I think I'm still going to go with a t-bird rack. $2-300 to put it together myself vs $2000. Makes sense to me. I've researched a little and as far as I can tell the '89-'97 rack is 3 turns lock to lock, so it's a slight improvement over what came in most 3rd gens. So a liveable turn radius, slightly quicker & can be had dirt cheap. Now if only I could do something about that damn blue oval on it... grrr!

 

as far as that non hugger orange thing(the only color 4 a chevy motor). paint it. im going with a k-member and a used 4thgen pr&p and racecraft spindles.

 

Was it a rack like this? (This is the front steer, end take off R&P I built for my vette, originally it's a rear steer box setup w/ external steering valve, a sloppy SOB!)



If it is, I have 2 of these lying around, may have to investigate and maybe convert. Does anyone have pics of the hawks setup? I've seen a 2nd gen firebird on ebay that had a rack like that, a complete custom tubular frame and tubular control arms made out of what looked like oval sections of tubing.

BTW, anyone know the thread size on the tie rod ends? Are they metric or the 5/8-18 threads???

 

go to camaro tech third gen. they have a good pic of the r&p and k-member from hawks.

 

Thanks



That indeed looks like an appleton rack. Anyone know the rack shaft lenght? 16.25, 17.25, 17.25 or 19.25 ... guess I'll have to do some suspension geometry measuring to figure out the ideal rack height and inner tie rod spacing to determin rack shaft length.
I'm definitely going to look into this, would be even easier than on the vette!

 

why doesn't some one just make non drop spindles with a shorter arm length? that would make life easier....

 

Can anyone comment on how a rack and pinion setup feels on these cars (if set up well)? Is it that much better than a rebuilt stock box? I had a front end rebuilt done this summer and still the steering is loose- I blame the box and rag joint.

 

i beleave that weight reduction and header clearance are the main reasons for making the switch. but my guess is that a properly set up r&p will have the responce and turn in like a go-cart.

 

Apart from that, the frame isn't loaded extremely on one side like a box does, that's a major benefit. A front steering system also gives understeer with a arm bushing deflection during hard cornering, unlike oversteer in a rear steering system.

An end take off front steering rack and piion is thecleanest way to do this, has the elast amount of linkage parts and gives the best steering response and feel.

BTW, the way the inner tie rod ends are spaced up on that Appleton rack above is a big no no, the best way is to space the whole rack up using spacer shims (they are available from speedway shops, specifically designed for these R&Ps) if that leads to trouble with the input shaft or the rack itself sitting too low, you are forced to tinker with the outer tie rod end height and see if you can reduce bumpsteer that way without resulting to stupid high inboard spacers.

This is the proper way to do it if you need to raise the inboard pivots:

 

Just wanted to say that I have the complete Hawks setup with that K-member, rack, and control arms shown. Its in my car and driving with the LS1 conversion. I took the car back to the shop after 2 days to completely start over. I think we are going to cut the rack off the K-member and put the whole 3rd gen Box and tie rods back on. The turning radius is school bus at best, the angles of the steering linkage cause it to bind in certain spots, and the geometry of where it is mounted is all wrong causing the tires to plow and destroy the outside shoulders. Mine actually dig into the hot pavement in a parking lot. I made it 115 miles before I took it back to the shop to start over. Other than that, the kit is great, lol. Overall, a great way to torch thousands of $$.

 

So your running at pinto rack with stock spindles right? Is the car lowered or at stock ride height? Also have you consider the racecraft spindles to correct the steering geometry to get your turning radius back. I'm not an expert I'm just asking since I already have all the parts minus the spindles and I'm going to install them in my 91 very soon.

 

Whatever is in the picture from poster "Twin Turbo" about 6 posts up is what I have. It is the one that is red with the silver rack and arms. I believe other posters called it "Appleton" and it was on Hawks site for a short time--just long enough for me to get it and screw up my car. The car has stock everything else and stock ride height for suspension.

I see the 2" drop spindles but my problem is that there is no guarantee that it will fix anything. I would say the problems I have are 2 fold. Yes it wont turn tight and pushes the tire but the worst thing is the angles needed to get the steering to line up to the rack while going around the motor is more than a clearanced U-joint can handle! It is fine at 30 mph or over, but below that it binds up really bad. The stock steering on my car was 10 times better, tighter, and more responsive than this drag racing setup.

 

call racecraft , get thier spindles , problem solved.

 

Could you explain to me how the problem is solved? Unless I am missing something really big here, drop spindles wont change the angle of the steering shaft that goes from the firewall to the rack! I have a u-joint angle problem there equal to the not turning at all problem. Even if the car starts to turn better (more smoothly and not push the outside tire) due to drop spindle (which I still dont understand the dynamics at play there), the car still will have the turning radius of a bus due to the extremely short rack. Add to that the u-joints binding and it is awful still. Am I missing something that will solve all the problems? I sure see a ton of LS1 conversions that are all very pretty and have rusted up original tie rods and steering box. That is making me think that is the only way to go.

 

I think what he is trying to say is that Racecraft makes a spindle for rack with shorten arm to help with turning radius. I have them on my car and have not noticed any considerable diffence with the rack then with factory. Also I have no binding what so ever. I used the PA Racing steering shaft kit, www.paracing.com did not have any binding with that. The only binding I had was when I first setup the rack was the sway bar was upside down and would bind at full left or full right hand turns, sway bar would hit the struts

 

Just bought a reman.1997 thunderbird rack and pinion. I paid $165($92.99+$60 core+tax) and the space are; 2 3/4 lock to lock with 6 inches of travel. Does anyone know where to get universal mounting hardware?

 

Did you ever figure anything out?

 

As far as I know, you have to make it. I could never find any. I ended up making my own. Just make sure you get it mounted right. The mounting tabs on the rack are offset a little, and you need to make sure it's mounted at the right height and forwardness (either toward the front, or toward the kmember).

As far as the guy with the ujoint and shaft problem...I don't see why you have a problem. As long as you can get around your exhaust, it shouldn't be a problem. I had to change my headers a little to get it to fit, but it's a straight shot from the column to the rack.

 

I'm running the SLP headers, I doubt they would be in the way. Plus I could always run a joint in the middle to make a slight bend right? But is the Thunderturd R&P setup manual? I don't want power.

 

Spohn sells a 72 Pinto manual rack & pinion that is 3.75 turns lock to lock for our cars. Its made by Flaming River. The R&P is $690 and you have to have there K-Member in order to be able to use it. The stock power steering in my 89 RS is 2.75 turns lock to lock. Checked that this morning before going to class. Just turned it all the way to the right and then counted off the turns to the left.

I don't know what the throw on the rack is or how to measure it. But something tells me it's easy to figure out. Just one more thing to keep in mind when I do spindle mods.