i think if i get this kit im gonna mount the compressor under the plastic on the passenger side of the car to keep it a little more quiet.

 

You could always hide it under that great big Mecham wing

 

Jason emailed me back he said it comes with the ride pro controller.

 

ughhhh, i like my spot better , .

 

wholy cow has this thread gone gone nuts.....I will see if I can help clear things up! " Stand back, I dont know how big this thing is gonna get"

First off, lets disspell some of the myths..... and I will start with what caught my attention first. There is no doubt that advertising dollars can and will effect the outcome of alot of testing reports. Now lets stop and take a good look at this.... with the magazines that were mentioned above, we did no previous advertising with them and some of them we still do not do any advertising with. The reason we are now is because we now offer a new line of performance suspensions that we did not offer previously. Now the second and my favorite....... neither one of the drivers that came to our street challenge recieved a pay check from us. Fact is, the lady that is in our marketing dept, used to work in the NASCAR arena, knew them previously and asked them to come in and give an honest evaluation. For us, it was a do or die kind of deal. We invited a slew of people out to have their way with our cars and some of our customers and dealers cars. To reitterate that fact even more, we have never done any advertising with Autoweek TV, Horsepower TV, or Speedvision. They were all left alone to evaluate the cars at their pace and report what exactly they experienced.... and they did.... Not only did they get to drive them on a closed coarse but we also let them take the same vehicle down country roads that we plotted that was full of dips, pot holes, turns, ect. So what you were reading was not a track only evaluation. By the way, one thing we did not note because we did not want to throw mud at any of the spring manufacturers, but the Camaro in question actually had a set of lowered performance coil springs in the car. Now with that out of the way.... lets move on to the technical end of things
First off, an airbag is a spring. infact the correct terminology would be "airspring" not airbag. Another not so well known fact about airspring is that they exhibit a progressive spring rate just like a performance oriented coil spring. Just like a conventional spring it has to have a shock absorber or just like a conventional steel spring you will get the bouncing sensation like said above. The real key to getting an air suspension to handle is to choose the appropriate airspring and run it within its correct parameters. Also just like any static steel suspension you have to do your homework in setting it up and using the correct accessories for making it do what you want it to do. I am not going to sit here and claim that airsuspension is the "sliced bread" for everybody. I am only going to give you the mechanics, advantages and you can figure out for yourself if it is for you or not. For a guy that is strictly setting up a track car.... this may not be his loaf of bread. On the other hand it may be....
The biggest advantage to a properly built airspring suspension is the adjustability. If your system is designed and enginieered properly. Then the suspension wil actually react very well to 90 % of your driving requirements simpply at ride height. The reason they can do this is because we can engineer a system to lower the drive height of the vehicle and run a progressive spring rate spring that will react well to roadsurface changes. The other benefit is that unlike a steel spring, an airspring does not transmit frequency. So alot of the road surface variants that you feel with a set of performance springs you do not feel with an airspring suspension. Because the steel springs will transmit that frequency from the control arms or axle, through the spring to the chassis. A common missperception is that you have to make wide pressure changes in order to get a car to handle differently. No doubt that it will.... gross changes in PSI will give you gross changes at the wheel in both height and road feel. In reality, minor PSI changes as little as 2-3 PSI will not aesthetically effect the vehicles ride height but can make substantial changes in the way the car is acting. That is how you see these guys that are using these suspensions to their advantage. Just like, I have a few customers that have installed these systems on dedicated drag cars. They will manipulate the spring even from left to right in the rear to prelaod one side of the chassis to get the car to launch harder and straighter. A few of those guys have even gotten it down to a track tempature, ambient tempature art and making as little as 1-PSI changes. Now another benefit is that we are reducing unsprung weight. The weight value of an airspring is substantially less than a coil spring. Now I know that by the time you add the remainder of the compressor system your weight comes back close to what you have gained but the is the difference between unsprung weight and weight that you have the ability to place where you want.
The truck application talked about above is actually a bad refernce. When you take and add an airspring to an existing leaf pack, is for supplemental reasons only. The only thing you have done is essentially increase the spring rate of the rear of the vehicle. You can not take the bad ride quality out of the truck until you eliminate what is causing the bad ride which is the leafs themselves.... It would be like turning a 3/4 ton truck into a 1 ton truck. The other reasons that could have ben causing a bad ride would be improper installed height and or improper air spring used in the kit.
Anyway.... there you have it in a gigantic nutshell and if you actually made it this far and you still have half a brain left.... you need to get your self a beer and take the rest of the day off

Tony....

 

thank you tony , im glad i emailed darren and you signed up , this is just what i wanted to hear.

 

Thanks for clearing that up i will be calling you guys in the near future as soon as the camaro is ready to hit the pavement.

 

If you guys have any technical questions please feel free to ask away.... If you have any direct product questions I would feel better if you called us or e-mailed us directly. I just dont feel good about clouding up someones forum with blatant shameless self promotional posts and I just wont do that....

 

tony do you have pictures of the car raised up and lowered and at the ride height it will be , these are the pics im really interested in . Well i really wanna see lots of pics if you have them .

 

I want some more thirdgen pictures also and where you guys mounted the compressor.

 

I would assume that the best place to put the comp. and tank is in the trunk, we didn't put a compressor kit on that car yet. Jeff did a really nice job on his car though, I am sure he has some pics yet.
I don't have any pics of our car, but it is approx. 2" lower than factory at ride height and an additional 2" fully deflated.

 

thanks tony for adding your .02 cents.



guys the car will look and react just how mine does with adjustment. you might get a slightly higher lift out of the front with their new setup as my air struts don't allow as much of a range upward however if they are even the same height it's more then enough to climb ditches. the rear height is fully inflated on the pictures many of you have seen which is a very high lift.

as far as lowering. fortunately just as tony explained, they build their cars to work properly with the right pieces of your suspension, it's not meant to be the lowest but they go very low. the car will only go as low as your components will let you in the end. with the stock setup that would typically be to the bumpstops. you can modify the suspension if you really wanted to in order to go even lower but with many of you this will be enough. i know the rear is built to rest on the bumpstops, i assume they did this with the front. my setup has a bumpstop of sorts basically in the strut setup so that it keeps me from damaging the car by going to low.

many of the other companies build air ride suspensions basically for the show purpose to go as low or as high as possible with the vehicle not taking into account other things as air ride does. if you want the best working system with great user interface and excellent customer support air ride technologies makes some of the best components out there. in the end you just have to ask yourself is the type of advantages and features woth it, if it interests you in the least bit you won't be disappointed.

 

That is exactly what I was getting at before. You don't get it all. Please, everyone cut thru all the BS crap in this thread, and listen to what their employee has to say about this. The CAR WILL ONLY PERFORM AT A SET LEVEL. You do not get the end all suspension that some people in this thread would make you beleive. You don't get a steller ride, road racer handling, and a dragster like launch, and any ride height you choose. There is a specific ride height and PSI at which this system will actualy perform, anything other than that, and the balance and everything is thrown off. This was my first point when I posted, and I beleive Tony just confirmed it.

Just out of curiosity, Tony, how does your system perform if you inflated the bags so the car was at stock height. Or how about if you wanted it down 3"? I am willing to bet that it handles like crap, because your effective wheel rates are all screwed up. Not to mention the geometry changes that go into small changes in ride height.

How will their tire life be, if they are 1psi off? will it effect ride height enough to cause 1/16" of unwanted toe?

 

no one here believes you can get the same performance fully lowered or raised high. what tony said was reconfirming what has been spoken before.. you don't drive the car like that, the suspension is setup to work at an optimal level which is typically around the range of a pro-kit stance for driving. you could drive it raised up or fully lowered but it wouldn't be wise.



lol... it's obviously going to handle bad if you raise it above this or below this. 3" lower then what it should be and your almost sitting on the bumpstops.. come on now. the ability to add a little bit here or there on all 4 corners as well as detract some if needed is a nice benefit. it doesn't take much to change how the suspension works which is very nice. hopefully tony or someone else from ART will step in and explain it better.

 

First off, I wanna say thanks to Tony at AirRide for coming to the forums to answer our questions. I remember you from the sportruck.com forums and I know you're very helpfull/imformative. I have one question, and its about the weight. You mentioned that the weight of your airsprings are lower than the weight of a coilspring. Since I dont really have access to your parts, I was wondering if you could let us know how much these airsprings weigh? Also, how much would the rest of the supporting system weigh with your advertised kit there? I'm just curious, I'd like to compare it to a weight jack / linear rate coilspring setup I have sitting here on my desk. Thanks!!

 

I have a question for you Tony. BTW, thanks for taking the time to add to this thread.
Does the air inside your airsprings compress or is it displaced? What I am trying to get at here is if you take the example given in a previous post with the balloon...press down on it and it squirms around...that is because the air is displaced rather than compressed...ie, the balloon expands. But if you were to take an air cylinder for example, and block off the ports...when you either try to extend or retract the rod, it wants to spring back. That would be because the air is compressed. It seems to me (and it makes sense) that your airsprings would be operating more on the compression side rather than displacement? Am I understanding it correctly?

 

Explain this then (And my air system on the truck currently is AirRide).
This truck handle very very well "for a truck". Matter of fact, it will probably beat the crap handling wise out of "most" cars on this website. It is far from stock, however, it does have a de-arched rear leaf setup on it. Frame is custom welded for strength to reduce flex, 1 1/4" rear swaybar, Koni's AND Rancho on-the-fly adjustable shocks on the rear to bump up damping with load increase. Its a '89 Chev 1/2ton with a Currie 9" rearend and 4wheel disc. Nothing under this truck is stock, Nothing. Not even the body-to-frame mounts. This is MY daily driver, the Camaro you all have seen pictures of is my wifes daily driver- which one do you think I have built for my daily fun?

Without anything in the airbags (yes I run them empty when I don't need them, with an open line valve so they "Breathe" and don't inhibit the suspension, this truck rides great. I built it to have fun in. Now, it is a daily work truck and it is common for me to have something in the back of it "Most times" that will range from 300lb load to as high as 3500 lbs I occationally take in the bed.

I have a standard ride height that I maintain in this truck otherwise the carbonfiber wrapped driveshaft will hit the crossmember if it compresses too much from a load (I have wiped out 1 CF drivesaft on it before, yes it was expensive). So I have easily learned the system and the PSI required to maintain that fendergap on the rear wheels based on what I have in the rear (Easily to figure, 10 50lb bags is 500LBs load, I run the system on 12psi to set the rear to normal ride height- HERE'S THE CLINCHER!
It starts to ride like sh*t even though the bags are inflated just enough to compensate for the heavier load. The *** end of the truck will "Dribble" over bumps with the air in it. *** help me if I take that load out and keep the bags at 12 psi- I have to drive like a normal human being at that point or I'll end up off the road in a ditch-I AM NOT EXAGERATING. Now with the load I described above, the truck will handle that 500lbs without the AirRIDE assist and it will handle great, it just sits about 1" lower that standard ride height and I have to pump the Ranchos up to compensate my rear dampering for the heavier load.

I keep telling everyone, I know what the heck I am talking about- How many of you use them daily? I would never puit these things "fulltime" on a Camaro. Sorry Tony, but your product does its job for what I bought it to do, but not for a sports car, for a truck, RV, or van.

 

Ok guys here we go....

Dewey.... actually is what I am saying is that with a properly engineered system you can actually have a fairly wide range of ride quality adjustment without effecting ride height. Now you are correct in the fact that you do not get quality ride at all heights.... but that is not what the intended use is and I think the misscomunication that you are seeing here is that the other guys on the forum know that as well and I think you guys are getting your wires crossed. Everybody here knows that you dont get exceptional ride quality and handling at all heights and that there is a designed "ride height" that needs to be dialed in. The benefits of the airsuspension is that you can get that lowered ride height and lower center of gravity without loosing your ride quality by going to an overly aggressive coil spring. It also enables you be able to lift the vehicle up in order to clearance driveways, speedbumps, whatever.... it also will let you compensate for load changes by simply making small pressure adjustments. We all know what it is like to drive, set up and tune a vehicle with one person driving the car, then as soon as you load up 3 other people or the wife, cooler and her luggage and head cross country; the cars handling dynamics change greatly. With air... you can compensate for those changes. You asked what would happen if you inflated up our kit to factory ride height? First thing that would happen would be your neighbors making fun of you for having a 4 wheel drive camaro... and yes... it would ride extremely harsh.BUT.... Our kits are not designed to put your ride height back to factory height. if that is what somebody wants... then the geometry of the bracketry needs to be designed to reflect that. As far as your alignment goes, most factory front suspensions are designed to accept roughly 1-1.5" of static height change without compromising suspension geometry. If they didnt, you would have a large disclaimer on the back side of your sun visor that says. " Not intended for use with fat chicks, may cause accelerated tire wear", or when you took it down to get it aligned, the alignment guy would tell you, your wife and your kids to stay in the car while they make there adjustments. Like I mentioned in the earlier posts though.... you can typically make between 3-5 psi adjustments without altering the ride height. Good questions man.... keep em coming.......

Crazy..... Your welcome! To answer your question, the airsprings we use in the F-body kits weigh in at about 2.5-3lbs and the total compressor system weighs aboout 20-25 lbs. the brackets range from under a pound to maybe a couple pounds and you will have one bracket on either end of the airspring.

406..... Your welcome too..... Good question too! The air is compressed.

RTFC.... from the sounds of what you have, the kit that is on your truck is designed as a load supplemental kit... it is not designed to better your ride quality. Now if you think about it like this, this may help you out... You say that with the truck empty and the airsprings empty, the truck handles great. but as soon as you increase your load and put air in the system the truck gets untolerable. Is what it sounds like to me is that you are simply exceeding your shocks capabilities to control the suspension. Remember... all you are doing when you add air to your system is increasing your spring rate. You could also have the innapropriate spring or the spring installed at the incorrect ride height height. By dearching your leafs you are essentially decreasing your vertical head space for the airspring. That could be another factor. If you would post some images of your suspension set-up and let me take a look at what you have going on, there is no doubt that I can help you out and get that thing acting better. Also if you can give me the part number of the airspring you used or our kit part number... and then tell me what your installed ride height is... I can probably get you lined out. I would really like to see some images though because I think you have something wrong under there.....

 

Excellent Tony, Thanks!

 

tony, dont worry about them... Dean is a hardcore autocrosser..


for the rest of us, we realize that your setup with good struts/shocks will handle much better then stock, and give the ride height on demand adjustment we want... he'll never be happy with it, so dont bother..


anyway heres what bugs me:
ive been waiting for the bag over QA1 strut setup like kandids car.....



whats the deal?

i know QA1 hates us and never wants to make a 3rdgen strut...... so what do we have to do to get one made? modify a mustang strut?

mostly i want a shock with the HUGE dragracing launch -> street -> performance adjustment that the QA1 provides... your airbag system over it would just be the icing on the cake.

 

also, by using the flat plate like that, you cant reuse any of the aftermarket A arms out there.......

the A arms are just like the S-10s... guys have been using S10 front setups in these cars for years... why isnt yours like that?

 

Tony,

Fair enough answer, but it gets back to my point, back on page #1.

If you get this great ride quality, and the designed ride height (I'll give you that). How are you going to out handle a car with a properly tuned coil setup, with more agressive spring rates. I know what it takes to make these cars handle, I know the spring rates involved. I am not buying into you getting everything. These cars really like to be stiffly sprung. They have an very poor camber curve, and the front/rear roll centers change very diffrently, having a stiffly sprung car, helps to keep those changes in check. I am not buying into your claims, that your car is going to both out perform, and ride better than this setup. If your kit does infact RIDE better, I'm sure your effective wheel rate is lower, thus the comfy ride. If your performace is on par, or better, than a coiled car, then I would assume the wheel rate is higher. I'm not going to deny, that if either of those is true, than I will give you whichever you own up to. But there is no way I am going to give you both.

The 4th gen in question, that was used earlier, the roll center migration on it, is entirely diffrent that a thirdgen. With all the talk about this kit on thirdgens, I would rather see tests, along with the associated rates, and real specifics on the setup, there are lots of little things that can have small effects, but when you add them all up, it makes or breaks a car. Things like what the sway-bar end-links where torqued to, the endlink lengths (this has a small effect on the actualy sway bar rate), how about aligment specs between the coiled run, and the air-ride run. Having driven LOTS of diffrent f-cars, I find it very hard to beleive the tail end was almost uncontrolable on a basicly stock setup. We all know these cars are designed to push (saftey feature from the factory). I'm not going to say that the test was rigged, but an uncontrolable rear end, on a basicly stock car, would generaly indicated a less the ideal suspension setup.

 

whos cares if you can go out and drive wicked fast around corners with the car on air bags. As long as it rides better than it does now with my sportlines and its lowered im happy . How many other people have the same opinion as me , im sure their are a few and we are gonna be the ones who buy the air ride. so quit arguing about the system . Im not buying air ride to go out and drive faster than i do now , i want it so the ride can be bearable for the 3000 miles or less i drive a year .

 

Then don't read my questions, or his responses. There are some people who may actualy want tech on the parts they buy. There are some who may be questioning if this kit is right for them or not, there are those who MAY care about performance on something they are about to spend $2k on. They may want this information, and may care about the nuts and bolts of this setup. If you mind is already made up, don't read any further.

 

Im not buying air ride to go out and drive faster than i do now , i want it so the ride can be bearable for the 3000 miles or less i drive a year .


Was this a way to let everyone know your minds made up and your happy?

Cause i plan to have 380hp at the wheels and i would sure like to know how it performs. I CARE how it performs around corners so i know how to treat the bags and how not to. So i enjoy reading everyones facts on airbags, what you just said is like that you want the thread to end there at what you think and no one else can gain information.. thats not to thoughtfull

 

his point is that those who are in question look as if they are digging at this point... reguardless, let them dig as it's fun and they may not have another chance to have someone properly explain it to them. not only that by doing so gets some mis-spelled rumors explained and just reinstates the ideas of air being a greater possability. it's nice to know fact over fiction..

 

Does the kit work on firebirds too? Thats probably a stupid question, but air-ride says 82-92 camaro. I would imagine it fits 3rd gen birds too.

I've been saving for a set of bilstiens and the Eibach prokit, but just knew i wouldnt be happy with the stance. Kandied says the ride with that Bilstien /eibach is unbelievable, but will the ride be just as good (or better ) with the Airride springs,


How hard is it to install? What would a typical install cost? Do the metal plates that go on the a-arm come with the kit ?

I basically dont care about taking corners at break neck speed, i just want the most comfortable ride possible, with the abilty to raise the car for bad roads and speed bumps,,,or lower it for shows etc.

Should i pair the airride springs up with Bilstiens still ?

 

there are alot of factors too, you have to understand everything on my car is new from the bushings, tires, etc this all makes a difference but i love my air ride over my eibach/bilstein combo however for the price you can not beat the performance of the eibach/bilstein setup.

install with their actual kit is as easy as replacing your springs for the most part. the real trick is running the air lines, location of the valves, tank, etc. something that can be done over the weekend but it isn't really something i'd want to do on jack stands. best to have a 4 point lift. average install around here is anywhere from 1-2k depending on how much work is going on. you can save half the install price wiring up the system yourself as far as the valves and controller.

as far as the shocks. personally i would, i do not know what type of valving the shocks are that ART includes with the kit but another thing to consider is ART includes the idea of travel for show and what not which is incorporated into their shock designs so you should ask them. bilstein does not, they valve them for a specific height only. i'm happy with my bilsteins but i haven't tried the rears with anything else and i'm running Qa1's on the front. i did it to save money more then anything.

as far as the rest air ride will take care of pretty much everything your wanting. you can do alot with the suspension and not worry and the adjustment is very nice with the ability to have a soft ride as well... it's a great setup.

 

Man.... you guys are killing me here! My fingers freakin hurt after these posts.......

Dewey..... You are looking into it to hard. I think you are viewing what we are refering to as a good ride quality being equal to a 78 grand marquis with worn out shocks.... To put my previous posts in a nut shell.... you basically will get the performance value of a lowered performance coil spring without the harsh ride quality and hard road feel that is typically found with these set ups. How does it do it? Because of the inherant nature and composistion of an airspring it does not transmit frequency through the chassis like a steel spring does. Also,when we design our systems for cars like these, we dont design them to give you that lushy, floaty non-handling feeling. A properly built air suspension will still give you a firm ride quality..... its just not a bone jaring space shuttle ride. Your kind of viewing as apples and oranges and we really are talking about bannanas At this point I cant tell you that it is going to handle better than a properly tuned race suspension..... but give us a couple more years We have several customers that run air on everything from high 6 second diggers to streamliners that are running on the salt flats. In fact there was another class speed record set this last fall in a streamliner that was using our Shockwaves out at Bonneville.

 

Well if you guys ever want someone that drifts to experiment with your setup in a drifting environment, give me a ring. hehehe. I got a friend in Japan that runs his own company dealing with AirStruts, and they have an FD RX7 that drifts with their AirStrut setup, pretty insane.

 

I'll be sure and dig this post up after someone has owned an AirRide setup for 3years + and check with you then. At this point, It's all anyone can do is be guinea pigs and find out for yourself if it floats your boat.

 

that’s the thing, the actual air bag is fairly light, a few lbs at most, but then you have to add the spacer ring to make it the right height in the pocket and any adaptor plates like the one showed in that pic, and you’ve added a couple of lbs of steel into the spring pocket. Of course, there is always the possibility of building that stuff out of composites…

To be honest with you, I’m a bit surprised that this is that big an issue. We’re talking about taking a set of cheap firestone air bags with reasonable spring rates and then just welding up a steel adaptor to make it sit in the spring pocket correctly.

 

What exactly does “does not transmit frequency” mean in English? An air spring will oscillate at a frequency just like any other spring, the only thing will be that since the air spring works as a progressive rate spring, the frequency will constantly change. The only real advantage that results from that is that dampening becomes less critical, but I’m not sure what is getting transmitted or not transmitted here unless you’re talking about something totally different.

It won’t happen unless you find someone that is willing to compromise ultimate handling with progressive rates. The fact is that almost the only reason to use progressive rates on a spring package intended for handling is to allow for a fairly stiff spring rate and still a decent ride on the street. If someone _really_ wanted to build a spring with as progressive a rate as air bags have they could and they could duplicate your ride without being bone jarring but no one does because that limits all out performance. Actually, Eibach comes close with some of their Sportline kits, but those are not intended for all out handling but mostly for appearances (and similarly, there are people that own sportlines that swear that they’re the best handling stuff around).

The problem is that with a progressive rate spring you don’t get into the rate really useful for handling until you’ve compressed past the softer end of the rate. The result is that you end up with some flaky vehicle dynamics while compressing through that, like in every transient maneuver, anyplace you change directions, after you hit a bump…

Until you design an airspring that has a reasonably large specific rate range and who’s rate rises as you lower the ride height the rest of this conversation is strictly academic, and the use of air springs in performance applications is going to be limited to users who are willing to compromise ultimate performance/response for some other quality that the air bags give them.

 

RTFC, if I had any such agenda I wouldn’t bother answering your questions in other threads or agreeing with what you say in places.

In this case I was actually agreeing with your points, just pointing out that your analogies were not correct and were not making your points.

The simple truth is that from what I’ve seen you do have a clue about what works on these cars and I’m guessing that is from experimenting with them and figuring it out, you also seem to have a better handle on the terminologies involved then most, but a lot of the time you do not know or for some other reason do not explain why something works correctly. If that is what I’m seeing, it’s pertinent to the discussion _and_ I have time to say something, I will. Sorry if that offends you, but to be honest, I’m not going to waste much time worrying about offending or stroking someone’s ego, I just don’t really care.

I actually find it somewhat amusing that there are some people on this board that are more likely to explain/apply theory correctly that still defer to you…

 

Well said, I didn't have time to reply last night. I was going to ask them how they managed to overcome Newtons 2nd Law.

Tony, I may be digging to hard, what I am trying to do is get past the marketing, and get into the tech behind your product. We have had similar discusions about other peoples products. This will give anyone who is looking into your product, a chance to get answers about what it can and can't do. You don't have to answer me, but as long as you are, I'm going to ask questions.

The second part of that paragraph gets me. I was not comparing anything to a 78 marguis. But again, I know spring rates, I know what works. I've driven cars that people would say ride well, all the way up to bust your spleen stiff. What I can't get past, is claims that it will peform on par with aftermarket lowering springs. Well, there are some crappy springs out there, and I have no doubt a well sorted out air system would out perform them, I find it hard to beleive that you could even come close to the same performance arena as a well sorted out car with linier springs. Especialy when you consider that when you start talking about CMC/AI/AIX thirdgens, you are looking in the 800#+ range for front springs Like I stated before, typically for maximum performance, these car like to be very stiffly sprung. Again, due the the migration of the roll centers, a progressive spring tends to yeild somewhat erratic handling, due to this. The whole goal of the high rate linier springs, is in part to control this, if there is very little suspension movement, the roll centers can't move as far. Obviosly over 800# springs are a little much for the street (some in this thread may disagree ) But it goes to show what works to make these cars really handle. More importantly it shows why it works.

Earlier I asked a simple question, and it will answer a ton of this, what are your effect wheel rates? If as much engineering went into this as You and Jeff make it sound, I would imagine one of your engineers has a graph somewhere with what the wheel rates are. Shoot even a ballpark would be nice. Without any real data from your company, this is all just guess work, we are comparing what we imagine you are doing, with what we know works. You may come out and plesantly suprise some of us, if you were to give us a ballpark as to the rates.

 

TONY @ AirRide.... could ya please answer my question? everyone gives the run around on this.

 

I've been to a million NHRA events, but never a car show...


This system looks very promising for my STREET car but I do have 3 concerns about this set-up haven't been addressed...
My car is driven to work, shows, or just for a ride at least 4 times a week so I need good ride characteristics. Is the "optimal ride pressure" going to give me enough ground clearance to do so?
Also, when raising or lowering a 3rd gen f-body you get some pretty serious camber change. Is the "optimal pressure / ride height" identified so I know what pressure to get my alignment set at?
And lastly, how long is the warranty on the bags / life expectancy for regularly driven cars?

 

everything but the warranty/life expectancy was answered. go to their website to find out warranty information.

 

well im really interested in this kit to..mine is a daily driver and i just want the same handling i had when i got the eibachs installed......
just curious kandied how well does your controller work? cause i kinda like just the 10 switch box..but i like it that the little one is so compact and it has the read out on it..best part you can put it anywhere even on your sunvisor like i saw in a pic

only thing im worried about is popping bags...if its all hooked up right and isnt rubbing whats the chances of popping one?

im kinda curious can you piece together parts..like i want the front and back bags..but for what i want...i would like 2 air tanks and not sure about compressor yet..so is that possible?

last thing is will the front sit lower with the strut bag or spring replacing bag?

 

you can't buy the strutbag... so you'll have to take your chances with the bag that replaces the spring.

as far as the 10 switch box, that's for hydraulics... even though they make it for air now. if that's what your into by all means go that route and when it comes to the air tanks you can run as many as you can fit but it isn't always wise and yes you have to have a compressor. you need to match your system properly. it's just like an engine combo or a stereo setup. if things are not calculated perfectly and matched well it won't work well.

 

"Thunderfest/ Bluesapaloosa" Covina, CA in October.
NHRA racecars, Vintage car show, Wallyparks Museum cars on display, Laidlaws motorcycle exhibit and show.

2004 was the 7th annual, I am organising the 8th currently.
Dave "The Voice" McClelend hosts/commentates the show for us.
Playboy Playmates signing autographs.
AAA sponsors on hand with displays
2nd to route66, this is the nostalgic show not to miss on the west coast- we are growing huge each year.
Eric Lotz(NHRA marketing director) organizes about 70 NHRA raceteams that currently compete on the circuit in various classes to offload and display their racecars. We even allow varoius ones to fire them up during the course of the day.

I am 2nd in command for the entire show, I stage the NHRA racecars into the display areas, and I run the judging event for the public carshow

I even get to sit inside a top fuel funnycar when running occationally- kinda makes the eyeballs vibrate.
(Car not running in this picture, I am just steering it into position while others are pushing- I get the fun parts of the jobs. But some of them are a tight fit. I am sitting sideways in this one due to my shoulders not fitting- thats why we are all laughing and someone grabbed a camera)

 

Not to many bagged cars in the area here (I've never actually seen one on the street, and they're pretty rare even at the local car shows) and the shop sells a replacement bag every week or so... we usually just find the correct firestone number and add it to whatever assembly was used to hold it in the pocket. Not sure what the real cause is on most of them, no external wear, just a hole in the side...

 

Ide like to know how durable they are also cause ide freak if one broke and i scraped the bottom or wrecked.

 

oh ya kandied i get ya with the compressor thing.....i know if i got 2 tanks i would either need 1 heavy duty one or 2 decent compressors...i actually considered the belt driven compressor...when the time comes ill figure it out

for the 10 switch thing most of my friends have them on there rides..that or just a plain 4 switch
i just wanted to know if its got quick commande on the controller so that if you wanted to play with it semi quick it will do it

 

the bags have a 2 year warranty against defects, and their firestone bags.

 

Ok when they go bad do they usually bust and slam down or do they get a slow leak.

 

I have had both happen.

I have also had firestone bags that went bad in just 2 years time. It depends on the style of airbag. The longest I have had out of a bag so far is 3 1/2 years, but in all fairness, I run them down to nothing when not using them.

 

that sucks if i have to change bags every few years , but i guess thats the price to pay for having the adjustability and good ride . But still it kinda sucks.

 

I'd be interested in seeing what the spring rate of these bags actually are. How does it change with air pressure? This would give guys a way to reference how stiff they would ride compared to a steel spring. Most people have rode in a base model car that got 400 ish lb/in springs and irocs that got 600 lb/in springs. Of course with air this is going to be progressive. Might start out at 300 lb/in and go to 600 lb/in. That kind of thing would help me make an informed decision on your product.

Like stated above, if these things are so well engineered this shouldn't be a problem.

 

the only way you will get a hole in most situations is improper install where the bag is rubbing against something at one point during travel. this is very common on vehicles that kids do the install themselves to save money. installation of air ride is expensive. well over 1,000+ depending on where you go and what work is involved. many kids do this work themselves in the garage or driveway and often do it the wrong way improperly routing hoses and setting up bags causing failure. then people like yourself see the cars with problems and think there is an issue. there can and is problems with almost anything out there. if you can think of it then chances are it can happen but for the most part the reliability of air bags is just as good as a standard spring but the life expectance before they sag is better. your air suspension installed properly should outlast the average car itself.