91ChevyRS

I just wanna get a basic idea on how much I should look forward to spending if I were to get my seals replaced.

The car has been smoking on startup for about 15k miles now and I think its time to replace those seals. I am in Tucson.

Anyway here is the story, I know my engine and I know it semi-well, the TBI has proved to me to be an easy engine to work with. I have changed alot of the external parts such as O2 sensors, TPS, spark plugs, fuel filter blah blah blah. I basically gave the car a full on tune up, minus the wires and Ignition Module.

Anyway, my friends and I, we fix our cars alot and we generally spend alot of time around them. We are what you may call "Car junkies" my question is this, if I were to replace the seals with my friends and I (mostly gonna be me) do you think I could be able to do it. I got quoted about 1100 dollars to fix my seals at one point and I don't know if thats the price for every shop or not. I'd really like to fix the car and not burn any more oil, I jus't dont see it as a good health factor to the car.

I am sure this question has been asked before but how much are seals...and would you really consider them really hard to replace?

EDIT: I was just wondering if Valve covers could also be the cause of smoke on start up or burning oil. My valve covers are leaking and I might as well as replace the gaskets too....

3GTAs1TA1Z28

If your valve covers are leaking that would make you dump oil on your manifolds and yes it would smoke.....

If you have a compressor you could change the seals with out even pulling yours heads.......You would just loosen the rockers to close the valves then fill the cylinder with air which will hold the valve closed use a vavlve spring compressor pull the retainers then the springs slide off the old seal put the new one on put the spring back on then retainer then move on to the next cylinder....

Pretty easy..............Assuming of course you have access to an air compressor....

'Shifter

iTrader: (2)

I'm about to spend $300 to do mine....it ain't worth teh beat up hands for me to do it myself....I'm taking teh
opportunity to put new springs/retainers/keepers/pushrods and a set of Comp Cams 1.6 Pro Magnum roller
rockers on as well as cool new GMPP valve covers....

91ChevyRS

who will do yours for 300 dollars. Honestly if thats all it costs to replace mine by professional I might as well as do it.

The problem is, I have bad experiences with Tucson mechanics...but I have been more on the lookout to detect trouble nowadays. The only reason why I would tackle it myself is because its a learning experience. But I am just really scared of what could go wrong.

As far as Valve covers go, all the autoparts store carry these Edelbrock chrome covers that are like 30 dollars, the elite ones are I think 50 or 60. Anyway, I was thinking of getting those...

Duck

I've read some good online reviews of Arizona Automasters in Chandler, and have them bookmarked as a possible place to take my Camaros for mechanical work after I move to AZ and when I don't feel like wrenching myself. Sorry I don't know if it's a good place or not, but their ads look impressive. Check the BBB...

Arizona AutoMasters - Welcome

"At Arizona AutoMasters we specialize in top quality service, repair and modifications of all 1980 and newer Corvettes, Camaros, Firebirds, & GM trucks. We are conveniently located in Chandler just east of the I-10 freeway. All work is performed by appointment only.

OFFICE: 480-592-9677 or MOBILE: 602-616-2963
6700 W. Chicago St., Suite 7 Chandler, AZ 85226

Keep in mind that shop labor rates typically run around $60-100 per hour. I'd estimate a shop will allocate 2-3 hours to pull the plugs, shoot air into the cylinders and change the seals [Vitron of course]. That's $200+ right there. So considering new plugs and the cost of the seals, $300 is not unreasonable for a garage to do the work, unless you find some "mom and pop" garage desperate for jobs.

So what's the options... I know these well 'cause my '87 IROC with 175K on the clock needs valve seals and blows a smoky cloud on startup after sitting all day or night. But hey, the engine otherwise runs fine and only uses a quart of 30-wt between 2,500 mile oil/filter changes, so I ain't gonna mess with it just for a little startup blue. Eventually, as the miles pile up, it will need a valve job, or the engine will need rebuilding or major work such as rings and the heads will come off. Easy to do valve seals then, and it may be another 100K, 200K or who-knows how long it will last 'cause I don't beat on the car or race it.

So I'd advise just accepting the condition and explain to anyone concerned that older hot rod SBC's do that when they get a lot of miles -- it's normal. Don't blow $300 fixing this little thing...

But if you really can't live with it, changing the seals yourself is easy and the process should be well-documented here in TGO.

91ChevyRS

I am gonna tackle the job myself...I plan on keeping the camaro for a long time. I can't risk having to do a rebuild or anything, I really wanna get this car back up in shape once more.

Synapsis

Tucson car junkies still exist?

My car has been due for valve seals for about... 3 years now. I actually have almost everything I'd need to do them, but I'd rather upgrade the whole head at once. (Which is why it's been 3 years.)


Duck: He said he's in Tucson, at current gas prices going to Chandler would add another 40-50$ to the price.

TonyC

iTrader: (1)

It's not too difficult, I've done it before. You need an air compressor and that air fitting tool, a valve spring compressor (I used a lever type one, worked so-so, but got it done) and I don't think there are any other special tools needed. Best of luck!

Tony

'Shifter

iTrader: (2)

$30, or even $60 for centerbolt vc's? This I gotta see.....

91ChevyRS

actually just go ahead and disregard what I said, I have no idea what the hell I am talking about. I went to the autoparts store and looked at the wrong kind. Those Spectre or whatever they are called valve covers are thirty dollars and not the Edelbrocks

The regular edelbrocks are like 50 bucks the elite ones I think are between 100 and 150 I can't remember.

90RS305

I may commission you to help me with mine. My car has been running like a piece of ^!@#$%! lately and I think that may be one of the biggest contributors. Won't be for a little bit though...

Duck

Tony, during the valve seal replacement, it's an excellent opportunity to replace valve springs, since they're removed anyway during the process. Is this worthwhile to do on an engine with say, 100-150K? Would changing them do much to avoid catastrophic engine failure due to an old valve spring breaking?

ephebert

I have ordered my parts for replacing the Vavle Seals and live in Gilbert. This is something that's out of my scope of machanics but am willing to learn how to do this. Anyone in the valley who is willing to help I would be very greatful and would help them in return.

91ChevyRS

just a question though, would replacing the seals make my car run any better. If you guys look on the tech forums I posted a topic about my car burning oil within the engine.

its been driving fine (aside from a slight miss which can suddenly turn into a very noticeable miss on some days) When I gather up enough cash, I plan on taking it to the chevy dealer so they can fix my seals and take care of my misfire problem because I am completely stumped on what it is.

I would expect the car to run a hell of alot better...but then again.

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

I do not see any post that remotely describes how to do this so i will give you shot on what i did.. they may not be entirely right but it is what worked for me.
Go ahead and remove all spark plugs..
you will need to rent the following:
Valve spring compressor (I perfer the two armed claw, part number 27011 at autozone... free rental.)
and air fitting for a hose, so compressed air can give force against the valves.
obviously you will need to remove your rocker arms and push rods, get them out of the way for now... make sure you make some sort of organization try or box to ensure they go back in the correct order.
now you should be looking at some valve springs...
it is a good idea to buy new ones, i bought some from compcams for $50 bucks and were very nice...
Plug your air fitting to the first cylinder you are working on.
The claw compressor has two arms one is slightly longer than another which means it is perfect for springs... connect the arms about 3/4 the way down the spring and line up the tool and tighten... keep tighting until spring is relatively loose... then push the spring down and lightly tap the end of the valve and the valve locks should pop up, get some needle nose pliers and pull them away... loosen the compressor and the spring will pull right out with the retainers...
At this point you will be looking at a valve an oring and a valve seal...
If you started at the first valve regardless of what side you have started on the exhaust valve...
they are as follows for the heads
[ E I I E E I I E ]
The very tip of the valve there are two grooves... the top one (which is for the valve lock) and the second, which should have an oring...
pull the oring off, they are usually brittle and break right off.
Now for the valve seals... the exhaust valves have a small umbrella looking seals those pull right up, so do so.
when you go and buy parts you will have to obviously buy the seals...
there are intake seals and exhaust seals... they all come with orings too.
you will also need to buy some moly grease.
now get your exhaust seal, rub some grease inside it pretty good and the bag of seals should have a small clear valve tip cover... slide it on the end of the valve...
rub the valve steam with some light grease and slide the valve steam seal over the valve stem...all the way down. Pull the sleeve off and install an oring on the second groove.
now hopefully you bought new springs.
grab the spring and dip the top in grease and then put the retainer back on and make sure that is greased up too... put some grease on the bottom of the spring as well..
Compress the spring with the compressor... slide the spring on, take your valve locks and put a fair dab of grease inside them... this helps with installation...
the valve lock is sorta like a trapezoid... the bottom is smaller than the top.
put one half of the lock inside where the stem is and move the spring around if need be till it clicks in... same for other side.... then pull up on the spring to test it.. decompress spring and voila! you have one if 16 done... lol
the process is the same for intake valves, except they have a different style seal...
This is best of my knowledge... not saying i know much but there you go.
-Cale

Duck

Pull the sparkplugs and check their condition [sounds like the car needs a tunup anyway, so install new ones]. If the plugs are not being fouled with oil, changing the seals won't make it run better. If they are fouled with oil, the valve guides themselves might be worn too far, or there's blowby from the rings. My '87 has needed valve seals for about 90,000 miles, still runs great, still gets about 20 mpg around town, it doesn't blow smoke when accelerating. My '92 has the upgraded seals from the factory, so no valve seal problem. Valve seals are pretty close to the top of the lubrication system, so not much oil can drain down there when the engine is shut down.

If the oil consumption is not excessive, say about 1-quart per 1,500 miles, the engine is mechanically healthy. If your engine uses a lot more, the problem is more than valve guides. Oil leaving the engine ends up either dribbling on the ground or smoking out the exhaust.

CamaroStud1988

Doing them your self is not that bad.i did mine.took about 3 hours.if you have tools and a manual. and a spring compressor.its easy.if not,take it to a shop.if your already in their id just throw a cam in it anyways. your already halfway their.

91ChevyRS

the car is pretty much up to date on its maintenance. I have changed out the spark plugs with better ones (infact the old ones I had pulled out previously, when i bought the car, they were just normally worn out, infact for spark plugs that haven't been changed out in 5 years, they looked pretty good.

I will double check and remove the spark plug from the engine once more but I don't think the engine problem is that serious.

The last time I did an oil change was...I believe mid April, I checked the oil recently and its looking pretty good, I can probably go for another 500-1000 miles before I go for another one.

But of course I put in Valvoline oil in my car this time, which in my opinion is alot better than that Castrol GTX oil I was using before.

But I mean oil consumption stays pretty consistent...I keep a close eye out for it.

Duck

So the bottom line is that if the plugs aren't oil-fouled from valve guide drip, changing the valve guide seals won't make other drivability problems go away. Spark plugs seem to last a long time in TPI engines ... the cheap Bosch platinums in my '87 have about 90K on them are probably due for replacement, but the car is daily driven just fine and hauls *** at WOT, so I figure I'll wait until misfires occur or the MPG drops. IMO the best way to change the valve seals is to simply use the new ones installed on a set of bolt-on Vortec heads!

91ChevyRS

well the reason why I suspect seals are the problem (and I am pretty sure they are)

is because I just dont think its an overall good idea to leave my car burning crap up within the intake. What if things get a little too heated in there and I have something far more than a seal job.

This car has been through a tough life previously, I just want to give it a good run for its money thats all.

Duck

Giving our 3rdGens TLC is always a good idea! Please provide feedback on the results after the seals are changed.

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

I want to see feedback as well.

IMissMy86TA

I dont think there will be any feedback

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Wow, what a bump.

FWIW, I did VGS on an '88 LG4 in August 2004. It went from burning over a quart a week, to way less than a quart a month with daily driving.

My Dad did VGS a couple times on his mod motor full size Fords; they can have similar issues. Some of the squad / taxi service guys say the ones with oil coolers have fewer issues.

91RsNate

iTrader: (1)

I can do pretty much anything and everything concerning engine/transmission and differential work. I have a small side Business going to make some extra Cash. Nates Performance. 520-954-6282. Those valve seals are cake and the other guys are correct with doing springs while your in there if the engine has some miles.

IMissMy86TA

AZ be too far for me