 AM   #27
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

holy crap was that intake cut
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:18 AM   #28
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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holy crap was that intake cut
Here is what I think happened. The kid I bought it off of probably had issues with it hitting the valve covers. (I've seen a few complaints). He probably had the sides cut down a hair. or a few hairs.

I dunno. I may sell it and go a different route.

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Old 10-19-2015, 08:20 AM   #29
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

yup ur intake was ground or milled

compared to the second intake i bought look how much wider mine is then yours , mine doesnt have the bevel cut on the top

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Old 10-19-2015, 08:21 AM   #30
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

There isnt another route (unless buy another china copy that is 1206 if they do infact come 1206) if you cant get a single plane to fit and a blow thru carb isnt gonna help either with the hat, thats no different than a single plane.
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:25 AM   #31
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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There isnt another route (unless buy another china copy that is 1206 if they do infact come 1206) if you cant get a single plane to fit and a blow thru carb isnt gonna help either with the hat, thats no different than a single plane.
there is just enough room to do 1206 on an untouched china intake , unfortunatly they have been on backorder for some time now
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:27 AM   #32
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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there is just enough room to do 1206 on an untouched china intake , unfortunatly they have been on backorder for some time now
Still? Its been a few months now right?

Victor e efi is likely the shortest sp available. Consider that with a custom low rise but wide plenum elbow and it should work well
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:29 AM   #33
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Still? Its been a few months now right?

Victor e efi is likely the shortest sp available. Consider that with a custom low rise but wide plenum elbow and it should work well
yeah as far as i know they are still not available but i havent checked jegs or speedmaster lately to see if they are back in stock
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:31 AM   #34
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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There isnt another route (unless buy another china copy that is 1206 if they do infact come 1206) if you cant get a single plane to fit and a blow thru carb isnt gonna help either with the hat, thats no different than a single plane.
The singleplane 1206 intakes are all over 6" tall.

A vic jr 1206 is under 5" tall.

I've got a ram air 1 hood, which I believe is a 2 " or so cowl. I'd have to measure again but. It would work with a turbonetics hat, or even a low profile ATI hat.

I'm really thinking about trying one of those EZ style throttle bodies with 4 90lb injectors, but they are $700..

-- Joe
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:33 AM   #35
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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yeah as far as i know they are still not available but i havent checked jegs or speedmaster lately to see if they are back in stock
I checked last week. I'm not sure what the deal is. They have been saying a few weeks since last Feb..

Maybe they are not making them anymore.

-- Joe
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:35 AM   #36
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

I would not advise that injection. Its no better than tbi. Shower injectors high up in runner like that do tend to work well for peak hp in complex efi systems but those systems also have port injectors. They dont run well everywhere else so thats why the port injectors are there

I see that being same as tbi and never seen anyone make decent power with a tbi

Have a vic jr converted to efi
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:42 AM   #37
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Curiously, how is yours running since you switch from blow through carb to megasquirt HSR ?

-- Joe
I still have a few things left to figure out and do some more tuning. I have been thinking of redoing the hot side and selling off my current hot side setup. I also just converted to dual in tank fuel pumps over the weekend.



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Old 10-19-2015, 08:42 AM   #38
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ View Post
I would not advise that injection. Its no better than tbi. Shower injectors high up in runner like that do tend to work well for peak hp in complex efi systems but those systems also have port injectors. They dont run well everywhere else so thats why the port injectors are there

I see that being same as tbi and never seen anyone make decent power with a tbi

Have a vic jr converted to efi
The TBI with the pod in the middle causes airflow issues.

But a wet intake is ideal with forced induction over a dry batch fire intake.

Sequential injection would be the best, but I'm not running sequential port injection.

I'd love to see some dyno testing though.

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Old 10-19-2015, 08:46 AM   #39
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-CFM-415...BWHYK2&vxp=mtr


cheap

they do need a few mods though for good driveability

Last edited by project89; 10-19-2015 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:49 AM   #40
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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The TBI with the pod in the middle causes airflow issues.

But a wet intake is ideal with forced induction over a dry batch fire intake.

Sequential injection would be the best, but I'm not running sequential port injection.

I'd love to see some dyno testing though.

-- Joe
Batch fire does fine job. Idk if a wet flow intake is as good or better. That would depend on how well distribution of air fuel is inside the system. You would need individual cylinder sensors to determine all that
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:53 AM   #41
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Batch fire does fine job. Idk if a wet flow intake is as good or better. That would depend on how well distribution of air fuel is inside the system. You would need individual cylinder sensors to determine all that
The fuel atomizes better and takes a lot of heat out of the air charge.

Ever notice that the TBI and CARB blow through guys always seem to get away with more boost without intercoolers?

Also why OEM started going to composite intake manifolds, to combat air temp in port EFI.

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Old 10-19-2015, 09:03 AM   #42
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

It depends on the fuel. Carb guys on pump gas still cant run alot of boost. E85 is an alcohol that has high heat latency and can cool charge effectively so the blow thru guys do well on that stuff. Efi guys run well with it too without coolers. Wet flow cools but how well cant be determined easily because nobody has a temp sensor in the head runner before the valve to know whats goin into chamber

I'll take efi driveability tuning over any tbi or blowthru system


And composite manifolds may be cheaper and easier to produce vs aluminum. I dont buy the argument 100% that they do it for efi intake airtemps. If they did worry about air temps some of the oems would make better effort on air intake box and filter locations.... I have seen some oem filters picking up heater heat and seein 170 deg at idle
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Old 10-19-2015, 09:12 AM   #43
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

oem does it for cost and wieght savings
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Old 10-19-2015, 10:04 AM   #44
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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I'll take efi driveability tuning over any tbi or blowthru system
Injector at the top of the runner, or 3" away at the top of the flange doesn't matter. It's still EFI.

Unless you are running sequential and can adjust your trim on a per cylinder basis, there is zero difference in drive ability.

I don't want to make this the focus of this thread, since the focus should be on the blower.

Composite intakes cost 3x as much as aluminum castings. It's not a cost thing for OEM. Look at the ford racing stuff.

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Old 10-19-2015, 10:14 AM   #45
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Injector at the top of the runner, or 3" away at the top of the flange doesn't matter. It's still EFI.

Unless you are running sequential and can adjust your trim on a per cylinder basis, there is zero difference in drive ability.

I don't want to make this the focus of this thread, since the focus should be on the blower.

Composite intakes cost 3x as much as aluminum castings. It's not a cost thing for OEM. Look at the ford racing stuff.

-- Joe
Do some more research on efi injector placement. It DOES matter lol

The build now depends on your intake since the current one will not seal properly. Balancing clearance issues with functionality with efi system as well as cost is the issue with most builds
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Old 10-19-2015, 10:17 AM   #46
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Do some more research on efi injector placement. It DOES matter lol
Not when you are firing the injector at a closed intake valve...

Now with that said, I'm probably going to tig the manifold and send it out to get milled since that's the cheapest option and I just want to finish this POS so I can work on one of my corvettes.

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Old 10-19-2015, 10:23 AM   #47
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Not when you are firing the injector at a closed intake valve...

Now with that said, I'm probably going to tig the manifold and send it out to get milled since that's the cheapest option and I just want to finish this POS so I can work on one of my corvettes.

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Well get the throttle body injector thing and let me know how it works out for you. Only trying to help lol need to get scott clark in here
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Old 10-19-2015, 10:32 AM   #48
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Well get the throttle body injector thing and let me know how it works out for you. Only trying to help lol need to get scott clark in here
It's $700.. That's a lot of money just to try something.

I can tig the intake tonight, and probably spend $100 getting it milled. This is assuming it doesn't melt when I hit it with the torch...

Or I can sell the AFR210s and go back to 195 heads, but that's probably not a great idea.

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Old 10-19-2015, 11:13 AM   #49
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

Can you buy a 1/8" or so thick alum flat bar and screw it on across the top? Dont underesimate the power of epoxy as well. Combined with a screw its very effective. I did this in my heads
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Old 10-19-2015, 11:55 AM   #50
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Re: Vortech J Trim build Winter 2015/2016

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Can you buy a 1/8" or so thick alum flat bar and screw it on across the top? Dont underesimate the power of epoxy as well. Combined with a screw its very effective. I did this in my heads
Hrmm.. I'll look at it when I get home.

I don't like using epoxy. Used it on a lot of boats years ago. Sometimes were successful, sometimes it would come off.

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