Hi, so this is my first time posting anything other than a "WTB" ad. I just bought a beautiful 87 Z28 with 105k miles for $3500. And since I have a few hundred left over and this car needs little to no work done to it I was thinking of installing a nice sound system. However I don't know anything about audio systems, and I was wondering if any had any good suggestions. I was thinking about getting a Kicker subwoofer, but not entirely sure thats the best idea. The car is a T-top so I don't know how much room i have to sacrifice for this. Thanks for any tips.

 

I am in the process of doing this upgrade to my Z28. My car is also a T-Top, and you would be surprised at all the possibilities you'd have. Just do a search (I'll give you a hint a good way to really narrow down your search here is to use the advanced search function and select titles only).

People have installed subs into the rear well, spare tire area and even the rear glove box. There is even a guy on this forum right now doing a mod by putting an 8" sub into each sail panel vs a 6x9 speaker.

You do have some great options as far as speakers go. Personally, for speakers I prefer boston acoustics. I got a set of 4x6 plate speakers for the dash which drop right in. For the sail panels, I'm thinking a set of SR95's. As far as prices go, if you have patience and know the right places to look, this can be done for a fraction of what you think it could be. Here is what I spent on my setup:

Jensen VM9512HD - $98 shipped on ebay (I actually took a gamble with this one. It was being sold in an "as-is" ebay auction untested. I received it with all the accessories in mint condition and there was nothing wrong with it).

Kenwood KAC-749S Amplifier - $75 from a local pawn shop.

Boston acoustics 746 4x6 plate speakers - $75 from an ebay seller; brand new

Boston acoustics SR95 6x9 speakers - $125 new from amazon (Still have to purchase these)

Kicker KS13 tweeters - $50 new (Still have to purchase these. I have a set of door panels from a manual window car but my car has power windows. So these will be used to fill the holes in the panels. They will be used only for fill and will be driven straight off the head unit).

Monster XLN 4 channel RCA cable 4C-5M - $20 from ebay (These are liquidated stock so they won't last forever).

Monster XLN-16S 50' spool of speaker wire - $17 from ebay.



All of these items were bought brand new with the exception of the head unit and the amp. As for subs, kicker seems to be among the best when it comes to low frequency reproduction. Don't believe all the hype about watts. What counts is quality. My amp only puts out 40watts a channel in 4 channel mode but trust me that gets LOUD. There is an article in the technical articles section written by Jim85IROC on this specific subject, and I am sure some more people here will chime in.

And for god sake, please do the install PROPERLY! A PO once had a system in my car and the remnants of it are just horrible. Cheap coat hanger wire and butt/crimp connectors everywhere! I am using professional grade wire and soldering all connections; even wire to speaker.

 

HEY, i use butt connectors on a few wires like my speaker wires...doesnt mean you didnt install it right, or installed the ******* way, its just the way someone wants it.

 

It is up to you whether or not you want to use butt connectors, but no offense they are a poor and lazy way of doing things. Butt connectors have a tendency to do all kinds of yucky stuff. Including but not limited to the following:

- Making it easier for a wire to short (If you happen to wrap the connector this will eliminate this possibility; my PO didn't)
- Coming loose/off
- Corroding
- They provide an inadequate contact area compared to a solder joint


The proper way to do things is to solder the wires and insulate the solder joint with shrink wrap.

Odds are you can use butt connectors and get away with it perfectly fine. But they are such a 50/50 way of doing things I feel obligated to point it out.

 

There's really no evidence to support that a solder connection is better than a crimp connection. All of the factory wiring in your car? Crimped. Airplanes? Crimped. Boats? Crimped.

 

Crimped connections provide adequate enough current transfer for general use. But consider how a crimp connector just kind of squishes everything together while a soldered connection envelopes 100% of the contact areas together.

Am I going a bit overkill here? Yes. Is there anything wrong with having a quality obsession in your work? No.

 

A proper set of crimpers will cold weld the connection. Heating causes oxidation and oxidized metals have a higher resistance. I wouldn't call spending more time on an inferior connection overkill or quality. Sure, there are times when a soldered connection is better but in your car isn't one of them.

 

The tip of a 15 watt soldering iron can reach a maximum theoretical temperature of 1050F (565C). But also keep in mind that it largely depends on the amount of time you expose the material to this level of heat. Notice the next time you tin the tip of your soldering iron how it takes several minutes before the solder turns from that bright shiny silver color to more resemble oxidized aluminum. The 5 seconds it takes to join a solder joint will not make a difference. You would have to hold the iron to the copper wires for long enough to completely melt the insulation before a sufficient amount of oxidation forms.

Also, it is too bad that all the connections inside your amp, speakers and head unit are SOLDERED because it is an inferior connection that causes poor contact due to oxidation, right? Remember, a system of operation is only as strong as It's weakest link.

The first time I installed my head unit, I used a professional crimp and crimped the hell out of them TWICE on both ends. When trying to stuff the wires inside the dash to mount the HU, one of the butt connectors ripped right out and another broke a wire because it flexed so hard against the hard plastic jacket of the butt connector where the wire fit in.

Also, when metal becomes oxidized the solder will not bond with it so that debunks your theory or we would not even be on this topic in the first place

And next time, please think your facts through before posting.

 

That's a great story and I'm sure you'll tell it to your grandchildren some day but I see little in the way of facts but lots of speculation. Just because you think something is true doesn't make it a fact.

Really? Now you're just being ridiculous, we're talking about wires here, not pcb's and electronic components. It's not exactly practical to crimp the components inside your HU or amp.
Great, you did a crappy job and had crappy results. Notice I said proper crimp which obviously yours were not.
Dude, please stop before further embarassing yourself.

 

im sorry...but this is actually kinda funny ca90ss you get an A+

 

This statement alone proves your ignorance, thank you. You know EXACTLY what I was getting at, you just continue to post mindless banter in an attempt to support your theory and keep the debate going. It is people who think like YOU which is the reason these cars are in such **** poor condition when we buy them; butt connectors, duct tape and 2x4 seem to be a common fix.

Evilemokid, you have no say in this since your statement is biased because you use butt connectors.

Now, can we PLEASE get

The OP made this post trying to learn how to properly configure a good setup, not get his post locked

 

No I don't know what you were getting at other than your complete failure to grasp simple concepts.

I really don't know why I bother, it's an endless debate that's been around longer than I have just like people who believe amplifiers have sound quality and I don't see either side backing down any time soon. Anyways, I'm done. Sorry to the op for letting myself get dragged into this nonsense and cluttering up your thread. Good luck with your search.

Where did I say anything about degrading sound quality?

If you go back and read the thread you were the one who shoved your opinion down everyone elses throat in the very beginning.

 

Back on topic, please. This isn't a discussion on solder vs butt crimp and the arguing isn't helping the OP. If you want to argue about it go create another thread.

 

By claiming that a solder joint is a poor transfer of electricity due to oxidation and will degrade sound quality is rather an absent minded statement since all of the connections inside an electrical component are soldered. If your theorized superior butt connector connection provides good transfer, than the soldered components will only once again degrade this transfer. Like I said, It's only as strong as It's weakest link.

I was simply trying to help guide the OP on the clean way to do the install. You dragged yourself into this by trying to shove your opinion down my throat.


EDIT: Sorry Amorget I was middle of writing that when you posted. But I'm done now.

 

While I am very thankful to FireDemonSic for his [first] reply, and I do mean that I have a good idea as to how I am going to go about setting up my car's sound, I am rather annoyed/dissapointed that my post has 13 replies, and only ONE dealing with my question (arguably). If anyone does have any more advice referring to my question please speak your mind I am all ears to ideas.

 

To the OP, it would be a little easier to help you if you more clearly defined your goals. What's your budget? Are you just looking to add a sub or are you looking to upgrade the entire system? If looking to upgrade the entire system will you be mounting the speakers in the factory locations? Will you be amplifying them with a separate amplifier or running them off the headunit power? What kind of features are you looking for in a headunit (Bluetooth, ipod etc.)? Without knowing exactly what you're trying to achieve it's hard to make any recommendations.

 

Yoseph, I forgot to mention that it would be worth investigating dropping a set of 6.5's into the dash. This can be done with a little bit of modification. I kinda wish I had taken this route myself.

 

Ok I am sorry for not posting more information. Most likely be running them off the headunit power, and I am not buying a new headunit because the PO left a new Alpine unit in the car (not sure why he got a new stereo but didn't replace the worn out speakers). As far as budget I am hoping not to break $400. I am looking to upgrad the entire system, best senario I get two speakers in the front and a sub in the back.

 

That is a great idea, drop two speakers into the dash and have a 10' or 12' sub in the back. However I don't know how much work it would be to do 'a little bit of odification', and consideing I'm doing alot of the work to make my car MD inspection friendly myself I was hoping to get ideas from people and having it installed by someone else. I can fix parts of my car but I'm nervous about modifying stuff like that, rather have a professional do that part.

 

Thought I should add this, I'm not looking to wake up the neighbors and show off the sound in parking lots, I do alot of roadtrips with friends and want a sound system that compliments the idea of flying down the highway with the T-tops down.

 

I haven't looked it up in detail, but it involves some minor trimming. Try searching the audio forum there is LOADS of info on the swap.

Also, there is no shame in powering your speakers of the head unit. I ran mine like that for 2 years and frankly they sounded great. But it got to a point where I wanted more, just like with an engine. You too might get to that point someday and will have to re-engineer your setup. I would consider this first.

Low frequencies especially need an amp to really bring them out. But if you are running the speakers off the head unit and a sub connected to an amp you probably won't have this problem.

 

It's important to note that "flying down the highway with the T-Tops down" tends to overpower the speakers when they are being driven off only the head unit. When you are in the car with the windows rolled up and the tops on a head unit powered system is fine for most cases, even with the windows down. But traveling at high speed with the windows down and tops off will sweep alot of that sound away.

 

I am very well aware of this, my brother has a..... *sigh* mitshubisi eclipse convertible ... so I know all about having the tops down and their impact on sound. I was hoping, however, that the t-tops being down would be much less than a full blown convertible.

 

Not at all. I have a T-Top car as well and the only difference between a vert and the T-Tops is the T bar. That thing isn't going to do a whole lot for sound encasement.

 

As far as subs on a budget I really like the JBL Gto's. They sound good, don't require a ton of power and work well in a reasonably small enclosure.
http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-GTO1014D-CAR...item2a0bd51712

As far as speakers that's really a matter of personal preference so you should really go out and try to listen to some yourself and see what you like. Personally I've had pretty good luck with the JBL power series
http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-Power-P-6452...item27b6af7cd7

http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-P963-6-X9-30...item43a227d03c

For the sub amp something around 200-400w should be fine. You don't need to spend a ton of money on it, just try to stick with a reputable brand. Maybe something like this although you may try looking on your local craigslist first

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cadence-Xenith-X...item43a33c9bb3

So far that's $324.95 which leaves $75.25 for enclosure and wiring. If you want a quick, cheap, easy and lightweight subwoofer enclosure you can make one out of sonotube. You should be able to build one for $20 in under an hour. If you want a little more efficiency you can port the enclosure. That should leave you with about $50 which is more than enough for wiring and any other install accessories you may need.

Sonotube enclosure

 

If you're unsure, try running the speakers off the head unit first to see if it's loud enough. Then add an amp and subs later (ie - when you get more funds).

Some 4x6's and 6x9's sound pretty good...especially JBL and Polk.

That being said the JBL GTO 10" sub is a powerful little monster.

 

I made a custom sub box for the back hatch where it dips down. You get your sub(s) and an amp and run the wires under the door jams to the stereo. And the power wire runs the same way except up through the dash on the passenger side to the battery. U can check out mine in my pictures!

 

I was going through your album and while I do like the set up I was wondering where it is you put your t-tops?

 

I put em under the box or on the backseat

 

So I got my 1987 Chevy Service Shop Manual and I was flipping around in it and found out how to remove my dash, and from what the book says replacing the speakers should be as easy as removing the dash taking out the old ones and placing the new speakers in, and from what I have seen on other threads 6x9 should be fine for the dash. However if I do that I don't know how to run the power of the amp instead of the headunit...

 

Is your head unit stock or aftermarket?

 

Aftermarket, I believeits Pioneer, its fully loaded. Don't understand by the PO bothered with putting in an aftermarket stereo but not touch the actual sound quality of the car. And sorry to be asking soo many questions, this is my first real car that I've looked into repairing and modifying.

 

No prob man. What you are gonna do is get yourself a good amplifier. You have to run RCA cables from the pre-outs on the head unit to the amplifier and then the speakers hook directly to the amp. Where you want to place the amp is up to you. I am placing mine on top of the gas tank, but if you do this you have to make sure that it is covered by the cargo blind because this will attract thieves.

I bought a set of monster XLN RCA cables off ebay. The part number is 4c-3m and they are only $20 because they are liquidating them for the new line of cables (basically same thing except with a new model number). 3 meters = 10 feet and will be more than enough to go from the head unit to the gas tank.

 

This is my plan (which I already ordered the first part of it so I'm sticking to it as of right now):

1. Dropping a set of JL 4'' speakers into the dash and running them off the headunit to start. (the front speakers are the ones that really need replacement that's why I'm starting there)
2. Once I find a good tutorial on how to hook up an amp, (which the only think I don't know how to do is how to get the wire from the battery into the interior) find a four channel amp to place in the dip of my trunk.
3. Order a set of 6.5's to drop into the sails and run off the amp. (and most likely keep the 4''s on the headunit, I see no reason to bother with the wires to get them onto the amp)
4. Further down the road hook up a 10'' or 12'' sub to drop in my trunk and run that off the amp.

 

This might help

http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/caraudio.asp

 

really? youre wrong buddy. i work in an audio shop and we use butt connectors for everything, theyre easy to use and they last, its when people pigtail wires together and put e tape on them thats the lazy way, if you really wanna solder each and every wire then have a freakin blast, i did it once and its a pain in the butt to t-shoot them. and if youre connectors have the possibility of a short then youre doing something wrong.

to the OP Theres alot of possibilities, the above mentions 8" mod isnt suggested for you, thats Al's new project and it would take a lot more than what you wanna put into it, you can get a nice higher end set of speakers for the fronts and rears, a 4 channel amp and a monoblock, and either 1 or 2 subs, i have 1 type R 12" and it hits plenty hard, you can either build a box or use a pre fab one off ebay, id suggest re sealing it before using it though...OR you can do a baffle board, normally thats what people with camaros want us to do, theyre cheap, easy, and you can still use your t top bag, im just not a huge fan of them, theyre cheap bass

as for your plan you will want to amplify the fronts and rears at the same time. if not you will need to fade the crap out of the speakers to get the sound to level out, if youre worried about running wires then you need to rethink what youre getting yourself into, also the sail panels call for a 6x9, not a 6.5, it will work but theres no real gain to swapping the sizes.

for the amp its a matter of drilling a hole, putting a grommet in, then feeding your wire through and hiding them its all very cut and dry, in your previous post you said 6x9's in the dash....no lol those need to be 4x6's or the mod mentioned above

whats the model number of your alpine? some come with 3 preouts but the lower end like the CDA-100 only comes with a front and a SW output, if you really want to have good sound that can be heard with the t tops off i would suggest a full install, 4 channel for the speakers, run the individual wires for the speakers to the amp, and then a sub/monoblock, i had 4 polks running off the HU and i had to have the sound on my deck up to around 50 out of 60 to hear with the tops off, and it was lame at best, after my DB drive amp, i need it about 35-40 depending on the song to make my ears bleed.

just set a goal, make it happen DO NOT be afraid to run the wires, its really easy, the dash you pop the pad off, use like a coat hanger or a huge ziptie to run from underneath the dash up, and tape it to the wire, pull it down and you have just run your wires. My biggest concern is you want loud music and clear sound to keep up with the t tops being off, now you reaaallly need to run the wires to an amp and call it a day, the rears are soooo much easier than the dash and its well worth the work make sure you do not run your speaker wires next to your power wire/ rcas, normally id say screw it but ive noticed our cars produce engine noise a lot easier than newer cars.


good luck!

 

Really? Why don't you mentioned said audio shop and I will be sure not to go there buddy.

I suggest you carefully re-read the first handful of posts. This topic has already been covered to the point a moderator had to step in. I created a dedicated topic to it in electrical. Go check that out.