I have a ws6 88 gta will adding the wonder bar or/and a strut tower brace eliminate squeaks and rattles?

If so what brand should I look into?

 

I belive it should have a GM wonderbar on it.

Installing SFC/subframe bracing will help more with squeeks and rattles.

 

No Firebird ever came with a "wonderbar".

No those things will not "eliminate" squeeks and rattles. SFCs will help, but not eliminate them. The 2 front braces mostly help eliminate body flex around the strut towers and steering box and idler arm, such that the front wheel geometry and alignment is more consistent. It will help the car to feel more "solid", especially noticeable when going over bumps and turning at the same time.

 

I would recomend one, IMO it showed a bigger improvement than the strut tower brace, which kind of impressed me.

 

Well for starters a STB / Steering box support (AKA wonder bar) will not eliminate squeaks & rattles.
1) STB is a handling improverment to give strut towners additional support.
2) Steering Box Support (AKA wonder bar?) is what it is named. GM added it to the IROC with the then new 16" wheels to help with those added stresses on the steering box mounting.

 

Ok, I stand corrected. I thought part of the WS6 package was a steering brace.

Anyway, I say if you want to get rid of squeeks, start with SFC's. Then start hunting your noises and shimming them with felt washers n stuff.

 

I added a wonderbar to my87 ws6 car with about 150k on it - it helped but not a whole lot - but theyre cheap, then added STB wow - Big Difference ! alot of noises went away - i'd recomend both on any f-body youll like it :lala:

 

I also add'd a wonderbar onto my WS6. I didn't see any improvement from rattles, but there was a handling difference.

It already had Spohn Boxed SFCs, LCAs, brackets, and 245/50 R16s all the way around.

I noticed the difference right away. It made the front end feel tighter. It would respond better to quick movements. If I knew it would have made that much difference I would have spent 60 bucks on it a long time ago. For 60 dollars I would rate it a strong buy.

I've yet to try a STB.

SFCs will stiffen a car up though. I even believe I had better traction afterwords probably due to the car not flexing so much.

 

1LE's did... I've seen a certain 92 TA 1LE with one.

Kat

 

I have an 88 Iroc that had the "wonder bar" and 34 mm sway from the factory.


I have a BMR two point strut tower brace, made a substancial difference.
Just added a 36mm gm sway bar ( This thing is obsolete so get them while you can) and a TDS wonder bar as an upgrade.

to tell you the truth, I didn't expect much - wow was I wrong, just that little bit made the turn in much better, the steering feels absolutely great, I didn't know a iroc with kyb shocks could handle that good.

Reccommend the TDS, and big 36mm sway combo best handling inprovement for me.

for squeaks get subframes (weld in , not bolt on) structural ridgidity will improve.

for squeaks- start tightening everything, make sure everything is maintained.

 

Subframe connectors did wonders for my cars feel and helped keep alot of squeaks away. If you want to minimize squeaks disassemble your dash and put a dab of RTV between every bolt mount, works wonders and will not deteriorate. Plus, the dabs peel off in one piece if you choose to remove them later. Between the RTV, subframe connectors from spohn, and lining my car with 120 s.f. of sound deadener it is stunning how quiet it got!

 

I looked through your page, that is a nice car. I am in the process of doing exactly what you just did, only my motor/tranny upgrade is pretty much done. Car is just about painted now.

I am really interested in doing that sound deadner as well, that looks good. Where did you get it? Was it expensive? Did you line EVERY inch of the interior?

Thanks.
My gauges are all installed already in the dash though, it wouldn't be worth for me to pull the dash appart to line it there. Stock stuff is ok there.

 

I have owned 80's cars for a long time and the squeaks and rattles have always bugged me- BUT i was able to reduce them to near zero on my 84 TA with ws-6 springs and poly bushings. Most of the rattles are from the interior plastic panels...........some come from the dash. While restoring my car I used small dabs of builder's glue ( liquid nails) when reinstalling the large plastic interior panels. After the glue "sets" the panels no longer move relative to one another. Thus that particular squeek "stops". Even a small bit of glue works. DOn't use huge amounts- you are not trying to weld the parts together. WHen you go to remove the panels later, the glue bond can be broken just by pulling on the parts to separate them. This also worked great on an extreamly noisy dash in my 1979 dodge camper.

OR you can install a roll cage like my 87 IROC. The interior is mush quieter from squeeks now. Pat

 

It is sooo nice to have TGO back. I am planning to buy a wonderbar, STB and just about every other suspension item wxcept for SFC's. I use the car to autocross and they are not allowed in my class. I have an 89 TPI TA and I am looking for STB recomendations. Many of the bars will not fit a TPI TA. I know that the BMR bar fits but that piece of flat bar in the middle looks like it weakens the bar quite a bit. I think that Edelbrock makes a 3 point that fits but I am only allowed to use a 2 point, can the 3rd point be removed? Has anyone had success with a different bar on the TPI TA? Brand and part number if possible.

 

In my research I have found that 3 point bars have the ability to crack the windshield.

I am going with the hotchksis 2 pt bar.

 

It'll never happen. I have run one for years on a very solid suspension car with everything solid bushings.

Souseless, You can get away with a slightly larger bar on a car without SFC's. Bar size is always a crap shoot just as spring rates are- they go hand in hand and it really depends on the individual car and its other modifications and factory options (weight, bias, etc) PS- I saw where you quoted me on FRRAX about the rollcenters Those guys never even answered your question- they get off on their little tangents- JonA is your typical "booksmart" engineer- I see guys like this all the time that talk the talk but go nowhere on the track. Their overanalysis style prohibits them from trying anything other that their hypothosis yeilds because on paper its the only way to them.

 

RTFC
Yeah, they did highjack my thread to further debate another ongoing thread. I was hoping they would respond to the quote but they instead went on to debate wether or not the adj. PHR height was a worthy tuning tool. I am certain that it is a useful tuning tool but I still am not sure how the rear RC relates to the front RC particularly when it comes to a lowered 3rd gen. I have been told by someone whose opinion I trust that the front roll center drops quite a bit (compared to the rear) when the car is lowered. They never did seem to get that I wanted to know how the front related to the rear and that the rear alone was not my interest. I would prefer not to do something that screws things up and requires extensive work to counteract. Anyhow back to this thread.

Any comment on my BMR observation? What about the Edelbrock? I will take a look at the Hotchksis bar, thanks. Any other options for a TA TPI. I have even considered making my own. Welding is no problem are there other things to considerations? What would be the best location for the connections?

 

If you have no problem welding then you should be able to make a (wonder bar)steering brace with ease. It's my plan. Think about it 10$ in metal 30 minutes in time no body will ever notice it cause it sits so low.

 

Front does drop more in retrospec to the amount the rear drops. My experience with 3rd gens is to drop the rear roll center just enough to level the bar at stagnant ride height regardless of front height. On a V8 3rdgen you actually want the front roll center in the weeds because they do push going into a corner at lower speed hard braking, but for roadrace you'd want to level the roll axis out a bit more by lowering the rear or raising the front to balance out mid cornering (like on a high bank turn or long sweeper) but may need to increase the rear bar size to compensate for lowering the rear roll center- a 2mm increase would be sufficiant for a 1" drop in most cases- a skid pad test will tell you more than I could in words whether you are pushing or loose at steady state cornering slightly under throttle. Then if you have rear "compression" shock adjustments, you can play with them one notch stiffer or softer as well to see if that helps any.

STB's? I have no clue for a TPI. I run a TPI Edelbrock 3pt STB on my V6 and assume they fit the V8's like intended? Biggest worry is the stock strutmounts. If you are class restricted to stock units, make sure they are in good new condition minimizing flex of the rubber insert. If the rubber is bad and flexing, then no STB will help at all.

 

Hotchkis STB on a TPI car.

 

picture:

 

The nice low price of a wonder bar keeps me from doing the layout work myself. I would expect it to be a 3-5 hr project when all is said and done unless you have one you can copy. The STB looks like it would take the same amount of time and will save more money that I can use for parts that I can't fab like tires. Still would look at buying one, I like the design of the Hotchkis bar but they do not say that it will fit a firebird or TA. The hood on the TA drops off faster than a Camaro. I suspect that this is why BMR has that flat bar in the middle of their brace. I used some of my daughters playdough to measure and there is only about 3/4"-1.125 inches of clearance over the TPI depending on where you are measuring. I did this with the sound material in place so there is more to be gained but not too much.

 

RTFC
I have ordered Ground Control caster/camber plates that will eliminate the rubber strut mount point so the STB should help out.