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Omw home from a pizza run early yesterday evening, I'm proceeding northbound on the street approaching my house and BOOM there's a 2009 Chevy Silverado resting atop my passenger side hood/bumper/fender. Where'd he come from you ask... He backed right out of his driveway into oncoming traffic (ME). Their reasoning, "I was in a hurry & didn't see you".
What do you all think? Total Loss?
*Yes the person had insurance, Claim was filed on site, Damage estimator came out today and took a ton of pics. He closed the visit with you'll hear from me IF we're moving forward with repairs, and you'll hear from the Claims Adjuster in the event it's totaled....
Omw home from a pizza run early yesterday evening, I'm proceeding northbound on the street approaching my house and BOOM there's a 2009 Chevy Silverado resting atop my passenger side hood/bumper/fender. Where'd he come from you ask... He backed right out of his driveway into oncoming traffic (ME). Their reasoning, "I was in a hurry & didn't see you".
What do you all think? Total Loss?
*Yes the person had insurance, Claim was filed on site, Damage estimator came out today and took a ton of pics. He closed the visit with you'll hear from me IF we're moving forward with repairs, and you'll hear from the Claims Adjuster in the event it's totaled....
Fixable yes, I agree. The bigger question is going to be does the "retail cost of repair" exceed the "insurance adjusters value of my car"... The car is no comparison to many of the ThirdGen's I've seen here on TGO, but it's my ThirdGen and this is killing me. Maybe I'm a tad emotional but damaging a ThirdGen should be punishable by.... immediate kneecapping!
Fixable yes, I agree. The bigger question is going to be does the "retail cost of repair" exceed the "insurance adjusters value of my car"... The car is no comparison to many of the ThirdGen's I've seen here on TGO, but it's my ThirdGen and this is killing me. Maybe I'm a tad emotional but damaging a ThirdGen should be punishable by.... immediate kneecapping!
Hopefully you can negotiate a settlement where by u either get it fixed or they pay you and u keep car or buy it back in a way that u break even or come up ahead. It's a tricky business, but maybe u could get a couple of bids etc. I once had 72 Rivi, where I supplied the fender and bumper so it saved money and they paid for repair, I put some cash on top to get it done the way I wanted etc. Get comparison prices in your state etc..g good luck with your car.
It looks like the bumper cover is racked and the headlights are out of place, which might indicate core support damage.
If there isn't any core support damage, or frame damage, a new dog house should fix everything.
If you decide not to fix it, let me know if you want to sell it.
Easy answer is run it by a body shop and get a quote (even maaco will do here), if its more than blue book you know they will total it. I've always insisted on using independent body shop quotes. GA laws allow for it but some states allow the insurance company to force you to use their own adjusters. This is why I have collectors insurance on mine... we have an agreed value on the car vs the book value.
Also go ahead and shop around for one in similar condition so you are prepared... the insurance company probably has a book value between 1300-2000 on that car and at a body shop that is easily $2500 to fix and paint. Also make sure you have a set of junk wheels/tires to throw on it when they pick it up etc...
That will probably be a $3,500-$4,500 body shop fix. I work at a Chrysler dealership body shop and we would write that estimate to paint the hood, fender, nose, and chin spoiler....as well as blending the paint on the top of the opposite fender, windshield posts, and passenger side door. White is actually a really tough color to get a panel match on.
If they total the car, buy it back from them and then with the extra insurance money you have left over you can buy a $500 parts car and have the parts you need to fix yours. Have a body shop do your paint work, and put it together yourself...
as long as the weld on front frame is not bent your good otherwise you need a doner car with a good frame to fix the damage there is no more specs to straighten the frame car is considered a total loss
as long as the weld on front frame is not bent your good otherwise you need a doner car with a good frame to fix the damage there is no more specs to straighten the frame car is considered a total loss
What do you mean by "there is no more specs to straighten the frame"? Surely you don't mean what I think you do. Also, it's not a "weld on" front frame. It's a unibody structure made up of many individual components. The same specs needed for a proper straightening are the same ones needed for a proper parts replacement.
Anyhow...
Most likely the insurance company will total the car. However, it should be no problem properly repairing the car (even with structure damage) and it's your right to try and deal with the insurance company. Keep in contact with them constantly and let them know you want the car fixed. You didn't cause the wreck, so this is their problem, not yours. Show them prices of similar cars for sale or that have been sold. And most importantly, if you do not feel that their first offer is reasonable (highly likely) then simply do not except it. They will just low-ball you and hope you take the money and get out of their hair.
What do you mean by "there is no more specs to straighten the frame"? Surely you don't mean what I think you do. Also, it's not a "weld on" front frame. It's a unibody structure made up of many individual components. The same specs needed for a proper straightening are the same ones needed for a proper parts replacement.
Anyhow...
Most likely the insurance company will total the car. However, it should be no problem properly repairing the car (even with structure damage) and it's your right to try and deal with the insurance company. Keep in contact with them constantly and let them know you want the car fixed. You didn't cause the wreck, so this is their problem, not yours. Show them prices of similar cars for sale or that have been sold. And most importantly, if you do not feel that their first offer is reasonable (highly likely) then simply do not except it. They will just low-ball you and hope you take the money and get out of their hair.
I think he maybe means the upper rail that the top of the fender bolts to....that's about the only welded in piece..
Right...I just meant that upper rail is probably the only welded in part that might be damaged at all
Ahh, I follow now. The whole front end could be knocked over a tad, but it's hard to tell from that picture. It looks like it might just be a busted headlight mounting panel and maybe no major damage.
Ahh, I follow now. The whole front end could be knocked over a tad, but it's hard to tell from that picture. It looks like it might just be a busted headlight mounting panel and maybe no major damage.
Should be an easy fix. But ins co is probably gonna want to total because the value on these car's isn't all that high at the moment. If it did, I'd buy it back and fix it...
And this type of thinking the insurance companies have makes insurance expensive. Hey let's total cars left and right because we can ask for more expensive prices in the future to cover for our f'ed up management. Is it me or as the years pass people are more and more stupid? This is in the same category with pushing "green" cars while totaling good old cars ,because as we all know cars grow in trees and production won't pollute. This is a behavior I see in many many things done by people that never go outside and all their life is on a desk.
If by chance you can't keep the insurance company from totalling it, just buy it back and have it inspected to get a rebuilt salvage title. But, just patch the headlight mount panel back together good enough to hold the headlights where they belong. As long as everything functions properly, it will pass inspection. Then, once you have the rebuilt title, go ahead and replace the body panels. If you replace the panels before you get it inspected, you have to show proof of purchase for the parts and supply VINs for the donor panels (if they are used). Which means any used parts need to be from a car with a junked title.
It's a much simpler process to have the inspection done before you doll the car back up. At least in OH anyway, it may be different there.
If by chance you can't keep the insurance company from totalling it, just buy it back and have it inspected to get a rebuilt salvage title. But, just patch the headlight mount panel back together good enough to hold the headlights where they belong. As long as everything functions properly, it will pass inspection. Then, once you have the rebuilt title, go ahead and replace the body panels. If you replace the panels before you get it inspected, you have to show proof of purchase for the parts and supply VINs for the donor panels (if they are used). Which means any used parts need to be from a car with a junked title.
It's a much simpler process to have the inspection done before you doll the car back up. At least in OH anyway, it may be different there.
I don't know if all states are the same, but here in Iowa if the insurance company totals YOUR vehicle and YOU buy it back, the title stays clean since it was never transferred or messed with at all. I've done it with two cars, and one Harley. No issues at all.
I have an 88 with a bent front frame. the front frame is welded into the front body work and this generation does not have a replaceable front frame clip iv been to body shops and the software for their machines no longer has the specs for cars older than 2000 model years the unit body frame is spot welded to the front firewall and lower floor pans
I don't know if all states are the same, but here in Iowa if the insurance company totals YOUR vehicle and YOU buy it back, the title stays clean since it was never transferred or messed with at all. I've done it with two cars, and one Harley. No issues at all.
Wow, way simpler than Ohio!
Originally Posted by 88iroczwinder
I have an 88 with a bent front frame. the front frame is welded into the front body work and this generation does not have a replaceable front frame clip iv been to body shops and the software for their machines no longer has the specs for cars older than 2000 model years the unit body frame is spot welded to the front firewall and lower floor pans
See, there's these things called books. Or even just measurements based off of un-wrecked cars. Just because the shops you went to don't feel like working on older cars, doesn't mean that the information just disappeared. Trust me, it's still there.
And again, there's no "front frame welded into the bodywork" like you are assuming. It's many individual pieces welded together that make up the front "frame". They are ALL replaceable and removable, it just takes cutting and welding rather than bolts. You are clearly not familiar with the way your car is constructed or the proper ways to repair it, it's not a subject that you should be giving advice. Sorry if that came off a little harsh, but that's about the best way I could figure out how to word it.
I have an 88 with a bent front frame. the front frame is welded into the front body work and this generation does not have a replaceable front frame clip iv been to body shops and the software for their machines no longer has the specs for cars older than 2000 model years the unit body frame is spot welded to the front firewall and lower floor pans
ANY part on ANY vehicle, can be cut out and replaced. Maybe you should spend a little time watching Velocity. The specs for ANY vehicle are available.
With your logic, all engines manufactured before 2000, should be scrapped, because the specs aren't available at your engine builder.
This was my 10 month old 2000 Z28 that my ex wife totalled for me. The car had just turned 12k miles, and I bought it back from my insurance company for a whopping $600. I paid off the loan with the insurance money, and the title was released from the bank and sent directly to me. Just for gits and shiggles, I ran a carfax on it a couple years later, and it said it qualified for the $10,000 Carfax buyback guarantee! Lmao
im not saying you cant fix the car you just need a doner car to take the front end off of. Chevy doesn't make the parts for this generation anymore you just have to find a doner car to scavenger the frame pieces from
please consider holding out for a higher amount, as mentioned previously in this post, give the,comparable (use dealers locally/Clist, offer up etc), have you receipts ready to show work/add on's etc.......be polite/professional & document all conversations/emails/etc............prepare for this like a major test at Collage, do not let them intimidate you, belittle or otherwise. They need to make you "whole" by replacing your car....I have other thoughts but got to respond here at work best wishes
Alot of times they total it because they don't want to warranty repairs. I'm surprised at their appraisal, unless you have alot of upgrades.
On thing to consider, a rebuilt title means typically you can not get full coverage insurance. So know what you are getting into if you buy it back. At coparts (insurance) auction your car would sell between $300-$500. So minus fees they would recoup maybe $200 on the salvage sell.
I may need to get the appraisal upped on mine for my collectors insurance policy though... Based on these numbers.
If you could get them cut you a check at appraisal -$300 with no warranty for repairs, and then do the work yourself. You should be able to get a donor with a good front clip for $500-$1000, and get a cheap respray.
On thing to consider, a rebuilt title means typically you can not get full coverage insurance. So know what you are getting into if you buy it back.
This is a VERY common misconception. I have heard this a million times and it is NOT true. I've fixed a TON of salvage builders, had them fixed and inspected, issued a prior salvage title, and have had ZERO problems with full coverage insurance. I even totaled a prior salvage IROC-Z, and the insurance company totaled it again with full payout. I sold the car and it was fixed yet again to a buddy of mine who insured it with full coverage again after repairs were made, inspected, etc. I have had no troubles, with several examples.
Just got off the phone & they considered it a TL appraised @ $2795, said cost of repair was like $2040...
I should hear from their TL Dpt by the end of the week...
Do you have the car in your possession? is it drivable? I may be mistaken but if the car was not towed to a impound lot they can't total YOUR car if you do not accept their offer. It is your car and you have it and hold title. When they TL a car don't you have to surrender the title?I would take it to a local shop, get a estimate of what the repairs will cost and come to a settlement that does not consider it a TL. All the other OP's are right the Ins. co. will want to do what is best for them with no consideration for your situation. You should not get sad, but instead get fired up to get what you want and that sounds like you just want to get your car fixed. It may take a bit of fighting with them. Your damage is by all means 100% fixable and should not be considered a TL.
This is a VERY common misconception. I have heard this a million times and it is NOT true. I've fixed a TON of salvage builders, had them fixed and inspected, issued a prior salvage title, and have had ZERO problems with full coverage insurance. I even totaled a prior salvage IROC-Z, and the insurance company totaled it again with full payout. I sold the car and it was fixed yet again to a buddy of mine who insured it with full coverage again after repairs were made, inspected, etc. I have had no troubles, with several examples.
Not to side track the post but I guess it depends on the policy and state, my insurance company said they would provide liability coverage only on cars with a salvage/rebuilt title. I explored buying a higher end car and rebuilding last year, and had heard the same so I called them. Now if the title is clean and the car is rebuilt its fine. Of course full coverage doesn't make sense for a $4000 car anyways, at least not for me.
He should check though before going down this road to make sure he has all the information to make the right decision.
Insurance, financing if he has it, etc
Last edited by Aviator857; Sep 26, 2018 at 02:35 PM.
Do you have the car in your possession? is it drivable? I may be mistaken but if the car was not towed to a impound lot they can't total YOUR car if you do not accept their offer. It is your car and you have it and hold title. When they TL a car don't you have to surrender the title?I would take it to a local shop, get a estimate of what the repairs will cost and come to a settlement that does not consider it a TL. All the other OP's are right the Ins. co. will want to do what is best for them with no consideration for your situation. You should not get sad, but instead get fired up to get what you want and that sounds like you just want to get your car fixed. It may take a bit of fighting with them. Your damage is by all means 100% fixable and should not be considered a TL.
I'm gathering informational resources now....
-Printed a NADA guide price report for the 92RS and it has a "low" retail value of about $3265 + 10% based on the factory AC remaining intact ($3591), BUT the "average" retail value is just above $5K.
-Printed Hagerty Valuation Report and the numbers aren't that different. The the "fair" condition retail value is shown at $3800 w/ an average cost of $4900 and if in Off The Showroom Floor / Excellent condition it'd be valued at $10.2K. Estimates are -30% if it's a V6 but +25% for heritage edition, and +10% for T-Tops. Going with their lowest estimate I calculate $4180 for fair condition + T-Top bonus...
So I'd like to see negotiations land in between the two lows of $3591 & $4180... right in the middle would be $3885 which I could live with...
Here's the kicker, I'm in Columbus Ohio and not Craigslist, OfferUp, or LetGo has a 1992 RS w/ the 305 and similar mileage in a running condition for sale within a 200 mi radius. Do ins companies not know that 1992 was the the 25th anniversary but more importantly the last year of production for this body style? Thus a consumer (ME) is going to have a hell of a time finding another one!
-Printed a NADA guide price report for the 92RS and it has a "low" retail value of about $3265 + 10% based on the factory AC remaining intact ($3591), BUT the "average" retail value is just above $5K.
-Printed Hagerty Valuation Report and the numbers aren't that different. The the "fair" condition retail value is shown at $3800 w/ an average cost of $4900 and if in Off The Showroom Floor / Excellent condition it'd be valued at $10.2K. Estimates are -30% if it's a V6 but +25% for heritage edition, and +10% for T-Tops. Going with their lowest estimate I calculate $4180 for fair condition + T-Top bonus...
So I'd like to see negotiations land in between the two lows of $3591 & $4180... right in the middle would be $3885 which I could live with...
Here's the kicker, I'm in Columbus Ohio and not Craigslist, OfferUp, or LetGo has a 1992 RS w/ the 305 and similar mileage in a running condition for sale within a 200 mi radius. Do ins companies not know that 1992 was the the 25th anniversary but more importantly the last year of production for this body style? Thus a consumer (ME) is going to have a hell of a time finding another one!
I did not know you were in Columbus. If you have the car in your possession, are willing to take it to a different shop and would like it not to be totalled, feel free to send me a PM. I don't work in the business anymore, but I can pull some strings at the old shop and you may have a shop on your side to deal with the insurance company instead.
They offered $3K (Not that bad if I remove my 5th gen wheels & sound system) if I surrender my ThirdGen, BUT they stated I can retain the vehicle and be paid out a hair above $2K ($1K cost to "Buy Back).
*IF you have suggestions or negotiation tactics or insight please share ASAP... It's The General Ins Co, and they're not to consumer friendly or open to reasonable negotiations so I need a decision as soooooon as possible....
Last edited by 92RS-HeritageEd; Sep 27, 2018 at 02:28 PM.
1k buyback on a 3k car is rediculous. It's normally in the 10-20% range, with the latter being at the very high end. My '92 RS was totaled back in '05 I think it was, and the buyback on it was only 200 bucks.
If they are willing to pay 3k for it, they must be willing to pay to have it fixed also. That's the route I would take. If they refuse because they don't want to get hit with additionals on the repair bill, they should at least be willing to shell out the cash for the repair and let you agree to be responsible for covering additionals. It's a super easy repair, there shouldn't be any surprises.
Man why is it all ways third rate insurance companies ... If it were me I would counter and say you will take $2100. That is if they are willing to do it with a clean title tell them you would be willing to sign a waver stating you don't expect any warranty on the repairs due to age of the car.
Do you have full coverage? If so call your insurance company and ask for advice. If you have any legal insurance through work etc you could use that to pay a lawyer. You can counter with the NATA information etc.
You could always take the full 3k and watch the insurance auctions for the car and buy it back then... and for much less than 1k. But if its your daily driver that would be hard.
Last edited by Aviator857; Sep 27, 2018 at 03:15 PM.
1k buyback on a 3k car is rediculous. It's normally in the 10-20% range, with the latter being at the very high end. My '92 RS was totaled back in '05 I think it was, and the buyback on it was only 200 bucks. If they are willing to pay 3k for it, they must be willing to pay to have it fixed also. That's the route I would take. If they refuse because they don't want to get hit with additionals on the repair bill, they should at least be willing to shell out the cash for the repair and let you agree to be responsible for covering additionals. It's a super easy repair, there shouldn't be any surprises.
I've requested a callback from their management team, and exact figures via E-Mail... The TL Rep it was assigned to acted if I had no right to negotiation. They put me in a "take it or leave it" position and that's unsettling...
Originally Posted by Aviator857
And I agree 1k buy back is ridiculous it will sell for 300-500 at the insurance auction -- they know you have an emotional attachment to the car.
To make matters worse, they don't consider it a "Buy Back" they consider it "Retention Of The Vehicle" and based on anticipated revenue from salvage & cost involved in salvaging... retention of the vehicle is at a $1K cost w/ payout of $2K. I don't have an emotional attachment, If there was another 1992 for sale I'd take the $3K and run... heck if I could find a white parts car I'd try negotiating the retention of vehicle offer up to $2200 - $2500 payout but there aren't any 1992 Camaro's available within a reasonable distance... So IDK what to do because aftermarket parts & paint will exceed the retention payout i'm sure....
Last edited by 92RS-HeritageEd; Sep 27, 2018 at 04:17 PM.
If you want to fight it my best advice is consult a lawyer, every state is different and we only speak from personal experience. You should expect to pay 1/3 of the settlement with most lawyers. They know this so they know most people will not spend 1k to try to negotiate over a 3-4k payout.
I don't think the 3k is a bad pay out for your car in a TL situation, I do think 1k is way too much for retention/buy back (its the same thing).
Remember the insurance company isn't there to help you, I would put a dollar bet on the fact the TL processor gets bonuses for the cases he/she closes in a certain amount of time. Even you insurance company advice is suspect.
Lets think it through though
They will pay to pick up your car and tow it to a storage lot
they will pay for the storage fees
they will sell your car via coparts or other insurance auction, from the ones I've seen it will sell for less than $500 there, they have fees to pay there
... they may just tow it to a metal recycling place and get $350
Sure on paper they think estimated repairs-value of the car = buy back. But in reality if you don't keep the car they are likely to recoup less than $300.
In GA you are allowed to get 3 estimates for repair and the insurance company has too choose one of the 3 estimates or TL your car and give you book value. They already played their hand on the value of your car, if you show up with a $2500 or $3000 repair estimate then you can argue they are over valuing the salvage worth of the car.
I would take the $3k and find another car. It's not worth the investment in time or cost to try to beat the insurance company. If it was a $12k car, then maybe, but you would have had the proper coverage for that.
The car most likely wouldn't bring $3k before being wrecked. We find low mileage, clean IROC's and Z28's for between $5k-$7k frequently. Some original and some modded. Being modded, doesn't guarantee a higher value. In most cases, it devaluates the vehicle.
Your car would be in the $2k-$3k, before the wreck, and potentially lower after inspection.
It's your car, it's your decision.
If you want to fight it my best advice is consult a lawyer, every state is different and we only speak from personal experience. You should expect to pay 1/3 of the settlement with most lawyers. They know this so they know most people will not spend 1k to try to negotiate over a 3-4k payout.
I don't think the 3k is a bad pay out for your car in a TL situation, I do think 1k is way too much for retention/buy back (its the same thing).
Remember the insurance company isn't there to help you, I would put a dollar bet on the fact the TL processor gets bonuses for the cases he/she closes in a certain amount of time. Even you insurance company advice is suspect.
Lets think it through though
They will pay to pick up your car and tow it to a storage lot
they will pay for the storage fees
they will sell your car via coparts or other insurance auction, from the ones I've seen it will sell for less than $500 there, they have fees to pay there
... they may just tow it to a metal recycling place and get $350
Sure on paper they think estimated repairs-value of the car = buy back. But in reality if you don't keep the car they are likely to recoup less than $300.
In GA you are allowed to get 3 estimates for repair and the insurance company has too choose one of the 3 estimates or TL your car and give you book value. They already played their hand on the value of your car, if you show up with a $2500 or $3000 repair estimate then you can argue they are over valuing the salvage worth of the car.
call around and see if any of them have a white front clip.
The whole "get three estimates" thing is a very common misconception. The insurance company wants you to think it's required to get three estimates and then go with the cheaper of the three. But it's a crock of poo poo. You can take it to whatever repair shop you want and that's that. Leave the car there so the shop can write an estimate and turn it into the insurance company. An adjuster will then come look at the car and decide what they are willing to pay. A shop that cares about the customer will then debate with the insurance company as to if the car will get totaled or repaired.
Well I don't know where you're at....but I'd sell ya this beauty for $300 less the tail lights. Headlight header panel is good, too
I''m in Columbus Ohio. I was on the verge of stripping my 5th gen wheels & aftermarket audio system and putting the stock wheels back on and JVC CD player back in and accepting the $3K.... BUT depending on where you are and how I'd get the car to me is another story. Any other pics of it?
I've got parts, but they aren't white. There's a white '91-'92 for sale a couple miles from my house that is likely a parts car due to rust, but iirc, the fender is rusted too.
I've got parts, but they aren't white. There's a white '91-'92 for sale a couple miles from my house that is likely a parts car due to rust, but iirc, the fender is rusted too.
Do you have the entire front clip, and what would you be asking? Another poster offered an entire car for $300 lol....
