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Thirdgen outhandling a Ferarri...CHP Article

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Old Mar 9, 2003 | 03:26 PM
  #51  
BretD 88GTA's Avatar
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Originally posted by Pat Hall
With GM constantly trying to save money on production costs, you're trying to tell me they had different control arms on the Z/28's? All the control arm does is hold the coil spring in and attach the lower spindle. Why the hell would there be any need for a different design between the two models? As far as different rubber in the bushings, that's a total riot! Energy suspension wouldn't be selling poly bushings like hotcakes if GM had actually designed their bushings for long life, durability, and performance!
I've never heard anything about about different A-arms, but the 1LE cars did indeed receive better bushings. So, GM did/does produce more durable performance bushings.

Next you're probably gonna try to convince everyone that the Z/28 got "special" sway bar end links that don't rot, become as thin as a pencil, and break just like the rest of the camaros on planet earth because some yahoo salesman at the local chevy dealership said so right? I've yanked lots of parts off of Z/28's and RS's, and the only differences I noticed in the suspension parts were bigger sway bars and different spring ID tags. The rest of the pieces are the standard issue, stamp them out cheaply by the thousands chassis pieces.
I won't try to convice you the Z28 got better sway bar endlinks, but the WS6 Trans Ams definitely did. My car, from the factory, had urethane bushings on the sway bar endlinks. In fact, I just pulled my rear sway bar last night and the original 15 year old bushings are still in pretty good shape.
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Old Apr 22, 2003 | 09:48 PM
  #52  
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From: Albuquerque, NM
Car: 1966 El Camino Custom
Engine: 350
Transmission: 200R4
Axle/Gears: 3:73 12 bolt with Brute Strength
Those interested in the best handling for their third gens. should check the web for track days offered for both Hotchkis and Global West Customers. I know that the Global West people offer tech support on these track days and can really get you dialed in. It is best to have the knowledge to optimize your suspension, especially if it is adjustable. Steve Spohn might have track days also. I would check. He is the king of customer support and I would not be surprised if he offers this to his customers.

I watched the Atlanta Runoffs last year and of the top three finishers in C sedan, two were third gen.s (1st and 3rd), one was a 4th gen. (second) and best of all....no Mustangs finished on the podium. Gettie Up Lil' Ponies, Gettie Up!
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Old Apr 24, 2003 | 01:20 PM
  #53  
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i have that article i always use it to back up how good our cars handle. i got the hotchkis springs my rear end looks centered fine.Thats car had the 36mm front bar they just replaced the rear with a 1" bar .
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Old Apr 27, 2003 | 06:49 PM
  #54  
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Car: 1991 Z28
Engine: 350 L98
Transmission: T-56
Originally posted by 25THRSS
sweet, i thought the z had a wonderbar or something like that, but guess not, makes me feel even better about my little rs
My 91z has a wonder bar stock...
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Old Apr 27, 2003 | 11:57 PM
  #55  
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BretD 88GTA, i belive my sway bars did also come with poly bushings... my dad has owned the car since new, and i asked if he ever got the front or rear rebuilt with poly busings.. he said never... the bushings are 16 yrs old, there still red and look brand new... saved me some money when i threw on the 36/24mm sway bars...
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Old Apr 28, 2003 | 12:07 AM
  #56  
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Originally posted by bigals87z28
BretD 88GTA, i belive my sway bars did also come with poly bushings... my dad has owned the car since new, and i asked if he ever got the front or rear rebuilt with poly busings.. he said never... the bushings are 16 yrs old, there still red and look brand new... saved me some money when i threw on the 36/24mm sway bars...
When I rebuilt my front suspension on my IROC I bought some parts from the dealership...any part that came with a bushing came with a poly bushing.
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Old Apr 28, 2003 | 06:19 PM
  #57  
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From: Chester, VA
Car: '88 GTA
Engine: L-98
Transmission: T-56
now if i wanted to could i go to a gm dealer and get actual iroc springs not just a generic spring kit?
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Old Apr 29, 2003 | 12:35 PM
  #58  
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Car: `86 SS / `87 SS
Engine: L69 w/ TPI on top / 305 4bbl
Transmission: `95 T56 \ `88 200-4R
Originally posted by bigals87z28
oh and there are no 34mm sway bars that are hollow..the only ones that are hollow is the 36 that came on the 1le and some WS6 cars...
The 32mm bars on thirdgens were solid.

The 34mm and 36mm bars were hollow. I've had one of each in hand all at the same time. The weight difference says the 34 is hollow. On a friends 1991 low option 5.0L/M5 Z28, it had a 34mm bar. On his high option 5.7/A4 Z28 it had the 36mm bar.
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Old Apr 29, 2003 | 12:43 PM
  #59  
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Car: 1990 Camaro RS
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Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Eaton Posi, 10 Bolt
Originally posted by bigals87z28
there still red and look brand new...
i thought that the factory polly bushings were white/cream colored, but then again i have been at work for 6 hours now and my brain is not functioning at 100%
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Old Apr 29, 2003 | 12:45 PM
  #60  
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Car: `86 SS / `87 SS
Engine: L69 w/ TPI on top / 305 4bbl
Transmission: `95 T56 \ `88 200-4R
Originally posted by Pat Hall
GM will do anything to save a buck or two when it comes to production costs.
Very true.


Why do you think I just finished spending a fortune on all the parts for the 1LE brake upgrade when it should have been the standard brakes on all the cars! With GM constantly trying to save money on production costs, you're trying to tell me they had different control arms on the Z/28's? All the control arm does is hold the coil spring in and attach the lower spindle. Why the hell would there be any need for a different design between the two models? As far as different rubber in the bushings, that's a total riot! Energy suspension wouldn't be selling poly bushings like hotcakes if GM had actually designed their bushings for long life, durability, and performance!
Poly bushings are a joke. More like poly torsion springs with how they bind. Del-a-Lums own poly a-arm bushings.

GM DID put different bushings in a-arms. A 1LE is one example but not the only example. I've already seen, wrenched on, poked and prodded a-arm and body mount bushings (non thirdgen) with harder rubber than other ones when a single durometer of rubber would have done.



Once again, this would've cost them more money to produce two different styles of bushings. Next you're probably gonna try to convince everyone that the Z/28 got "special" sway bar end links that don't rot, become as thin as a pencil, and break just like the rest of the camaros on planet earth because some yahoo salesman at the local chevy dealership said so right?
I can give examples of end link bushings that are different material (poly or plastic) vs. their rubber counterpart in non performance apps. Look at a 79-81 WS6 front bar. Wouldn't that have taken extra $?
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Old Apr 29, 2003 | 09:53 PM
  #61  
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Car: `86 SS / `87 SS
Engine: L69 w/ TPI on top / 305 4bbl
Transmission: `95 T56 \ `88 200-4R
Originally posted by Dewey316
i thought that the factory polly bushings were white/cream colored, but then again i have been at work for 6 hours now and my brain is not functioning at 100%
I know the reddish ones were used in the 80s and I know I've seen the offwhite ones on 4th gen f-bodies. HTH.
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Old Sep 30, 2003 | 01:38 AM
  #62  
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stock IROC suspension is good for over a G of cornering with Hoosier Road Race tires. I've never driven a ferrari, but I'm sure many of you iroc people running good performance tires have made hard turns at 50+ MPH with all the stability of a train on rails. I was never for the road race scene but I see a lot of 3rd gens tearing that arena up, more so than the drags actually. LS1s don't have **** on 3rd gens in the twisties...
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Old Sep 30, 2003 | 10:26 AM
  #63  
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From: Mostly in water off So. Cal
Car: '87 Chev
Engine: 60*V6
Transmission: DY T700
Originally posted by Black363IROCZ
... with all the stability of a train on rails.
Somebody call for me
Attached Thumbnails Thirdgen outhandling a Ferarri...CHP Article-onarail.jpg  
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Old Sep 30, 2003 | 10:37 AM
  #64  
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Axle/Gears: 3.42 Eaton Posi, 10 Bolt
i like that plate dean

i'm thinking about getting 'ON RALZ' for mine (only 6char+a space in Oregon) thats if i dont' get 'BLWN RS' (need a blower for that one though )

btw, when is the $500 challange going to happen i'd like to drive down there and watch that, maybe if you loan me your tires, i'd run too
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Old Sep 30, 2003 | 10:48 AM
  #65  
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From: Mostly in water off So. Cal
Car: '87 Chev
Engine: 60*V6
Transmission: DY T700
Originally posted by Dewey316
i like that plate dean

i'm thinking about getting 'ON RALZ' for mine (only 6char+a space in Oregon) thats if i dont' get 'BLWN RS' (need a blower for that one though )

btw, when is the $500 challange going to happen i'd like to drive down there and watch that, maybe if you loan me your tires, i'd run too
Thank you sir.

I tried for OnRails and several variations of it, but So.Cal is the hotrod capital and hard to get good plates anymore.

$500 Challange- never got a taker and Mods got on my butt for rousting the guy alittle- oh well- I had my fun.

I am actually going out to the garare right now to tear down the car and go through it- New hiems everywhere, gotta pull the tranny- Front pump seal showing moisture only after 8 months (bad seal- **** happens)- going to pop in an ACPT carbon shaft also (something I have want to change awhile back but never got to then. Pulling tranny so I figure nows a good time (I hate working on cars if I don't have to -I'm getting old).

Have a good day
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Old Sep 30, 2003 | 11:16 AM
  #66  
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Originally posted by Black363IROCZ
stock IROC suspension is good for over a G of cornering with Hoosier Road Race tires. I've never driven a ferrari, but I'm sure many of you iroc people running good performance tires have made hard turns at 50+ MPH with all the stability of a train on rails. I was never for the road race scene but I see a lot of 3rd gens tearing that arena up, more so than the drags actually. LS1s don't have **** on 3rd gens in the twisties...
I recently just raced my IROC in an Auto-X for the first time. It was a little bit of a larger course...I didn't drop below second and was in third at one point really breifly. My suspension is completely stock, and with my engine mods I only run a mid 15 or so in the 1/4(%^@&ING LG4)...but I was extremely competitive, beating a WRX STI, Mid 90s Steeda Mustang, a couple Porche 944 Turbos and quite a few other quick cars.

SO many people under estimate the IROC's handling till they get a ride. I let a kid who owns a late model Nissan 240SX with quite a few suspension mods and who has been auto-xing for a while ride shotty with me around the course and he said," "Holy $hit! I have a whole new respect for this car...this thing stays so flat! It has no body roll what-so-ever!"

I get that response pretty much every time I give someone a ride...they expect it just to pull hard in a straight line and blow in the corners, but it's just the opposite...
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