When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I always forget about people that have put turbos on IROCs and TPI Vettes.. I don’t know much about Grand Nationals but know some guys obsessed with them.. I’ve never messed with one.. always an F-Body guy.. I’d get into Grand Nationals if they weren’t so overpriced..
Back in the day, I use to do "super-tunes" on G-bodies, F-bodies, and Mustangs when they were new. I used to do before runs with the owner driving and after runs with me driving using a Vericom 2000 that I verified was pretty close to the real track numbers. The "before" tests of the 350TPI cars and the “want to be racer” driving ranged anywhere from 14.4s to 15.0s – dependent on year model, gearing, and the driver (most were MAF cars though). It was not uncommon for me to get the 3.23/3.27 geared cars to run in the high 13.50 low 13.60 range with me driving, after porting the plenum, air-foil, descreening the MAF (if applicable), adding an AFPR, bumping the timing and TPS, gutting the air box, adding a home depot "ram air" w/K&N, 160* stat, and adjusting the lifters to 1/4 turn. That was with an untouched base and runners with stock exhaust manifolds, stock cam, and no "chip".
I got one 89 with G92 option to run 13.20s (at the track with slicks) with mild porting to the base (not much more than removing the lip at the runner entrance), 1.6 rocker arms, ported MAF, pullies, ported cast iron manifold with custom 2.25” Y-pipe (no cat) into a 3” single in and out exhaust muffler. This was a few hundred feet above sea-level with temps in the 70s. Most folks (back then) swore it had nitrous on it because other than the exhaust there was no real indication anything had been done to it.
I only have firsthand knowledge on one 305 TPI 1LE 5 speed (it only had a couple hundred miles on it). Show room stock (street tires and all) it ran a mid-high 14.80 with the owner driving and me in the car. That put him in about the middle of the pack compared to the 350TPI cars (some were faster, some were slower). He didn’t want to do a full “super tune” with it being so new, but after installing a 160 stat, just taking out the air deflectors in the air boxes - not a gutting, K&N filters, bumping the TPS and the timing, me driving (riding the clutch pretty heavy), him in the car, it ran a mid-high 14.20. He took it to the track the following week - on 26x8.5 slicks, riding the holy hell out of the clutch, it ran one 13.98,,, and a couple 14.0's before the stock clutch left for vacation. This was a couple hundred feet about sea-level and I believe the temp was in the low 60s.
Anyway, the times posted are what they are. Your 350TPI may be faster or slower, but I literally sat in them, drove them, and saw what these near new factory fresh cars were running,,,,, no fluff, no magazines, no friend of a friend’s factory freak, and most importantly no unknown previous owner’s or shop work that slows down or speeds up a 30-year old car (which I believe attributes to the majority of the factory freaks we hear about).
Back in the day, I use to do "super-tunes" on G-bodies, F-bodies, and Mustangs when they were new. I used to do before runs with the owner driving and after runs with me driving using a Vericom 2000 that I verified was pretty close to the real track numbers. The "before" tests of the 350TPI cars and the “want to be racer” driving ranged anywhere from 14.4s to 15.0s – dependent on year model, gearing, and the driver (most were MAF cars though). It was not uncommon for me to get the 3.23/3.27 geared cars to run in the high 13.50 low 13.60 range with me driving, after porting the plenum, air-foil, descreening the MAF (if applicable), adding an AFPR, bumping the timing and TPS, gutting the air box, adding a home depot "ram air" w/K&N, 160* stat, and adjusting the lifters to 1/4 turn. That was with an untouched base and runners with stock exhaust manifolds, stock cam, and no "chip".
I got one 89 with G92 option to run 13.20s (at the track with slicks) with mild porting to the base (not much more than removing the lip at the runner entrance), 1.6 rocker arms, ported MAF, pullies, ported cast iron manifold with custom 2.25” Y-pipe (no cat) into a 3” single in and out exhaust muffler. This was a few hundred feet above sea-level with temps in the 70s. Most folks (back then) swore it had nitrous on it because other than the exhaust there was no real indication anything had been done to it.
I only have firsthand knowledge on one 305 TPI 1LE 5 speed (it only had a couple hundred miles on it). Show room stock (street tires and all) it ran a mid-high 14.80 with the owner driving and me in the car. That put him in about the middle of the pack compared to the 350TPI cars (some were faster, some were slower). He didn’t want to do a full “super tune” with it being so new, but after installing a 160 stat, just taking out the air deflectors in the air boxes - not a gutting, K&N filters, bumping the TPS and the timing, me driving (riding the clutch pretty heavy), him in the car, it ran a mid-high 14.20. He took it to the track the following week - on 26x8.5 slicks, riding the holy hell out of the clutch, it ran one 13.98,,, and a couple 14.0's before the stock clutch left for vacation. This was a couple hundred feet about sea-level and I believe the temp was in the low 60s.
Anyway, the times posted are what they are. Your 350TPI may be faster or slower, but I literally sat in them, drove them, and saw what these near new factory fresh cars were running,,,,, no fluff, no magazines, no friend of a friend’s factory freak, and most importantly no unknown previous owner’s or shop work that slows down or speeds up a 30-year old car (which I believe attributes to the majority of the factory freaks we hear about).
Thanks for posting! Very interesting stuff. Amazing on that 5 speed shaving 6 tenths with essentially simple, free mods! BTW, where would you set the TPS?
Thanks for posting! Very interesting stuff. Amazing on that 5 speed shaving 6 tenths with essentially simple, free mods!
The before and after times are a little tainted in that I always had the owner driving and me riding for the before times. The vast majority of the 5-speed owners (mostly Mustang drivers) didn't know how to drive the things. I'd do the after runs to show them what the car was capable of (with the mods), then would coach them on how to duplicate the times - I considered that as part of the deal. Most would be able to duplicate, get really close, and occasional there would be someone that would run a little better than me. All of them should have and probably would eventually run better with practice, since I don't consider myself all that good. So if you're already driving the thing like you stole it, those mods alone won't give you a .6-second drop.
The before and after times are a little tainted in that I always had the owner driving and me riding for the before times. The vast majority of the 5-speed owners (mostly Mustang drivers) didn't know how to drive the things. I'd do the after runs to show them what the car was capable of (with the mods), then would coach them on how to duplicate the times - I considered that as part of the deal. Most would be able to duplicate, get really close, and occasional there would be someone that would run a little better than me. All of them should have and probably would eventually run better with practice, since I don't consider myself all that good. So if you're already driving the thing like you stole it, those mods alone won't give you a .6-second drop.
I was probably editing my post while you were posting, but where would you set the TPS?
I was probably editing my post while you were posting, but where would you set the TPS?
I'd shoot for .575V closed but would go as high as .6V to get a little higher WOT voltage if needed. I'd adjust it to get as close to 5volts as possible when open. I know some will say all you need is 4volts based on the tables. However, all I can say is the car would ET fractionally better and have a little better throttle response with the slight bump in the closed setting and the higher WOT setting - how much depended on how far off the settings from the factory were compared to my final settings. The timing was one thing that was all over the chart from the factory and seemed to contribute the most to the variances in the totally stock times.
Not TPI related, but there was not a single computer controlled carb that I saw opening all the way - every one required a linkage adjustment and some were WAY off.
We used to ice our TPI plenums at the track before runs and I doubt it helped any. We would gut the filter boxes, delete cats, run aftermarket chips. My 305 auto ran a best of 14.76 which I thought wasn't bad for a 305 with 2.73 gears. It would barely shift into 3rd as I crossed finish line. Lol. I love the TPI systems on these cars they look so good.
I'd shoot for .575V closed but would go as high as .6V to get a little higher WOT voltage if needed. I'd adjust it to get as close to 5volts as possible when open. I know some will say all you need is 4volts based on the tables. However, all I can say is the car would ET fractionally better and have a little better throttle response with the slight bump in the closed setting and the higher WOT setting - how much depended on how far off the settings from the factory were compared to my final settings. The timing was one thing that was all over the chart from the factory and seemed to contribute the most to the variances in the totally stock times.
Not TPI related, but there was not a single computer controlled carb that I saw opening all the way - every one required a linkage adjustment and some were WAY off.
We used to ice our TPI plenums at the track before runs and I doubt it helped any. We would gut the filter boxes, delete cats, run aftermarket chips. My 305 auto ran a best of 14.76 which I thought wasn't bad for a 305 with 2.73 gears. It would barely shift into 3rd as I crossed finish line. Lol. I love the TPI systems on these cars they look so good.
Same here.. Always feels like they run better cold so maybe it helps.. first drive on a cool morning feels like the car pulls a little harder and shifts a little harder.. Don’t know how much it helps, but it feels like it makes a difference. The Grand National guys always brought bags of ice.
We used to try and get higher octane fuel too or use octane booster (not sure if that did anything). I always used to run Sunoco Ultra 94 and I don’t see that anymore.. A guy I knew used to get 100 octane.. I don’t know if it made a difference..
We’d try to run with a low fuel level for weight too. 15 gallons of fuel is heavy! Any little thing..
If you're not running AVGAS and helium in your tires, you need to get on my level.
So uh do you leave the spare tire at home or just fill er up with helium for added buoyancy (weight reduction)?
We took a 2.5" hole saw and bored lightening holes in all the interior bracing, and cut out the impact bars in the doors, and moved the charcoal cans to the trunk for weight transfer.
A fist full of laxatives the night before a race was typical, to clear out all the bovine solid waste. Was always good for a tenth or two and put you in the right mindset. Poop your brains out and do an AVGAS cleanse to sharpen the edge of your KILLER INSTINCT.
Same here.. Always feels like they run better cold so maybe it helps.. first drive on a cool morning feels like the car pulls a little harder and shifts a little harder.. Don’t know how much it helps, but it feels like it makes a difference. The Grand National guys always brought bags of ice.
We used to try and get higher octane fuel too or use octane booster (not sure if that did anything). I always used to run Sunoco Ultra 94 and I don’t see that anymore.. A guy I knew used to get 100 octane.. I don’t know if it made a difference..
We’d try to run with a low fuel level for weight too. 15 gallons of fuel is heavy! Any little thing..
I remember back in the day the 5.0 Mustang camp had their mods figured out before the TPI guys. It seemed the free mods that the 5.0 community did also applied to TPI as well.
Without boost, TPI has no chance against what is out there today, and will remain stuck in yesteryear...
There aren't many that do have a chance against modern engines. The engines/tech/EFI of today is just plain awesome and there really isn't much from yesterday that can compete. I mean we're comparing our engines to LS1's from the 4th gen era like they're something special. They're nothing compared to what's out today.
We used to ice our TPI plenums at the track before runs and I doubt it helped any. We would gut the filter boxes, delete cats, run aftermarket chips. My 305 auto ran a best of 14.76 which I thought wasn't bad for a 305 with 2.73 gears. It would barely shift into 3rd as I crossed finish line. Lol. I love the TPI systems on these cars they look so good.
You're bringing back some funny memories. Looking back, it's embarrassing to even consider what was done within the community to squeeze a few extra tenths out of these cars, and I'm talking back in the 90's into the 00's. Little did everyone know that they were essentially battling the stock bin, and not the engine itself...
Originally Posted by chazman
I remember back in the day the 5.0 Mustang camp had their mods figured out before the TPI guys. It seemed the free mods that the 5.0 community did also applied to TPI as well.
The 5.0 Mustangs had the advantage though, and not necessarily the larger bore size. Their ECM's were very different in terms of tuning, and General Motors made it very difficult for their community...
Originally Posted by 88IROCvertZ
Same here.. Always feels like they run better cold.
Bingo. Once Closed Loop is enabled there are quite a few areas that restrict power; soft rev limiters, pulled timing, in fact poor timing to begin with, all coupled with early shift points and poor camshaft designs. This is what our enthusiasts were dealing with, and they were scratching their heads in confusion when they couldn't figure out what was wrong, thus the intake and ECM swaps. Taking a good look at a stock bin will reveal what the problem was, not to mention mismatched parts to keep the car slower than GM's flagship, the overpriced C4 Corvette...
I had a buddy, who's cousin SAW a G92 92 Z28 trapping 135 MPH BONE STOCK.
Track was at the top of Mt. Everest, cool breeze was blowing, the first 60' of the track was covered in stick em commonly used by NFL players in the 70s and 80s.
The same day (This was early 1993), a 2002 WS6, M6, cam/heads/nitrous and drag radials could not get out of the 17s to save his life. My great grandson (at the time, he has since passed....I am 34 now), was running 11.85-11.90s with his BONE STOCK 89 Formula 3.1. This car DID have the factory G92 option, with STOCK Formula 14x7 steel wheels, and 195/70r14 tires.
NOW, with all that being said, EVERYBODY knows these cars run MUCH better when nobody is actually recording the runs, and they cannot be documented in any way. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry knows the recording equipment causes an "Magneto from the X-Men" interference with the ECM.
Hell, my 17 Ram 1500 sport clicks off low 12s at 146 MPH until people start fing it up with recording equipment.
Final point: I know a guy, who knows a guy, who's nephew, has a buddy, with 365 NOS T-Rams, 117 Dana 44 rear axles, and 39 of the original 27 Firehawks....
G92 was actually an abbreviation for "Going 9.2@ 165 in the 1/4" BONE STOCK.
In the 90s the definition of G92 was as follows-
A code in the glovebox of a car that would infuriate people that thought they were untouchable with “5.7” on their bumper causing them to go out and buy a boring 5.0 Mustang LX with a trunk with Its awesome economy sedan interior to out race everyone while we enjoyed our cars.
If you're not running AVGAS and helium in your tires, you need to get on my level.
So uh do you leave the spare tire at home or just fill er up with helium for added buoyancy (weight reduction)?
We took a 2.5" hole saw and bored lightening holes in all the interior bracing, and cut out the impact bars in the doors, and moved the charcoal cans to the trunk for weight transfer.
A fist full of laxatives the night before a race was typical, to clear out all the bovine solid waste. Was always good for a tenth or two and put you in the right mindset. Poop your brains out and do an AVGAS cleanse to sharpen the edge of your KILLER INSTINCT.
Don't forget to put the shifter in R for RACE! before you run it down the track. Yeah, you'll have to do it backwards, but it's better for racing because of the torque multiplication.
Heh, I remember some guys cutting two slits under the Trans Am hood behind the front heat extractors then claiming ten horsepower because of the "cooler" engine bay going down the track lol. Yeah, this website has definitely had its' share of delusional moments. What's even more funny is some of the magazine writers back in the day took these idiots seriously and would come on here for information, and actually wrote articles on the benefits of doing some of these travesties. It's no wonder those same writers have since tried to bury those old third gen articles lol...
A code in the glovebox of a car that would infuriate people that thought they were untouchable with “5.7” on their bumper causing them to go out and buy a boring 5.0 Mustang LX with a trunk with Its awesome economy sedan interior to out race everyone while we enjoyed our cars.
I'll tell you one thing, most IROC/TAs had a peanut cam LB9, single cat exhaust, 700R4 and 2.73 gear back in the day. The Mustang guys usually had easy pickin's and a good laugh afterwards.
Imagine the look on their face when they went up against a G92 car they thought was equipped as above. Of course, they'd lose. But the fun came when they tried to mentally process what just happened!
If you've never raced a cocky kid in a 5.0, only to see the same car for sale a week later on a GM dealer's used car lot, you don't drive a speed density L98.
Mustang guys had easy pickins, but I never liked those cars.. What a boring car..
The GTs and the Cobras were ok looking, but still had terrible interior.. not very inspiring to drive even with a good looking time-slip..
The handling and braking were not up to 3rd gen standards, and they all weren't necessarily fast. True, they all had the same motor, but there's a HUGE difference in acceleration between say, a convertible, auto, 2.73 gear car and an LX notch with a 5 speed and 3.08 gear.
Mustang guys had easy pickins, but I never liked those cars.. What a boring car..
Umm... No. I wouldn't call most of the Mustangs I've driven "Boring". My 86 is more on par with a roller coaster. Taking your life into you own two hands. A 2800lb car with the suspension equal to a Conestoga Wagon, powered by a 7k RPM 300+ horsepower 4cyl, that sounds like an F-15 a few seconds before the G-forces tear the wings off... Not boring. More like being the hood ornament on a runaway freight train.
Now if you said they drive like ****, look like a performance oriented K-car, had the build quality of off-brand no-name toys from the great big wire bin at Kmart, then I'd say sure.
PS the 84-93 Notchback is the best looking Fox body. The 93 Cobra, and LX hatch aren't too bad, but the 87-93 GT is just bloody retarded looking. Like Fat Elvis and Liberace ganged up and gave it a louvered tail light pearl necklace.
Umm... No. I wouldn't call most of the Mustangs I've driven "Boring". My 86 is more on par with a roller coaster. Taking your life into you own two hands. A 2800lb car with the suspension equal to a Conestoga Wagon, powered by a 7k RPM 300+ horsepower 4cyl, that sounds like an F-15 a few seconds before the G-forces tear the wings off... Not boring. More like being the hood ornament on a runaway freight train.
Now if you said they drive like ****, look like a performance oriented K-car, had the build quality of off-brand no-name toys from the great big wire bin at Kmart, then I'd say sure.
PS the 84-93 Notchback is the best looking Fox body. The 93 Cobra, and LX hatch aren't too bad, but the 87-93 GT is just bloody retarded looking. Like Fat Elvis and Liberace ganged up and gave it a louvered tail light pearl necklace.
They were fun in a straight line, but squirelly at speed. I agree about the '87-'93 GT, not very pretty.
I rented a 5 speed, '90 GT for a week while out of town once. I beat that poor car mercilessly. Great fun!
But in all fairness, I remember test driving the 157 hp, '82 GT. Wow! Made an impression! I shifted into second and the rear went sideways. Something you just didn't expect in 1982.
Mustang guys had easy pickins, but I never liked those cars.. What a boring car..
The GTs and the Cobras were ok looking, but still had terrible interior.. not very inspiring to drive even with a good looking time-slip..
Be careful, some of those LX 5.0s were FAST.
Hell,
I had a buddy, Tex Nevada, from Colorado, who used to run 11.89s at a peach fuzz under 162.
His mods, yoi ask?
BONE STOCK except the "visors removed" mod.
Track had been covered in rhino feces the night before, had a 27 mph crosswind, and the voice of Nickelodeon's hit show "where in the world is Carmen Sandiago" in attendance.
That's not funny. Carmen Sandiego was a victim of racial profiling and a pop cultural smearing of her name. Heck, she rarely was even the thief being pursued in the game, but her name always came up as the suspect. It's offensive! I mean how the hell is a 115lb hispanic woman supposed to steel the Brooklyn Bridge anyway?
Maybe she just tied a chain from it to the rear bumper of her G92 and pulled it away in 4lo?
That's not funny. Carmen Sandiego was a victim of racial profiling and a pop cultural smearing of her name. Heck, she rarely was even the thief being pursued in the game, but her name always came up as the suspect. It's offensive! I mean how the hell is a 115lb hispanic woman supposed to steel the Brooklyn Bridge anyway?
Maybe she just tied a chain from it to the rear bumper of her G92 and pulled it away in 4lo?
Carmen doesn't really strike me as a G92 person. She probably just bought off the lot. Most likely a Firebird because she liked the pop up lights.
That's not funny. Carmen Sandiego was a victim of racial profiling and a pop cultural smearing of her name. Heck, she rarely was even the thief being pursued in the game, but her name always came up as the suspect. It's offensive! I mean how the hell is a 115lb hispanic woman supposed to steel the Brooklyn Bridge anyway?
Maybe she just tied a chain from it to the rear bumper of her G92 and pulled it away in 4lo?
She deserved the unfair attention. You ever see the "where are they now" Carmen special. I literally had to turn it off when they started showing her sleeping in her own excrement, and turning tricks for 5 bucks a pop.
RIP Carmen Sandiego, your children "Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria" miss you terribly.
HOLY COW.....I'm a few days behind on this thread. Noticed in OTHER threads that Drew had that 305 Grunt battle quote in his sig. Didn't understand it, but I just came across it here in this thread and nearly pissed myself! OMG, THAT is funny. I feel bad for those of you who knew the story. Stumbling upon it as I did was truly the way to experience it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOLY COW.....I'm a few days behind on this thread. Noticed in OTHER threads that Drew had that 305 Grunt battle quote in his sig. Didn't understand it, but I just came across it here in this thread and nearly pissed myself! OMG, THAT is funny. I feel bad for those of you who knew the story. Stumbling upon it as I did was truly the way to experience it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was funny finding out the other way too.. haven’t laughed out loud reading Thirdgen too much..
HOLY COW.....I'm a few days behind on this thread. Noticed in OTHER threads that Drew had that 305 Grunt battle quote in his sig. Didn't understand it, but I just came across it here in this thread and nearly pissed myself! OMG, THAT is funny. I feel bad for those of you who knew the story. Stumbling upon it as I did was truly the way to experience it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is one of the best conversations without getting too bent out of shape on each other i have seen in a long time. Just for conversation, I did have a 1985 Z28 Lb9 that would stay with my friends 1988 L98 until we started stretching our legs out a ways, then he would slowly pull ahead. That was back in 1988. The '85 had a better cam, then in '86 they dropped some horse's. Anyone know why GM would have done that? Maybe because they run too close to the power of the new L98?
Ok! I think I figured out why my car went faster than most with simple Exhaust and gutted airbox mods. Like I said before 13.4@104. Look at the pictures of my exhaust system. SLP 1 3/4in Headers modded with a 3in ball-n-socket, 2 3/4 pipes from headers to 3in dual cats into a Flowmaster y-pipe( 3in in/ 3in out into 3in cat-back into 3in in/out Hooker muffler. Note to where the y-pipe is located behind the cats. I think most of you probably used the factory y-pipe which is garbage. Or, used the single cat set up from Hooker, Headman or Edelbrock. Those y-pipe doesn’t merge flow as well as the Flowmaster y-pipe. Or even the factory single cat y-pipe which is the worst when using cheap headers on the factory system like Flowtech. One more thing, I used all mendral bent pipes. Some of y’all used bent pipes from a bending machine. The pipes are crush in the bends which causes exhaust flow restrictions.
Last edited by VincentZ28; 07-25-2018 at 10:48 PM.
This has been a fun thread and brings back a lot of memories. When I bought my first TPI car and showed my Dad his first remarks were " What kind of octopus mother %uk4r is this?" I still think to this day its the coolest small block configuration ever put out.
Ok! I think I figured out why my car went faster than most with simple Exhaust and gutted airbox mods. Like I said before 13.4@104. Look at the pictures of my exhaust system. SLP 1 3/4in Headers modded with a 3in ball-n-socket, 2 3/4 pipes from headers to 3in dual cats into a Flowmaster y-pipe( 3in in/ 3in out into 3in cat-back into 3in in/out Hooker muffler. Note to where the y-pipe is located behind the cats. I think most of you probably used the factory y-pipe which is garbage. Or, used the single cat set up from Hooker, Headman or Edelbrock. Those y-pipe doesn’t merge flow as well as the Flowmaster y-pipe. Or even the factory single cat y-pipe which is the worst when using cheap headers on the factory system like Flowtech. One more thing, I used all mendral bent pipes. Some of y’all used bent pipes from a bending machine. The pipes are crush in the bends which causes exhaust flow restrictions.
Hell,
I had an uncle, who's buddy was clicking off 10.69s at 476 in a stock Berlinetta. Only mods were the air cleaner lid was flipped upside down.
Track was clean as a whistle that day, pretty sure it was 68.5 degrees, only a 1-2MPH headwind, nachos were buy one get one, and "The Macho Man" Randy Savage was doing "ooooooh yeaaaaaaaa's" over the loud speaker.
07-24-2018, 08:34 PM
Thanks for posting! Very interesting stuff. Amazing on that 5 speed shaving 6 tenths with essentially simple, free mods! BTW, where would you set the TPS? 
