You know, I dont drive my car much either. about once per week now, and not every week. But really, if you have a leak in the AC system, you need to fix it or take it out. Even if I took my AC out as I was thinking, I would still drive my car in the summertime, about once per week. Hell, being a little uncomfortable driving my hobby car around once per week without AC in the summer,. compared to living in other places where the average guy cant even afford a car!!. Well anyway, I guess its all relative, but its important to enjoy what we have and appreciate it. I know I sure do..

 

Larry Dunlap and I have been talking off the board about the need for class divisions, but trying to figure out a better way to divide them up. Rather than basing the divisions on the type of motor, which is not all that fair, we came to the conclusion that if we divide it up similar to the way they do index racing at the drag strips (not bracket racing), it would be much more fair to everyone and would possibly get more participation.

Please read through this and post your opinions and whether it would make U more or less likely to participate.

Set up classes based on your reported 1/4 mile ET:

16.00 + up (only if we have 4 or more)
15.00 to 15.99
14.00 to 14.99
13.00 to 13.99
12.99 + faster

WE MUST KNOW IN ADVANCE BY AT LEAST A MONTH IF U ARE GOING TO RUN IN THE 16.00 AND UP CLASS, SO WE KNOW WHETHER THERE WILL BE 4 OR MORE CARS, SO WE CAN HAVE AWARDS MADE IN TIME FOR THE MEET!

If U run 2 tenths faster than your classifying time in the elimination rounds, --U are Disqualified! EXAMPLE: If U report a time of 14.35 used as your classifying time and U run 14.14 or faster U are DQ. If U run 14.15 U are ok and providing U won, U will advance to the next round. It will be a double elimination format--if U lose once U go to the losers side of the elimination ladder and have to lose a second time to be eliminated completely from the organized competition. The winner of the winners side will go against the winner of the losers side for the overall class/ time bracket winner.

Then the overall class winners will run each other. the winner of the slowest class will run against the next faster class--the winner of that will run against the winner of the next faster class, ETC., until there is one left standing!

Under this method, U will not be penalized by whether or not U havea V-6, a fast 305 or a slow one--U will not be penalized by whether or not U have a fast 350 or a slow one--ETC. It will be strictly based on whatever time U report as your qualifying/classifying time. An ample amount of time will be given the day of the competition to see what your car will run under the conditions of the track that day, so U can give an accurate classifying time.

Awards will be given in EACH class for:
Class winner
Best E.T.
Best MPH
Best 60’ time
Best reaction time

And:
Overall Winner



Oh Yeah---We have already decided the name of this meet:

“THE 2005 FALL BRAWL!”

Comments PLEASE!

 

Wea re talking heads up racing within each bracket, not "bracket racing" right?

OK if I have this right...
If I report that I run a 13.99 , I am put in hte the 13.99 to 13.00 class. If I then run a 13.78, I am disqualified. So it would make more sence to "SAY" I run 13.00. I'll be in the same class, but I won't get disqualified for running a 13.78.

Plus I don't think that it would be fair to disqualify me for running a time that is within my bracket, a time that the person I am racing could run without being disqualified.

 

Right --heads up racing-no dial your own time bracket racing. That would require the timing tower to put in times for staggered starts, which is probably not fesiable--not sure if we could get them to do tha for us.

The 2 tenths breakout thing is to keep the "sandbaggers" from using a classifying time of of --let's say just for the sake of argument-- a time of 14.30 to get in the 14.00 class, and then turning round and running 13.5's and blow away everybody in that class. At the same time if somebody uses a qualifying time of 14.10--if we do it where if U break class index of 14.00, it would not be fair to that person whos car gets a little quicker when the weather cool during the evening. So using 2 tenths quicker than qualifying time allows that person that runs right at the 14.00 range some room for error. It allows everybody the same margin for error.

U gota remember most of us are not experianced drag racers. U must also remember this is just for fun!!! We are not saying this is a perfect way of doing it. This is the best we have come up with SO FAR! THIS IS ALSO WHY WE NEED EVERYBODIES INPUT, IDEAS, COMMENTS, AND SUGGESTIONS!!!If we need to raise the breakout higher to 3 tenths or 5 tenths--that's cool--whatever works and everybody will be happy with!

Needless to say there would ( and I guess I should have thought of this earlier), in the 12.99 and faster bracket, there would NOT be a breakout rule. Since the purpose of the breakout rule is to keep the sandbaggers from running in a slower class than what they should be in, and since the 12.99 class is the fastest--there is no need for a breakout rule there.

If U have ideas for modifying this system or a better way of doing this--PLEASE SPEAK UP! Everybody I have talked to so far, thinks this is a better way than breaking it down by engine type. It is not true bracket as they do at the drag strips--it is a modified version to fit our situaton.

Maybe we should not have a breakout rule--I don't know--If we were all experianced racers, I would say yes, but like I said before, we are NOT--so for the guy that normally runs right at the lower end of the 14.00, that is just out here doing this for fun, that happens to run a 13.99--that person needs to have some room for error.

WE NEED POSITIVE, CONSTRUCTIVE INPUT HERE!

 

I think this system of time classes will be the best way to do it. A couple of comments

The race off between classes at the end seems a bit pointless. the winner of each class should be the low end of that class, so the closest race will be between cars that are about 1 second apart in times. Unless someone breaks there car during that race it would just be a formality

As to the other awards besides winner in each class, that is 4 extra awards par class, times 5 classes is 20 more awards, just over the 5 winners. I would think this is unecessary and maybe even obscures the fact that the winner of the drag race is they car that crosses the finish line first without redlighting. Anyway, assuming we have a fixed amount of dollars for trophies, I would rather see 5 nice trophies instead of 25 crummy ones.

As far as the breakout idea, it doesn't seem right or necessary that you could be disqualified for running a time within your own class. What's the point? You should be disqualified for running a time out of your class though. The problem with that will be the guys who run times close to the lower class, like me for example. I expect to run 13.2 to 13.1. If I was to be disqualified for running 12.99 this introduces the aspect of bracket racing that I don't like, slowing down to avoid being disqualified. I still think this is the best way to go though. I'll just keep the hammer down and if I run 12.9 then I will lose the race but be happy I ran a best ever time.

 

That was my point exactly!

Also, I thought I WAS being constructive, by pointing out what seems to me to be a serious flaw.

So I vote no on being disqualified for a time within your bracket.

On the other hand, it won't effect me either way, so what ever everyone decides is fine with me.

 

Nor I

 

Well, yeah maybe it is--just thought it would be interesting!


I agree to a point. We can probably get Kevin89formula to do the awards/ plaques again. Although I have not asked yet about this particular instance--he did say he would be glad to do this again in the future, when we did the awards for the Spring Fling. I was thinking U could get some of the small thin credit card size plaques for all the awards except the class winner. The small ones are VERY cheap, and get the more expensive wood backed plaques for the class winner.


That's the point I was trying to make earlier. If some guy that does not race much that is out here doing this just for fun, and his car is running right at the lower limit of the class and he breaks out and runs .001 under the class break, it is not fair that he get DQ. I'll give U a good example: Before Rudy wrecked his car, when we were out at HRP. He was running consistant 15.10's + or -. He made one run at athe end of the night when it cooled off @14.97. So if that happened here, he would be disqualified. That sucks! If we put a break out rule for everybody in the class, it would be fair for everybody. Everybody would be at the same advantage or disadvantage. Maybe we should make the breakout rule 5 tenths/ .5 sec. to allow more room for erreo. But if we don't do something, what's going to keep me (for example) running the 14.00 class. I know I am running 13.5's at HRP. If I do that I know I can beat everybody if I get out there and do the backet racing thing of locking up the brakes on the big end. That does not make any sense either!

Maybe the solution to this would be to not have any breakout rule, as long as U run within your class index time, and allow a 1 or 2 tenths breakout below the class minimum?

EDIT:

After rereading my post and thinking about. Maybe the best is to have no breakout like I said above and only allow .050 breakout from class minimum--IE in the 14.00 to 14.99 class, U can run a 13.95 and not get DQ.

Or another way that crossed my mind--since this is all in fun--don't have any breakout rule EXCEPT if U run faster than class minimun, U get one warning--if it happens again, U get DQ.

 

It's been my experience in organizing events that the more organized things become, the more of a hassle things become. I guess what I'm trying to say is, race who you want to race, and at the end of the day we can take the slips and figure out who beat who in what bracket, as opposed to saying only 15s can race each other and only 14s can race, etc. That way, if Zap and I paired off even though I'd be watching his taillights, I'd still be racing for my bracket class - whatever that might be.

At the end of the night, we all turn in our best slips and figure out who landed where. Just my .02

 

i agree with him, we are doing this for fun, why dont we just pit together and run whoever else we want , have some fun and see who clicked off the fastest 15 , 14, 13, 12, and 11 second pass

 

Well, i agree with keeping it simple, but it seems to me like we take away the competition part of it--the running an elimination ladder--it kinda seems like it would take a lot of fun out of it. Squaring off against somebody and winning (or losing) and advancing to the next round is part of the attraction here. That is part of drag racing.

If we were just gonna get out there and see what kind of time U can turn--anybody can do that anytime--and just post your time on the board. That's no fun. What's the point?

In an elimination event, U get the possibility of beating better, faster cars if U cut a good light, and to tell U the truth, if this meet turns out to be a "everybody get out there and make a couple passes and stand around and compare time slips type deal", I seriously doubt I'll go and/or participate. How boring! I KNOW what my car will run in the quarter mile. It runs 13.4's in cooler weather and 13.5's in hotter weather.

I want to square off against Larry, Barry and every other car that's in the 13 sec. bracket, and see if I can win each round and advance to the next round. Yes, I know it is to see who has the fastest car, but the whole point of setting up the classes is so we can have eliminations. If we are not going to have an elimination ladder ( a double elinination ladder at that), we do NOT need any classes, we do NOT need any awards, we do NOT even need this meet other than just a day hanging out at the drag strip.

 

Classes? We ain't got no classes! We don't need no stinking classes!

 

I like that idea.

 

My last post was a joke! But seriously, folks. If all we are going to do is stand around and jerk off and compare time slips with no competition or structure, Zap and I will go to HMP and beat on each other all day. (It'll be hard cause I WANT MIKEY) So let's give some serious thought to using classes and double elimination. I don't think, since it's all for fun and a good time anyway, that anyone would intentionally sandbag just to win the class, because you know how fast your car is, and by this time, so does everyone else. How about this? If you break out, you move up a class. For example, (He's gonna love this) Mikey's car is a 14 second car. If his new spark plugs and TPS sensor and 10 bazzilion HP clutch enables him to run a 13.99, he's now in the 13 sec. class. (he wishes) (Just kiddin) If you run in the 13's, you have a 13 sec. car! Pro-stocks don't run with funny cars.
CLASSES SHOULD BE AS FOLLOWS:
15.99 to 15.00
14.99 to 14.00
13.99 to 13.00
12.99 to 12.00
11.99 to insanity (I believe if you break 10.99 you have to have a roll cage)
Just remember why we are doing this.......FOR FUN! So let's make it F*C#ING FUN!
And even if you're eliminated, you can still race and beat up on someone in a slower class.
If this thing is organized right, it can be idiot-proof.

 

Larry, get on this thing and make it happen!

 

11.99 to insanity (I believe if you break 10.99 you have to have a roll cage)
Just remember why we are doing this.......FOR FUN! So let's make it F*C#ING FUN!
And even if you're eliminated, you can still race and beat up on someone in a slower class.
If this thing is organized right, it can be idiot-proof. [/B][/QUOTE]


under 11.99 you are suppose to have a 4 point but i think they are kinda grey on that rule. i had a four point in just so they wouldnt screw with me. the classes are a great deal and i think we should just have fun like you said even if we are eliminated

 

I know there was a street Corvette that went 10.98, and they wouldn't let him make another pass. No cage.

Thanks for your support.

 

you always have my support barry

 

I can't follow the whole thread from here, but Larry you started a good one!

I'll be there depending on date.

Sign me up Larry;

89 Formula
L98
14.5 and getting better!

Mike, I PM'd ya for the tuning offer, I'm going to need it now!

 

Well Im in Peru working and don't have time for a long post, so just a couple of quickies

I completely agree with Zap and Barry that just comparing time slips totally defeats the point of having a drag racing event. As they say, anything can happen in a race. Doing test and tune with no one in the other lane, or a 7 second dragster in the other lane, is completely different that sitting eyeball to eyeball with your dreaded nemesis (Texas LT1, Zap, etc) and wanting to have bragging rights when you beat them or having to endure those stupid beat you like a mule jokes . So you it requires coping with those extra factors, and thats what makes it fun

I think we should have classed based on time, and thats it. Keep it simple. We should have a loser bracket as well to keep those poor souls who lose in the first round interested.

I will have to think about this breakout idea. Thats the only thing IM not sure about.

I think this will be a great meet and I will do everything I can to make it happen.

 

It's "beat you like a RENTED mule"


The breakout part IS gonna be kinda tricky, although I don't think it will be the order of the day, I think we should make a provision for it. We have 2 choices. If someone breaks out, they can be DQ'd (we don't want to do that) or they can continue to race. I say if they break out twice in a row .2 or more, they should go to the losers bracket of the next class up. Yeah, it will be a hassle, but we're here to have fun, and I don't think anyone ahould be DQ'd. Period. Just a thought.................

 

I was looking at the calendar for HRP in November and the meet could be either the 18th or 25th. I believe thanksgiving is the 24th. What do you all think? I know it is kind of far in advance. Some people may be traveling for Thanksgiving so the 18th may be better. Will Texas LT1 be available that date? Lets get a firm date if we can. I vote for the 18th.

I think the DQ rule should be as follows: no DQ in your time class, more than .15 seconds below your time class you should be DQd. If you are running that much faster than you said you were going to run, you should have been in the other lower class. OK, if you did that you would have less of a chance to get a trophy, but heck, like Barry said, this is for fun. I always like to play tennis against a really good player because it brings up my game. Same with racing. If you are close, just go the lower time class and have fun.

 

OK, so there WILL be a DQ rule. If you are in the 13.99 to 13 class, and you run a 12.85, you're DQ'ed. End of story. The Great and Powerful OZ has spoken. Whoever is keeping track of this (Larry) is going to have to track this stuff.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Barry85Iroc
[B]The Great and Powerful OZ has spoken.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Anyway, technically, you would have to run a 12.8499 or lower to be MORE than .15 seconds below 13.0000. I was thinking .2 seconds but really, come on, .2 second is a big difference. Heck I saw differences like that after adding headers and a complete superram. Oh yeah I guess that was .2 second in the 1/8 mile.

Hey, I need to get these subframe connecters put on. Who do you know in our area?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Larry Dunlap
[B]
It seems like sombody posted here recently about sombody or someplace that could and will do it. I just can't remember who it was. Make a seperate thread about it and maybe they will jump in?

If all else fails I can refer U to the guy over at the race car fab shop where I get all my welding done. U just have to make an appoitment cause he's always backed up. Other than that Check with your local muffler shop--if they have the more modern welding set-ups they can usually do it.

Also, get out the yellow pages and look thru the performance or racing section, U might be suprised what U find-- call a few and ask for referrals!

 

AS for the breakout rule, In your abscense, I have talked to a few of the people here on the board (including the great OZ), about doing the following and they all said it sounded like a good idea.

Have a .1 breakout of class rule, BUT also have a provision where, first time U run quicker than the .1 class breakout rule, U get 1 "official warning" if U run .1 quicker than the class minimum, THEN U are DQ'ed.

EXAMPLE: In the 14.00 to 14.99 class, u can run 13.90 all day long and U are cool. If U run a 13.899 or faster, U get a warning the first time, and if U run a 13.899 or faster the second time,THEN U are DQ.

Well, actually since we have agreed to run a double elimination format, U would go to the losers side when U are DQ the first time. If U runn a 13.899 on the losers elimination ladder, U are HISTORY.

 

Hey Guys I should have my car done by the time of the race and would love to come out there and run with you guys.... its still in pieces right now, when i bought it it had a spun rod bearing and so i tore it apart and found that out so im waiting for some money to get a new crank and recondition the rods and get the gasket set and bearings and all that, but i should definitely be done by then....... I have a 92 B4C 1LE Camaro with a 355 / T5 combo, headers and other stuff, i havent even had the chance to drive it yet so i dont know times or anything, when i get her done ill dyno it at school (UTI) and then take her to the track to get a run time for you guys, well let me know when you plan to have this little shindig and ill keep in touch....
oh by the way the guy that went backwards at Sealy is a student at UTI and hes in my class right now, i heard him talking about it and everyone was laughing at him for it, well ill call it constructive criticism, hell never do that again im sure

also if anyone wants too run their car on the dyno at the school I may be able to work something out, they are pretty lenient about letting nonstudents bring there cars in but a student or instructor has to run it on the dyno, heck on of the students' friends brought over his LS1 camaro with only an intake an some exhaust mods and ran 330 hp and like 340 tq or something near that, pretty good for stock...... anyways let me know if anyones interested, ill be in the Hot Rod classes for the next seven weeks so ill be around the dyno alot and can fit in a fellow thirdgenner

keep in touch
tim

 

ME ME ME pick me! PICK ME!

 

let me know when you are available, im at school from 630 am to 1245 so it might be hard for some of you guys to work it out but let me know when you are available and ill see if ill be out in lab that day, from what I understand they have an open dyno day the last thursday of every class, which would be next thursday, so you may even be able to get it done then, ive heard of a guy that came up there with a supercharged ZO6 last week and tey let him run it..... so let me know and i can give you directions to get there and you may just have to ask the instructor out there at the time if you can run your car real quick


i know i cant wait to get mine on there
anyone wanna run?
oh ya let me know what you have that you want to run, just so ill know, lol
what do you have Zap? any mods to that L98?


tim

 

I also would love to dyno my car. Im available so let me know when and I will be there.

By the way, I am the great OZ on this deal. Be wary of imposters

 

does everyone know where UTI is at? 45n past beltway 8, exit airtex, go past airtex turn right in between pappasito's and Tom Peacock Nissan, go past one stop sign, school is right past there but to get to the dyno room you need to go into the gate on the left and youll be in the parking lot and on your right youll see a gate going in between some buildings (it looks like your not supposed to go back there, but its ok as long as you know where your going ) just make that right in the gate and go to the end of the "hallway" and take a right, theres no way to get lost its small back there, and the dyno's are right there on the left, if people are out there just follow the sounds of open exhaust , most of the time theres t buckets back there roaring through an open exhaust lol... follow the sounds of pure pleasure

trust me the whole schools not this fun, most of its classwork and electrical crap
but ill ask my teacher about the open dyno day for next thursday and let you know tomorrrow

 

Thursday being tomorrow or next Thursday / August 4th?

"what do you have Zap? any mods to that L98?"
See sig below.

 

next thursday the 4th ill be out there with the dyno so i could run it then but after that every third thursday they have open dyno day so anyone can come out but ask the instructor to pick someone resposible to drive it, or if the instructor wants to that would be best, dont let them have just one of the dumb*** students run it... next open day would be the 25th of august and so on.. so if anyone wants to come on out let me know so ill be looking for you

have fun
im glad to help anyone get there car on the dyno so they can see what they have so its no problem for me and ill do what i can to help you out

tim

 

oh ya 1BAD91z i talked to my instructor about your tuning abilities and he wants to talk to you more about getting some of the schools cars tuned right, i think youll like these ones, they have an LS1 camaro with a procharger on it but it not tuned right so its not running like it should.. and a twin turboed Supra (*****), and an 04 GTO with a rear mounted turbo kit that they are working on.... let me know if you are interested, and i can really to him your contact info, you could make some money off the deal im sure

 

I'd feel better if I drove/dynoed it myself--if that's possible--as for others driving it on or off the dyno--I not real comfortable with that. I will not leave the car and not be there if that is required. If I can't drive it then the only other one I would let drive it that is down there is Jim Jenkins the tranny instructor--I've known him for 20 years!

 

Mikeee tune a R!cer!

 

im taking my car over to g-force to get a final ls1 edit tune on the dyno in a couple weeks

 

if you bring it over to the school for insurance reasons you arent allowed to drive it ont the dyno, but you dont have to leave it with anyone you are there teh whole time watching it, you just have to stand right outside the dyno room and the bay door is open and its only 5 feet from the car, its just for safety reasons, we arent even allowed to run the dyno computer, we only run the car, there are some instructors that allow the students to do stuff but then its mayhem in there... my instructors strict about it for safety reasons
as for Jenkins you never know, he is there still i just dont know what hes teaching right now? you migh tbe able to get him too, and there are people you can trust to run it on the dyno, you can usually tel the dumbasses from the people who know what they are doing around there by the way they act

well its an offer you guys know where its at and everything so if you want to.. then just let me know

 

AS long as I can stay and watch.....I'm cool!

Now it just depends if I can break away from work......Even though I am self employed, I'm swamped with work right now, and everything has time deadlines.

I will know for by Mon/Tue at the latest.

I'm surprised everybody on the board here is not lining up for a free dyno pull!

 

ya im surprised too, heck they even let you do as many pulls as you want, he usually goes 4 pulls at a time but they would let you do more if there was time,
oh ya there are night classes there from 2 till 8 so if anyone wants to go at night just walk up and say hi and introduce yourself and theyll let you run it

 

Zap, when are you going? I would like to go at the same time

 

Not sure yet--like I said earlier, I won't know if I can get lose until Mon/Tue. I think he said next Thur--as far as time,it would be whenever he says to show up!



Hey Larry,

Back to the original thread here, U never made any comment about my latest post about the breakout thing--maybe U did not see it?

reprint below:

AS for the breakout rule, In your abscense, I have talked to a few of the people here on the board (including the great OZ), about doing the following and they all said it sounded like a good idea.

Have a .1 breakout of class rule, BUT also have a provision where, first time U run quicker than the .1 class breakout rule, U get 1 "official warning" if U run .1 quicker than the class minimum, THEN U are DQ'ed.

EXAMPLE: In the 14.00 to 14.99 class, u can run 13.90 all day long and U are cool. If U run a 13.899 or faster, U get a warning the first time, and if U run a 13.899 or faster the second time,THEN U are DQ.

Well, actually since we have agreed to run a double elimination format, U would go to the losers side when U are DQ the first time. If U runn a 13.899 on the losers elimination ladder, U are HISTORY.

 

I was underthe impression when Barry said "the great Oz has spoken" he was referring to this comment by me.

At any rate this was my attempt at closure on this issue. We certainly have time to discuss it.

What about the date?

Let me know on the dyno thing

 

ya next thursday would be best... get there as early as you can just in case, in between 645 and 1130, and the afternoon classes are out there from 230 to 730
hope to see you there in the morning

 

I'll let U know one way or the other!

Craig

 

Dude I'm just not gonna be able to make it this time. I'm too swamped under with work. I was starting to get caught up and got a bunch mor time sensitive orders that I HAVE to get done in the next few days........

I REALLY APPRECIATE THE OFFER.......I'm not turning it down......just a raincheck

Besides that my CVR starter has srtarted dragging in the last few days--just got through cleaning terminals and charging the bat. but still dragging--need to double check the connections at the starter itself,ETC, before I pull it.

 

Wheel Spin - let me know when you are ready....PM'd you back.

TexasB4C - I PM'd you back to........did you send your instructor that e-mail/PM, and if so, what did he say?



and Barry ........... anytime you wanna see my tailights ALL the way down the track, all you have to do is buy me a clutch!

I wont race it broken again..

 

ok Mike, seriously, SHUT UP about the clutch. we know you claim to need one, and guess what, none of us are going to "donate" to your clutch fund. How about you save the next clutch post for when you actually have one and you want to race and still get beat. mmkay?

 

WISH i WAS THERE I WOULD JUST DROP THE N2O AND A LOT OF ALCHOL the watch the mild maner 350 detonate, but I might win one race

later and I hope you guys/dolls or what ever have a great time

 

I would love to see Mikes car without any problems, running down the track, but really the clutch deal has gone on long enough. No more clutch excuses, earn the money, buy one and put it in, I know you can do it