Hello all... I want to take the opportunity to thank all the members on the thirdgen forums, you guys are great. I've learned so much about the third generation Camaros. This is my first post so I guess you can call me a newbie... I purchased a 1989 IROC-Z last summer (2004) and I am planning on fixing her up. My first project is the suspension. Currently she handles terrible. The car is all over the place, seems to pull hard to the left, then to the right, what a mess. New tires will be mounted and balanced next week so I can eliminate that as a problem. I had to go with the stock 245/50ZR-16's. I just can't part with those stock rims (I love 'em). Planned upgrades:
Springs - Eibach Pro-kit
Shocks/Struts - Billsteins
Front end rebuild kit - Spohn
Upper strut mounts - Spohn
Tubular A arms - Spohn
Sway bars set - Spohn
Lower control arm* - Spohn
Lower control arm relocation brackets - Spohn
Panhard bar* - Spohn
Adjustable torque arm - Spohn

You notice I am going with the total Spohn setup. Hopefully I will get a DISCOUNT.

Question:
1. What am I missing? What other parts are needed for a complete suspension rebuild?
2. What special tools will be needed to perform the rebuild? (LCA Reloc Brackets will have to be installed by a shop. I don't have a welder) There were a few references to a tool that is used to compress the coil springs???
3. The items that have a asterix above. I don't plan on drag racing or any track racing. Is it worth getting the adjustable parts?
4. Any problems areas that I should be concerned about?

Comments/suggestions/tips are welcome. I want the IROC-Z to really handle (better than she did brand new).

PS: Edelbrock strut tower brace is already installed...

Thanks

Welcome to the addiction. Looks like a good setup your planing. Mite want to look at Spohn's subframe connectors, and a wounder bar. I went with TDS for the wounder bar, looked a little stiffer then Spohns. Only things I can think of right now.

Very addictive... I ordered a wonder bar from BMR but it didn't even have the correct hole pattern. Sent it back for a refund. The car actually has one on it right now (stock). I am going to get the Spohn Sub Frame Connectors, just having a hard time finding a shop in the Columbus, Ohio area to do the install...

Ahh... Come on... I need some comments from someone using those tubular A-Arms. I thought since I was replacing everything else I might as well replace the stock A-Arms. Don't see many posts about people using the Spohn tubular A-Arms. Is it worth the money to replace or should I keep the stock A-Arms? I was considering the front Coil Over Kit but they don't seem like they would be as strong as the original setup.

Ordered today:
Tires: Kumho Ecsta ASX
Springs: Eibach Pro Kit
Shocks/Struts: Bilsteins (HD)

Kumhos installed today. Eibachs and Bilsteins arrived last week. Spohn Performance parts being powder coated This is my first coil spring replacement job. I'm starting the rear tomorrow night. I can't wait for the Spohn parts (gotta start wrenching now!). The spring compressors I found at the auto parts store for $30. Is that right??? I thought they were expensive. There wasn't much to them... I ended up ordering the following parts(all Spohn):

Front end rebuild kit
Upper strut mounts
Tubular A arms
Sway bars set
Lower control arm
Panhard bar

Any tips on replacing the rear coil springs and shocks?

Rear shock spring replacement is easy should take maxium time of about 1 hr if ya slow mechanic. Let me know how the kumho's work out I had the 714 set, and I hated them wore out uneven, and no traction what so ever in any kinda rain fall.

Dan

You may find this interesting: Spohn GP attempt

I just ordered a whole bunch of stuff from those guys, including the a-arms. The whole list is somewhere in the middle of that thread.

If you are hoping for discount (as was I), you might want to wait until racing season is in full bloom because right now those guys are swamped. The again, I've been watching their items for a while and prices are going up. This is why I decided that since I finally had the cash, might as well buy everything at once.

In my case, I went with coil overs all around, so a-arms made sense because I got the ones without spring perches. Which saves 10 lbs of unsprung weight over stock. This should improve handling further on top of all the other upgrades. If I went with factory spring setup, difference is only 2 pounds, so I don't know if that would be worth it. In that case I would probably just sandblast and powder coat stock a-arms and put new bushings in them. [then again, the fact that they look cool, was also a factor ]

spring compressors, you can even rent from autozone and as long as you return them, rental is free.

I'd get adjustable parts especially if you plan to lower the car. It will change geometry slightly and for the difference in price, IMHO it don't make sense to get non-adj ones.

you can look on my list for other stuff. I pretty much went through their entire site and building that list.

Just for the record, I am as clueless as you are. I just ordered all this stuff and when it arrives it will sit in the basement for at least 9 months, so I never actually put suspension up on these cars. Tearing things out was fun, though

Thanks VILeninDM, good thread...

3.5 grand, wow you are going to do some major work. I ended up spending just shy of $1700.00 (from Spohn). The free shipping from blue_tacos would've been nice. Could've save me over $100.00...

I was considering the adjustable parts but the IROC already has a wornout 1LE suspension package, so the car should sit about the same or maybe a little higher in the back. If I need to, I could always sell the Panhard bar to someone and get an adjustable one. Spohn makes some great parts so I probably wouldn't have any problems selling it...

I have the springs and shocks sitting in the garage ready to go. I'm waiting for the A-Arms. Steve Spohn emailed me to inform me that they were building a batch of A-Arms and they were out being powder coated. Hopefully everything will ship out Friday April 8th. Right now I'm just reading as much as possible about the suspension work and making sure I have all the necessary tools...

Once I get this stage complete, I need to find a shop to install the SFC. I held off on the Adjustable Torque Arm until I get a new 700R4...

I didn't realize you already ordered a-arms. What bushings did you go with? Regular poly?

For 75 buck you can get delrin bushings. I'd explain more, but here's another good thread https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=282753

My biggest items besides what you got was front/rear coil overs and T56 k-member w/ tq arm. + plus small stuff since all my bolts/brackets are rusted and I don't want to use them.

I couldn't not go with coil overs. Since each spring is adjustable, you can get weight distribution on each wheel to be precisely balanced (factory has tolerances which are not that great and OEM springs are not adjustable). Plus you can go to a race track lower the car inch and a half, run it, then raise it back up and drive home. ... and like I said before, less unsprung weight.


Make sure you take pictures and post back here when you put this stuff on. If anything is a pain, at least I'll know about it in advance.

I bought the polyurethane ones. I have a lot of work to do on the IROC so I tried to maximize the funds. I did the standard mild steel with poly bushing on most everything. Those Delrin bushings were very tempting...

Coil Over Kit, man those are nice...

I've been considering a total brake replacement also. I have the 1LE brakes but they are aged and I think they need refreshed. My pedal is very soft...

No UPS tracking number yet, still waiting. I should've ordered the parts during the winter months. I didn't think about race season coming up...

I am doing C5 13" fronts:
http://dxm004.homeip.net/gallery/vie...05&id=IMG_0759

and 12" LS1 rears:
http://dxm004.homeip.net/gallery/vie...05&id=IMG_0735

I was looking on Spohn's site at the Pro-Series 13" Big Brake Kit... $1600.00 (wow that is expensive)

It only lists the front brakes???

I will keep looking. I want to replace the whole thing; rotors, calipers, pads, master cylinder, lines, etc...

I had to jam on the brakes this evening and the brake pedal went all the way to the floor. I never liked the feeling of the brakes on this IROC. They have always felt unsafe!

yeah, pedal to the floor is not good. That just don't feel very safe. We fixed brakes on my friends 93 corola few month ago. They were as bad as you described them. As soon as we had the car in the garage and I pressed on the pedal a few times, we got a huge puddle of brake fluid under the car. The brake and fuel lines rusted so much it wasn't even funny.

We replaced all the lines under the car and a front right caliper which was binding. After that we bled everything and now his brakes are as stiff as they probably where when the car was new. It really shouldn't matter how big a rotor is to lock up the wheels ones, if you fix your stock brakes they should do just as well on the street (I would hope). I am getting bigger rotors for racing.

Whatever bushings you didnt replace when the new parts went on, replace em. Since you're doing so much stuff, it looks like most of them will be replaced anyway, but look into it.

Yes, the IROC has a very soft pedal. When I start replacing the suspension, I'm going to bleed the system and replace the lines. That should help, if not I'm going to replace the master cylinder. Since I have the 1LE brakes and the pads were replace about 1 year ago they still look good. I'll get a better look at her once she is up and dismantled...

Most of the bushings will be replaced. I still have to do the motor/transmission mounts. I have some more upgrades to do but it requires some welding.

I do wish I would've went with the Delrin bushings on the A-Arms

Most definitely, I'm getting a new battery for the digital camera today. I'm documenting everything I do and uploading it to my website. Should be a nice resource for others (I hope)... I wish I would've started when I installed the B&M megashifter. That was a fun job

With the brakes, I am also planning to go with steel braded lines because apparently factory rubber gets spongy over time, so don't forget to get rid of those. That could definitely be part of your problem

L98 if the a-arms haven,t been shipped yet you may still have time to upgrade to the Delrin bushed ones. If you call early monday morning I bet it wouldn't be a problem. Heck, I bet they haven't even installed the bushings in them yet just getting back from the powder coater and all.

Steve

Once you get all of this on the car it should handle great! If by chance you decide to change your brakes I would be interested in your worn out 1LE brake parts. Good luck and enjoy the process. It is nice to be able to feed the addiction as hard and fast as you are.

Earl's SS Brake Lines - (1LE) 4 Wheel Disc Brakes: $95

Where??? Spohn Performance of couse

Ordering Monday...

Awesome idea! I will call Monday to check on the status of my order. If possible I will upgrade to Delrin bushings. Thanks for the response, an additional $75 is well worth it...

I'll let you know about the 1LE brakes. I'm going to take a good look when she's up in the air. Hopefully, for me, all is needed is some new lines.

Tax return well spent...

I was able to upgrade to the Delrin bushings...

Good call Steve...

Here's my baby...

l98, did your arms ever ship, or are you also waiting on those? I got a note from steve saying everything I ordered is ready except for those arms.

sweet car by the way.

Here's mine:

Forget Spohn imo

Too expensive

Thanks. You look like you are going all out racecar...

Not yet, I got the same email from Steve. Monday I sent an email and upgraded the A-Arms to Delrin bushings and I also ordered those Earl SS brake lines...

Patiently waiting... I'm just a little frustrated, because it is nice here in Ohio and want to drive the car but I don't trust the brakes...

Transmission is slipping and running hot. I have my eye on a TCI Streetfighter Trans w/ Saturday Night Special converter...

You're welcome.

As far as converters go a good 2200 to 2400rpm lock up converter should be all you need till you have some serious engine mods.

Steve

I've actually started saving for a crate engine. I've been keeping my eye on the GM ZZ383/425 crate engine. I think it would be a nice setup with an Accel Super Ram and a nice strong 700R4...

Have to take care of the suspension and brakes now and the transmission later this summer. I hope the transmission will hold out. It just seems to put out a lot of heat and slip going into 3rd...

Received a UPS tracking number today... Parts are on the way. Looks like I'll be wrenching next week, hopefully I will finish up Saturday...

Springs, Shocks and Sway bar all removed...

Springs, shocks, sway bar and LCAs installed...

Another picuture...

alright, now comes the questions... I'm having a lot of trouble installing the Panhard bar. The passenger side is hooked up but I'm unable to get the bolt into the driver side. The hole will not line up... An ideas??? Man I really wanted to take her out for a test run tonight...

Pay no attention to the dates on the pics, I did the install today (05/29/2005), the camera's time needs adjusted...

Just a thought but maybe load the suspension. The panhard bar might go in then.
By the way nice work and keep going.

Try putting the lower bolt in first that little bit of differance could be it. If you still have your old bar maybe measure from hole to hole on both to check to see if the are the same. Hope you get it.

Looks like since you didn't buy the adjustable panhard bar you will have to move the rearend to one side or the other. If you also replaced your stock springs with lowering springs then the rearend will be off centered a little.

Steve

"Just a thought but maybe load the suspension. The panhard bar might go in then. By the way nice work and keep going." --

My thought too, I tried it. I even had my wife and kids get it the back and move around...



"Try putting the lower bolt in first that little bit of differance could be it. If you still have your old bar maybe measure from hole to hole on both to check to see if the are the same. Hope you get it."

Tried it both ways. Still comes up just a tiny bit short...



"Looks like since you didn't buy the adjustable panhard bar you will have to move the rearend to one side or the other. If you also replaced your stock springs with lowering springs then the rearend will be off centered a little."

What's the best way to move the rearend side-to-side. All it needs is about 1/8". That bolt just will not go through the other end. I get it in the front but it will not come out the back...

Best way to move the axle is just to get someone to push it and hold it in place. That little bit of force just might do it.
Keep trying.

haven't done mine yet, but the only thing locating the rear end side-to-side is the PHB. Without it bolted in, you should be able to move your rear without any problems (within reason, since LCA's and shocks are attached).

Did you try just pushing it? Without PHB I don't see it sitting solid in there.

btw, great pics. . can't wait to put my stuff on there

Got home... Changed clothes... Raised the car up on jackstands... Grabbed the drivers side wheel and pulled on it until the bolt slid right in!!! SUCCESS!!! Took it for a nice ride, MAN what a difference. She really needed some TLC. I can't wait to tear into the front... Thanks everyone for the suggestions... I'll take some more pictures when I get the front all torn apart. Replace the front suspension, get a nice wheel alignment and then on to the SFCs...

Kick *** Glad that the stuff worked out for ya!

Yeah those pan hard rod botls can be a PITA. I usually just hammer the ****'s in. Yeah I'm lazy.

Kat

Yeah, I gave it a few smacks from the hammer before it lined up right. I'm just glad that was the only major hurdle with the whole rear replacement...

I started taking apart the front suspension yesterday. Man this is great... I'm now to the point of removing the struts. Has anyone completed a coilspring replacement without the spring compressors. I'm asking because the local parts store only had the outside compressors, which will not work (no room on the outside). I'm making a trip to Autozone for some tools but just incase they don't have any, I was wondering if it could be done without compressors... I was thinking of putting a load on the A-arm with a floor jack, then just slowly lowering it... Just wanted to check and see if anyone has successfully done it without compressor and get some tips...

i did mine(eibach Pro Kit) without a coil spring compressor, used a pair of long handled py bars and a chain to make sure nothing flew away.

For removing, undue balljoint, put chain around spring and a arm, lower a arm, if spring doesnt fall out, use pry bars(LONG ONES).

Install, seat top of spring, line up bottom and if need be pry into socket, then jack aarm back up.


as for getting the panhard bar in, i just lengthened it and used a hammer.

Everything is out except the center link and I'm not able to pry off the steering knuckle from the A-arm. Any recommendations??? The passenger-side coil spring was very easy to remove. The driver-side didn't want to come out and when it did -- Pow -- right in the jaw. Scared me more than it hurt... If my head was turn a little more to the left I would be scheduling a dentist appointment this week So far everything has came apart pretty easy and the car looks to be in pretty good shape. The only thing left is to disconnect the centerlink and get those knuckles off...

I believe there is a tool for disconnect the steering linkage. I need something for the steering knuckle to the ball joint and the centerlink to the tie rods

dude, those springs can kill a person. you might want to be a little more careful. Your rebuild is looking great.

For the lower ball joint, pickle fork (or whatever it is called) usually did a trick for me. It feels a little savage beating on it with 3lbs sledge, but it gets the job done. (not sure how you would do it in your case, since my stuff was still on the car when I did the disconnecting) For the pitman arm/center link, I bought a pitman arm puller ($15?), but it was a little too wide and kept slipping, so eventually we got the fork in there and pulled with the puller from behind the fork. That worked out great.

Hey, when you get those apart I’d appreciate if you posted how you did it, since I have at least one set sitting loose in the garage with the ball joints still connected. Usually I do it in the car, I just leave it with some spring pressure on it but the nut loose and whack the knuckles with a hammer till the taper pops loose… obviously not an option with them out of the car.