Ok everyone says that upgrading the caliper and keeping the stock rotor will have almost no affect because the added braking power in the 1LE setup comes from the Rotor. The rotor is a larger diameter and disapates heat faster also with the rotor being a larger diameter the leverage with which the braking force is transfered is increased. These two items contribute the most to the increased braking power of the 1LE setup. Of course the dual piston calipers help but not without the larger Rotor.

Guessed where I am leading with this yet? Yup would it be possible to just add the 12 " Rotor and relocate the existing Brake caliper? This should increase braking power without having to purchase new calipers, master cylinder, proportioning valve etc, etc,

Just thought I'd through it out there for you guys to hash over.

Thanks for the input
Ric

 

Hit the library and read up on moment arm physics, then consider the additional forces you'd be placing on whatever you fabricate to relocate the caliper further away from the rotor center to clear the larger rotor.

Personally, I think there are better ways to die...

 

Are we not talking about the same moment arm that would be employed in the 1LE set up. All they do is drill a couple holes and install a bracket to move the caliper out farther from the center of the Rotor.

Ric

 

The main difference being the 1LE assembly was designed by one or more degreed engineer(s) to stand up to the stresses it will see.

 

1LE brake setup uses a different spindle.....similar to the design of a Caprice....You can go to www.thunderracing.com and they have various brake upgrade kits.

 

I think the discussion is that moving the caliper away from the center would cause more stress on the caliper. I belive the 1LE caliper is larger?!? In other words the pads stay where they are, but the caliper is is taller to fit the 12" rotor. That plus they are dual caliper for the larger drag that the rotor would be put on the pads.

Will it work, I don't know. Will it work better, I wouldn't think so. I have been surprised by more things, but it could work.

 

The 1LE spindle is pretty much only different in that the ears for the iron calipers arent there and the 2 bolt holes where the adapter brackets bolted up are bigger, thats why all the 1LE kits are just modded stock spindles, so are the baers.

 

Consider these two scenarios: Drag racing where the brakes are applied once for a short period of time to slow the car and then not used untill the next run, given time to cool ... Roadracing where the brakes are applied at every turn, hardly given time to rest, and very likely to heat up and cause brake fade.

In the first scenario there, having a stronger caliper and the stock rotor would be more effective than the stock setup. The stronger caliper applies more force on the rotor slowing it down faster. Of course this means more heat at a faster rate but up to a certain point (weekend warrior speeds) the stock rotor can handle it. The car is stopped and the rotor can cool down. Its not applied again for a while. Works great unless you're trapping at 150mph or something. By no means would this be a replacement for a real brake upgrade kit in a real race situation. But for the weekend warrior this would work out great.

Now in the second scenario, the brakes are use alot more and alot more often. Imagine calipers are stock but the rotors are upgraded. The same ammount of force applied to the stock rotor is now applied to a larger rotor. No extra heat is generated. No extra force is generated. Brake performance would be very close to the stock setup. In fact the stock calipers/pads might not even generate enough heat to get the brakes 'in the zone'. Having too much cooling can be bad too. Talking a real race situation, the stock setup would not be good enough. You would need to start changing parts ... but having a good brake setup for roadracing means all the parts compliment eachother. The calipers should match the rotors for the best performance and vice versa. All the parts of the 1LE setup contribute to the increased braking power. Not any individual part. To do it right everything should match.

 

Calipers are stock but the Rotors are upgraded. Extra force is applied in this configuration due to the fact that the moment arm is longer. The same amount of piston pressure applied to a larger diameter Rotor increases the braking force because the monent arm is longer.

Calipers are Stock but the Rotor is upgraded Extra heat is created due to the increased diameter of the rotor. For each revolution of the rotor more surface feet of rotor passes through the pads at a higher number of feet per second therfore more heat will be generated. This increased heat will heat the pads more than the stock setup yet the rotor will remain relatively similar in temperature due to its increased mass.

I know that this is not going to give the same results as a full 1LE setup but I believe that it would be a considerable improvement over stock.

Ric.

 

Go for it then. If thats what you believe, no sense arguing. I would be interested in seeing the results. As for me, I think stronger (dual piston per say) calipers with modded stock rotors would make more of a difference than stock calipers and bigger diameter rotors. I dont know why you think a bigger rotor would create more force and even more heat, but maybe you know something I dont.

Just some things to think about:

If the pads and calipers for both scenarios are the same size, the same ammount (or very close to the same ammount) of force will be applied, completely independent from the size of the rotor. When you talk revolution, a bigger rotating mass will move slower and require more force to rotate than a smaller rotating mass.

Good luck!!

 

So has anyone actually done this yet? In theory, what ratchet is saying makes sense right? Increased diameter means for the same braking results, less force would need to be applied (versus regular rotor) ?

 

Crap that's old.....

It's been done. A LOT of the Monte Carlo guys run the 1LE rotors with a Caprice caliper and are happy with the results, but with the many dual piston caliper upgrades out there now, it's not worth the effort IMO...you can do better than that. But you are right in that you really need to increase the size of the rotor to get better performance, and why not upgrade to a better caliper at the same time.


Ed

 

Yea its old , i've been doing some research on this board

So, I'll look into 1LE calipers also then (maybe spindles from junkyard)... and probably convert rear drum into disc... AFTER I wear out my Aimco Extreme front rotors and my Performance Friction Z-Rated pads. I bought them in the anticipation that it would be something better than stock until I have money and time for the upgrade.

 

Search "brake upgrade".

C4, C5, LS1 brake upgrades are out there and for a great setup, look into the Wilwood setup from Spohn.

Ed

 

I'm getting a discount on some aimco extreme 1LE rotors so I was thinking I should get them and use them instead of buying regular aimco extreme rotors.... since I'll be doing the upgrade later on anyway.

Think its a good idea? ... getting the 1le and using it rather than spending extra for 2 sets of rotors? I can't afford calipers or anything now so that will have to wait for later.

So in order to do this, what would I have to modify? I would need a Caprice caliper and Caprice spindle? If so I probably won't do it, I can just go with the 1LE route, I don't want to spend too much on things now when I can get better parts later. Is there any simple way of just being able to put on the 1LE rotors?

 

Whoa...slow down a bit. You can't run a Caprice spindle on our cars. They have upper and lower A arms, we have a strut design up front. You can't just run 1LE rotors and stock calipers or the stock spindle, they won't fit. You need modified spindles, 1LE calipers, carriers, and mounting brackets, new 1LE bearings, and bolts and stuff. Spohn offers the whole 1LE kit so take a look at what all is involved to swap over and the parts that are used:


http://www.spohn.net/product.cfm?productid=1371

Ed

PS: Click the link in my sig to see my complete 1LE brake upgrade. It shows the stock brakes which you have and all the work needed to make the swap.

 

lol, umm yeeaaa i knew that ... (i'm still learning )

Thanks, you gave me all the info I needed. That kit looks sweet, but I am able to get a discount on the rotors and calipers from somewhere else, so I'll probably try to get the parts separately rather than that kit.

Actually I can get the LS1 parts cheap probably, so I'm going for that... Then I'll probably get a 4th gen rear to take care of my rear drum problem... damn deciding what to do is hard, I just got this car and my list is growing like crazy...

 

I completely understand car enthusiasts never ending quest for "vehicular diversity" but this thread just makes me wonder. First off WHY??? I just did the LS1 brake upgrade to my 92 so I have some first hand experience with this subject.
First- With the minimal amount of money it takes to perform most of the DIY brake upgrades it just doesn't make sense to only do half of a kit. If your on a budget you can always buy complete assm. from the junkyard. Even if you buy all new parts (which is what I did) your still under the 500.00 mark.
Second- Your doing just as much work as you would if you did the complete upgrade, possibly more in fact. You still need to mod the spindles, the adapter bracketry would be so rediculously complex to accomodate the floating caliper it would just be a horendous investment of time and money...and if it isn't perfect..well.... I suppose if you wanted to get really creative you could cut the spindle...move the factory caliper attatchment points and re-weld the assembly, but you wouldn't catch me driving a car with brakes like that!
Third- Ever compared the surface area of a z06 or LS1 pad versus a stock camaro pad? Check it out sometime you'll see what I mean.
Fourth- Big rotors...Small calipers...downright goofy looking.
-Mike