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I had an uncle, who's buddy was clicking off 10.69s at 476 in a stock Berlinetta. Only mods were the air cleaner lid was flipped upside down.
You are mistaking, because I believe your uncle's buddy was also running the 160 degree thermostat w/out altering the stock bin mod, which in itself gives 100 horsepower through eyewitness testimony. Pretty sure he trapped 496 that day...
You are mistaking, because I believe your uncle's buddy was also running the 160 degree thermostat w/out altering the stock bin mod, which in itself gives 100 horsepower through eyewitness testimony. Pretty sure he trapped 496 that day...
- Rob
Dang it, you are right. But I KNEW there would be verification witnesses!!!! It was out at "P-Diddy industries" drag strip.
We used to ice our TPI plenums at the track before runs and I doubt it helped any. We would gut the filter boxes, delete cats, run aftermarket chips. My 305 auto ran a best of 14.76 which I thought wasn't bad for a 305 with 2.73 gears. It would barely shift into 3rd as I crossed finish line. Lol. I love the TPI systems on these cars they look so good.
It be worth about a tenth on my car in back to back testing
Did you know that with every additional coat of Zaino you shave about a 5th of a second? You just keep adding coat after coat, and pretty soon you'll be required to have a roll cage and a professional NHRA driver's certification.
Why do some people after all these years not understand torque multiplication through gears?
Herein lies the problem, because it is you who doesn't quite understand how torque is physically measured. It's more than just rotational speed in terms of gearing, calculated horsepower (torque) needs to be sufficient enough through air and fuel volume which is what gives you your rate of acceleration. You can't just apply transmission gearing that may have the potential to increase torque by X without providing the power in front of it to meet Y. Gearing is a balance of an engine's RPM power band, you don't just pick one through word of mouth, you need a proper dyno to select gearing or stall speed. One transmission is not really better than another, it's just more tailored to a particular engine's characteristics. A 305 with a five speed is just as quick as a 350 with automatic because the shift points in the automatic are flawed, and stall speed is way too low (1500 factory stall speed), and I won't even get into the RPM limiters and other detriments in the bin. That doesn't make the 5 speed better, it makes the 700R4 hindered. In the end power wins, everything else can be balanced out to meet the same objective, regardless of one's gearing over the other's...
A 305 with a five speed is just as quick as a 350 with automatic.
- Rob
Nice... will remember this. And that is not true. The G92 L98 car was quicker.
Simple facts... less parasitic loss in a manual of this era. Better Gear multiplication, and I said nothing in those statements about being faster in a 1/4 mile or 0-60, 0-100 or anything.
Nice... will remember this. And that is not true. The G92 L98 car was quicker.
Simple facts... less parasitic loss in a manual of this era. Better Gear multiplication, and I said nothing in those statements about being faster in a 1/4 mile or 0-60, 0-100 or anything.
You didn't have to say anything specific, the statement about the overall affect of torque multiplication somehow being the gospel truth did, This is one of the reasons I tend to stay away from these arguments, because they are parroted over and over again. Gear change whether trans of rear, tire size, stall speed, shift points, everything has a cause and effect. There is a reason why 1/4 mile calculators only really factor weight and horsepower to determine an approximate et and trap speed without getting into gearing, the assumption is that they are already where they need to be. A 305 with a five speed, an L98 from an F-Body without a Corvette servo, an L98 from a Y-Body with a Corvette servo, you see they are all balanced to meet the GM objective. To argue about them and compare is a waste of time. By the way you also inferred carbs as being detrimental, you didn't say it, you implied it. Carbs w/power-glides still hold their own, and yes they may not make any more power over fuel injection.... but they certainly don't make any less..
- Rob
Last edited by Street Lethal; Jul 30, 2018 at 04:47 PM.
Been on vacation and away... this has been a fun read.
What is so magical about SLP's 1-3/4" headers versus the rest?
The answer is that we seen it on the Dyno. We seen what these cars can do. For instance, we dynoed an 89 GTA TA with just Dyno Don Headers(which are 1 3/4in tubes), dual 2 1/2in cats and Magnaflow 3in cat -back. Before the tune it made 241whp, after tune it made 251whp. The owner of the car is ItsMikey on TGO. The fact is we Dyno and we test.
SLP 1 3/4 Headers are the only large tube headers that were on the market in that era. The construction of the headers had the best performance exhaust flow than all other shorty headers. They made overall more power. They were very expensive $650 while all others were around $400. I bought mine for $450 when the price came down from SummitRacing in 1999. If you look at my picture of my headers I posted above, they are modified with 2 3/4 ball-n-socket flange. Stock s 2 1/4in. Dyno Dons Headers are 2 1/2in but he will put 3in flange apron request at no additional cost but you will need to have a custom 3in piping from headers back. So in short, I have a lot more smoother exhaust flow. None of my pipes were never in a bender. The bender restricts exhaust flow in the bends. Track proven!
The answer is that we seen it on the Dyno. We seen what these cars can do. For instance, we dynoed an 89 GTA TA with just Dyno Don Headers(which are 1 3/4in tubes), dual 2 1/2in cats and Magnaflow 3in cat -back. Before the tune it made 241whp, after tune it made 251whp. The owner of the car is ItsMikey on TGO. The fact is we Dyno and we test.
THe last time I heard about him, he did a ***** move with the car. You know 2 inches off the ground. Cut the springs stuff. Don’t know if it’s ever been to the track.
The answer is that we seen it on the Dyno. We seen what these cars can do. For instance, we dynoed an 89 GTA TA with just Dyno Don Headers(which are 1 3/4in tubes), dual 2 1/2in cats and Magnaflow 3in cat -back. Before the tune it made 241whp, after tune it made 251whp. The owner of the car is ItsMikey on TGO. The fact is we Dyno and we test.
. Track proven!
10HP after all that? With a generous 80% Drive line loss of 80% that is a 12.5hp increase at the crank for headers, dual cats, and a 3 in cat back. That is far from magical and borderline depressing.
10HP after all that? With a generous 80% Drive line loss of 80% that is a 12.5hp increase at the crank for headers, dual cats, and a 3 in cat back. That is far from magical and borderline depressing.
You didn't have to say anything specific, the statement about the overall affect of torque multiplication somehow being the gospel truth did, This is one of the reasons I tend to stay away from these arguments, because they are parroted over and over again. Gear change whether trans of rear, tire size, stall speed, shift points, everything has a cause and effect. There is a reason why 1/4 mile calculators only really factor weight and horsepower to determine an approximate et and trap speed without getting into gearing, the assumption is that they are already where they need to be. A 305 with a five speed, an L98 from an F-Body without a Corvette servo, an L98 from a Y-Body with a Corvette servo, you see they are all balanced to meet the GM objective. To argue about them and compare is a waste of time. By the way you also inferred carbs as being detrimental, you didn't say it, you implied it. Carbs w/power-glides still hold their own, and yes they may not make any more power over fuel injection.... but they certainly don't make any less..
- Rob
You also are forgetting it is really about area under the curve and peak numbers are not the only consideration. A big Turbo Supra that peaks 1000hp may not be as fast in a 1/4 milesas a smaller Turbo that peaks at 700hp but has a much flatter curve. Although generally speaking the curves in stock trim between and LB9 and L98 have a very similar shape.
A LB9 G92 car is not quicker or faster than an L98 G92 car though.
Dynos take engine RPM and Drum (Wheel) RPM to factor out gearing. Although it has been proven a lower gear (Higher numerically) will actually increase parasitic loss. So, on a dyno going from a 2.73 to a 3.73 will show small net decrease in WHP. However, you will have a faster car after the change due to mechanical advantage,
Not sure what argument you have, I hope it's not that the LB9 5-speed is faster than an L98. I also hope your not in the camp that an L98 is running with an LS1.
Well considering that stock 89 GTA L98 is 200-205whp, then with the exhaust system it has on it now the whp is up to 251whp is a big difference. A stock LT1 with 275-285fwhp is about 230-240whp runs mid 13,s@ 103-105mph
Well considering that stock 89 GTA L98 is 200-205whp, then with the exhaust system it has on it now the whp is up to 251whp is a big difference. A stock LT1 with 275-285fwhp is about 230-240whp runs mid 13,s@ 103-105mph
250 whp out of headers , exhaust and a tune is pretty impressive !! ignore the kyle guy , he doesnt seems very bright .. 10 hp gain , lol ..
See now that's scary, I was reading dmccain's response and that was the first thing that came to my mind when he said "that's what I said", the damn Goonies popped in my head only to see Drew post that very pic lmao...
For what it's worth guys, I've been messing with a stock, but ported, Tuned Port Injection along with a modded 305 myself. Turbo is going back on this weekend, but in the interim I figured I would document what it made naturally aspirated just for sheets and giggles. Datalogs show between 300-320 horsepower based on injector duty cycle at close to 6000-RPM, and the 1/4 mile analysis shows low to mid 13's with a 60' slightly over 2 seconds. I can't launch it on the street because the tires just light up, so I had to disable Launch Mode, and Power Enrichment in key areas of the bin so it's just working off of the SA Main Table, and TPS% for PE, Still forced to feather it either way. Would like to get it to the track and a decent dyno before the turbo goes back on to see what it has, officially,, but I do trust the EBL data that is being given to me. Looking at the datalog immediately after this blip today, TPS was at 70-75% because I am forced to feather it with no drag radials. I made this for one of the moderators earlier...
I had a buddy bring his L69 HIGH OUTPUT 305 into the shop the other day. Wanted to perk it up a bit......
We "perked" it up alright. Full Mobil 1 oil change, set the plug gaps, and added a CATCO catalytic convertor.
We put down 376 RWHP, and 416 RWTQ. Car is stock, except for the newly added Mobil 1 and Catco.
Not many people realize the Catco convertors are manufactured with "high strength" steel. This creates far less turbulence vs other manufacturers (hence our 300RWHP gain compared to the normal 4-5 RWHP gain).
... but most keep forgetting, I didn't put on my Mr. Gasket stickers that I got with my timing chain cover yet, and once those go on then all bets are off. Hell I'm thinking I might not even need the turbo anymore once those go on, just need to find the right spot because it's very critical.
Last Thursday, a customer of mine, Richard Head stopped in. He has an 89 Iroc, G92 bad boy he wanted to "spice up"
We gave him the deluxe package (air foil, TB coolant bypass, 180 degree stat, and bumper the timing up a smidge).
Dyno sheets were, unfortunately, destroyed in a massive tornado. However, stock he was making 210 RWHP, and 315 RWTQ.
After the deluxe package, he left with 391 RWHP, and 465 RWTQ.
He called me on Saturday and said "thank you, I just ran my first 10.89 @167".
Here’s an all stock 87 Vette with free mods and tune. Remember the vettes have a better factory exhaust system than the f-bodies. https://youtu.be/gMkejIDOLv4
Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to burn out for blocks is insignificant next to the power of the Forced LS1.
4 pages of a 2 year old thread...20 minutes of my life i can't get back, lol! Lots of fun memories, but not a lot of time slips to back up the claims? Of course i shouldn't talk, I got none either. A couple things I've taken from this thread... Justin, your 2.77 ls1 auto ran 13.4? So from that i can assume my 01 ss 6 speed 3.42 car had to be at least 13 flat? Which would mean my zz4 powered 86 was a solid low 12 car since i could spank any bolt on ls1? Cool! I wish i had time slips for all the fun cars I've owned over the years. After reading this thread I'm definitely gonna go run my 87 before summer is over to see how it does with what I've done to it. My l98 "feels" pretty quick, but without a trip to the track don't low if it'd hang with an ls1. A little off topic, but anybody know from experience how our cars stacked up against an older wrx? Only reason I'm throwing that out is cause my little old dodge Daytona I used to have could hang with a bolt on sti all day. Let the bench racing continue! This is fun
... and that is the secret to TPI power. There is no greater force than the butt dyno, you can literally feel that force around you, between you, me and the tree. Everywhere, yeeeessssss, even between the street, and the stick shift. The butt dyno is the key to TPI power, and could literally be considered, full of it. TPI is OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!
I don't care how much power TPI makes. I love to see one under the hood. They are a part of the 80s, they are symbolic to these third gens, and the best looking SBC ever put under the hood of a GM car IMO. A 5.0 H.O. with its dual snorkel air cleaner is a close second.
I don't care how much power TPI makes. I love to see one under the hood. They are a part of the 80s, they are symbolic to these third gens, and the best looking SBC ever put under the hood of a GM car IMO. A 5.0 H.O. with its dual snorkel air cleaner is a close second.
I don't care how much power TPI makes. I love to see one under the hood. They are a part of the 80s, they are symbolic to these third gens, and the best looking SBC ever put under the hood of a GM car IMO. A 5.0 H.O. with its dual snorkel air cleaner is a close second.
in those years. i think TPI was great. a little background... my 86 had a LG4 carb. i converted to a cam/heads/intake TPI speed density with a procharger 14#'s car dyno'd 381/420 to the wheels. you could blow the tires off in 1st and 2nd it had massive "butt" torque but fell off quick. i was not happy with it. i bought a c6 grand sport with the LS3 all it had was a cold air intake. the camaro felt broken after driving that car. i swapped in a 6.0 LQ9 LS with a hot cam and cold air intake and 1-7/8 longtube headers and i can feel the low end loss of the TPI torque but the car is much better to drive. i can chirp all the gears now outside of 5th and it PULLS. i wish i've done this swap a long time ago.
I don't care how much power TPI makes. I love to see one under the hood. They are a part of the 80s, they are symbolic to these third gens, and the best looking SBC ever put under the hood of a GM car IMO. A 5.0 H.O. with its dual snorkel air cleaner is a close second.
The thing is after reading all this, you are better off just leaving it alone and enjoying the TPI for what it is worth. I think I am more confused on what to do now!
As SUPERIOR as they are all of us do not like LS engines in these classic cars. I know all about them and I agree they are awesome but they do not look as good under the hood of a car they did not come in to me and a lot of others . If I had a hot rod and not more of a show car I would definitely go LS. A guy was giving me grief about LS engines the other day and asked me why I didn't like them I replied I love em "I have one in my pickup and its great"
The thing is after reading all this, you are better off just leaving it alone and enjoying the TPI for what it is worth. I think I am more confused on what to do now!
Great idea! This thread started out as a question on how to tweak TPI and has degenerated into a wiener measuring contest on why TPI isn't as good as the much newer LSx.
I really enjoyed BadSS's post though, wish he'd post some more.
