Some people just don't have a clue.....

Two things needed for horse power and torgue, AIR & FUEL!

If you can't get air into the motor, you can't get either of those out of it (HP & TQ).

You're not going to get enough air into a 383 through a base manifold that flows 250-260 CFM to make any kind of large amounts of HP or TQ, it's physically impossible. (Edelbrock 3860 extruded honed, others a lot less)

It doesn't matter what you put on top of that manifold, Super Ram or otherwise.

You need at least 300 + CFM. (a small carb manifold) or a highly modded TPI base.

It's too bad we can't get the manufacturers to see this, and make us something that works.

SDPC tried to get Edelbrock to build a Vortec manifold to work with Vortec heads and they screwed up big time, that thing doesn't even flow what a stock factory manifold flows (226-237).

Yeah, yeah, I know they all claim TPI is dead, if they built a good base, most people would throw away thier old stuff and buy it.

The way we mod a base, it flows 315+

Just my $.02, take it or leave it.

BTW that 90 HP came after the base was modded to flow over 300 CFM.

 

I'm biting my tongue, slapping my wrist and trying to remain calm. Just some real bizarre statements and personal attacks in this thread. All I'm trying to do is give my personal experiences to the original poster to help him decide what is best for him. Those of you attacking me so be it. In the end it will be up to the OP to make the final decisions. Thank You TA and Don for putting in your personal experiences in trying to help the OP.

 

Really? Am I that difficult for you to understand, or are you making assumptions that are totally different than what I am talking about? Assuming a small bore/destroked SBC, which is going to give you about 315 CID or so, and by his estimate, 500 HP, we contrast that to a 500 CID engine making 180hp. Much bigger engine/much less power vs Much smaller engine/much more power. I can't put it any simpler than that. So, tell me again, how is the bigger engine an advantage? Take your time, try not to break too many crayons.

If you TUNE the bigger engine to put out more power, you will have an advantage, but that backs up my argument and contradicts your argument that bigger displacement is always an advantage. I can show you a 65 CID motorcycle engine that puts out more power than the 500 CID engine mentioned, so again, displacement means little without the tuning to make it work. On SuperRam engines that will need to pass California Emissions tests, there are no "off the shelf" components that work very well, you need to do some re-engineering to get them to work well, and a displacement increase can actually loose power as it can make the airflow even more turbulent if you do not resolve the issues with the "off the shelf" parts. Go ahead, ask me how I know this.

Nobody is talking about otherwise identical engines because he has yet to decide on the huge majority of VERY CRITICAL components (none of which are the crankshaft!), and my argument is that getting that combination right is a lot more important than a few CID of stroke, but I can't get my message across without all the "internet experts" blathering on about why he needs to focus on stroke instead of spending his time/money where it will do more good, on tuning his combination to what he wants to do with the car.

I'll be waiting for your "I won't like the response" to clarify why displacement, and stroke in particular, is more important than tuning(selection of cam, intake, heads, headers, valve size, port flow, injectors and injector tuning, etc etc). This should be interesting...

TA

 

Why are you comparing a 500CI Caddy with 180hp to what *I* said? Its completely irrelevant to ANYTHING I said. So no, *I* did not contradict myself. Sorry pal.

Now as far as your inane argument that I expected you to make, here's a dd combo with only the CI changed from 265 to 383:

Which one makes more power? Case closed.

 

Now if you guys want to keep making dumb arguments, let me know when you get here:

http://www.ultrastreet.net/engines/472_bigdawg.asp

Seems to me thats more than a 315ci with 500HP.

 

Now as far as sanctioning bodies are concerned, cost concerns? Sure maybe some of them like dirt track claimer motors. You're making an exception just to make an argument. WHY? (thats a rhetorical question)

I am pretty certain that F1, IndyCar, Nascar, and many NHRA classes like... oh... Top Fuel, Funny Car, spend unlimited amounts of money on motors and have caps on CI to limit power gained by extra CI. They make them try and get it elsewhere. Can you? Sure, there's proof of that every day. Thats not the point. If NASCAR did not have a 358 CI limit, they'd still be running 440 Dodges and 460 Fords and the like, and... they'd be making more power.


**crickets***

Sorry for polluting the post, but too many people want to say "I can make more than you!" rather than offering sound advice. I see some of it up there, asking what you've got, what you want to accomplish, pointing out that even the aftermarket bases suck (but they're still better than stock), etc etc.
383 vs LS, almost in this state its a red tape decision. With SBC parts in hand, hard for me to suggest anything other than a 383 since you already decided to ditch your current 350 (that is being ignored for reasons I cannot comprehend).

 

Currently I have a 2 bolt main 40 over bloxk, that now has low compression in 2 cylinders... I am not sure what I am going to do just yet. A lot depends on where I am going to be getting stationed. I haven't totally throw out the idea of another 350:::

 

lol!

Best wishes to your build OP

 

Do you really believe DD numbers that you fed into that ?
(never mind I think you do)
That crap doesn't even take into account the requirements needed to make that kind of power in the real world.

 

You can miss the point if you want, no skin off my back. Kind of like that old saying about leading a horse to water... cant make em drink.

So bullydawg, you have half a SR? A stock base and SR runners and plenum? And the part about the 350 being ignored was not to you, seemed you had made up your mind between 383 and LS.

So I wasted some of my life digging up a familiar 383 SR and... which 355 around here is running 117MPH in the 1/4? Anyone?

 

I have the complete superram with accel base. I am still in the waters. I lean back and forth from 350, 383, and Ls1.

If I can get away with getting my my block machined another 10 over, and jsut get new pistons and rings, ill go that route.

 

"If I can get away with getting my my block machined another 10 over"

If I'm following you the block is already .040" over. If so you need to get the block "sonic" checked to see how thick the cylinder walls are. Hopefully your machine shop can do that and advise you.

 

Another idea that will work well if you need to deal with this quickly and on a budget is to score a short block from a Chev/GMC Vortec truck engine. They do not have the fuel pump boss, which is not used on the injected engines anyway, but otherwise adapts pretty easily (I think the timing covers are different) and will bolt in. You can get 'em pretty cheap, I've seen fresh rebuilt Vortec short-block 355s' for about $1,000. (I'd pull the pan and install ARP rod/main bolts if you're gonna flog it). You can then put your budget money into getting your heads/baseplate professionally ported, and with a good cam and good headers, you will be right around 300 RWHP, pass smog and still get over 20 MPG on the open road.

Going to an LS is actually pretty expensive, as to do it right, you need far more than just the engine, you will also need special headers, engine mounts, an electronic-speedo manual or a computer-controlled automatic transmission and torque converter, ALL the wiring and sensors (4 oxygen sensors!), you need to swap in the gauges with the OEM LS "check engine" light, and to put the ALDL plug under your dash in the stock 4th gen position, just a lot of nonsense that makes things very complicated and virtually requires a donor car. True, it has a number of advantages and has great performance potential, but it is definitely not the cheap or simple way to go here in California, especially if you are on a budget and do not have somewhere long-term to store the car while it goes through the process.

It depends on what your budget is for $ and for time. The more you can learn from other peoples' mistakes, the less you have to spend of both to get where you want to be.

TA

 

I just thought of another option, get a used 350 block and bore it .040, use your existing rotating assembly and just replace the rings and rod/main bearings with new ones. I would pull the old engine down first to verify that the low compression is not a blown head gasket or a broken piston/ring lands.

Just more to ruminate on. Good luck.

TA

 

I would not recommend going any further than .040 over on an OE block, regardless of sonic checking. Going that thin can often lead to hairline fractures. Only Bow Tie or after market HP blocks are cast with thicker walls to allow for bigger bores. I myself do not build strokers. My background is in NASCAR and Ive seen too many stroker grenades. As I said before, I dont mind winding up a screaming 355 to get into the power band. I built my motor to run 7,000 without any issues and it does this very well. And with EFI I can have high rev power and still maintain decent drivability.

However, for the street a 383 is a pretty decent option. Someone mentioned piston velocity. This is the same thing that makes the stroker less attractive for high rev racing but it also makes it very attractive as a stomping street dominator. Chevy High Performance did a build using TPI on a 383 and got something like 525 ft/lbs and 400hp with a fairly mild build. I found this article through a link from this forum. You might want to search it out. Good luck whichever way you choose to go.

 

Gas tank swap with the LS too.

 

Very entertaining thread i must say
$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I would hope you could make a 383 reliable, streetable and fast if you have the money to swap a LS1 in, and do the upgrades to it.

Good luck with what you decide. I think you should turbocharge it

 

Why Lock my thread? This is actually useful Info! Maybe not to you, and if you dont like my thread you dot have to post in it. I would love to turbocharge it, but I need to keep it Cali Legal unfortunately!

 

only emotion i could find that was something jumping up and down