Hello Members,

UMI Performance is now offering a panhard bar relocation kit used for additional room when running a true dual system over the axle. Please take a look at the link below for addtional information and as always please ask if you have any questions. Thank you!
Ryan

Product Link- www.umiperformance.com/2024

 

I was wondering when someone else besides BMR would start to offer that.

I'll have to add it to my list, but i need to get the other pile of parts installed first.

looks good Ryan

 

Would this help with a 4 in mufflex system? I haven't put it on yet, but I don't see how it would fit. Thanks.

 

Does the muffler heat shield now rattle since the two mounting points on the panhard mount no longer exist?

 

Yes this would offer addtional room for a 4" pipe, it offers quite a bit of room over the factory panhard bar. So I am sure this would give you the needed room.

No it does not rattle, the heat shield is still attached it quite a few places.

Hope that helps!
Ryan

 

There is no mention of the adverse suspension affects this has on roll center height so I will explain that and actually how this product benefits most cars.

The factory rear roll center is designed a little too high on these cars to begin with. What is a roll center (for those who do not know)? It is a somewhat imaginary point the the car pivots on when it rolls laterally in a corner. Both the front of the car has one and the rear of the car has one. Combined together they make up the roll axis or roll couple that the car leans and migrates laterally on (the roll center can and usually does move off center side to side as a car leans or rolls into a corner.

This gets complicated so bare with me- Get ready for a novel and I will try to explain it in laymans terms so everyone can grasp this.

The cars CG (center of gravity) for example sake is 18" off the ground (thats a rough guess on the average 3rd gen V8). The rear roll center from the factory is about 12" off the ground. This gives in this aproximation about 6" of roll leverage over the rear roll center. Lowering the car yeilds lets say 1" so the CG goes down 1" but the rear roll center goes down only 1/2:1 ratio or 1/2". WHILE- the front drops more in a non-linear fashion but for explination sake is closer to a 2:1 ratio (or 4 times quicker drop rate). This causes the nose of the car to canter over the outside front and lift the inside rear in a hard corner. What also happens and is much harder to visualize is the nose moves to the outside of the corner laterally in couple with the rear and in essence keeps heading a bit more straight than the rear It can go the other way too, but other modifications or part settings affect this on every car differently). This really is more of a polar combined effect and make the nose of the car much more difficult to get to rotate into the corner or in other cases much more easy. The leverage moves left and right of CG based on the corner (ex- it could move left on a left corner= rotates, or it could move right on a left corner and plows). The worse the combined roll couple gets out of proportion height wise to the CG, the greater this adverse effect.

The rear roll center needs to be lowered more to maintain proportion so the car does not go into loose steadystate and maintain a loose exit. The roll center most affects the steady state and that should be focused on- more on this later. By lowering either the front or the rear roll centers or both as a whole, the roll leverage needs to be controlled by upping the spring rate through heavier coils and/or heavier swaybars. Swaybars are used for fine tuning- keep that in mind.

How does this product help? In a big way towards positive. It lowers the rear roll center a tad getting the couple back into closer proportion. It makes an already heavy nosed car balanced better at corner steadystate (mid corner where dynamic loading has set the chassis into the turn.//Important note: Weight of the nose while alone causes the car to plow, the roll wieght is greater on the front end causing the rear to lift and the front to turn or rotate easier- I know, its confusing- its why it is hard to explain, its actually a combination or marraige of settings that get a car to do what you need it to) and if the car is still loose or plowing at this point, then the spring rates need to be adjusted acordingly combined with damper rates to control the amount of lean and rate of lean at each ends of the car. Most people would not want to change there already bought spring package combos, so this will help in a sense level back out towards parallel the roll axis, BUT, the roll rate is leveraged more so you could opt to control it with larger swaybars. Springs are best to up, but bars are a good second choice fix. Springs help control dive and roll, bars only affect roll.

Now you might be thinking, great I am lost, what do I do? This will basiscally help the car balance, but the entrance can then be helped to recorrect the plow entrance with a larger fine tuning of the rear bar to help corner entrance, Or you could also if availiable turn up the rear rebound or decrease the front compression rates (most do not have compresion rate adjustments so this is basically a nil point).

Not to be rude here, but just fairly state a fact, most cars here are never going to get near a critical precise racing condition car where these absolute pinpoint settings are needed to help tire temps last and the car be good throughout a race, so further grasping what all it does in this breif but confusing explination touching the surface of roll couple does and how this roll center adjustment works.......Just know this basic simple need, 99% of you will gain better balance of the car through the adition of this product. It is a head in the positive direction even though there is no real fine tunning of the device. It will help stable the car in a corner. THere ar so many other factors that control what and where the roll centers go when dynamic loading is induced whether it be braking and cornering, a maintained speed sweeper, or a low speed increasing radius exit under throttle the whole way through. The rear roll center even stock is a tad high compared to the front, lowered it is far worse. This product will aid in the right direction for the average sport enthusiest drive with mild modifications and spirited driving

Gaining exhaust routing clearance is also a good side affect.

 

For some reason I thought it would be about the same price as a panhard bar. Good product though I will probably get one in the future.

 

I want to also add...It is important to try and keep the average height of the panhard rod parallel to the ground. THis product alone may cause a factory height car to have the chassis side mount lower than the drivers side. And on a lowered car it will be worse. What happpens in laterall loading is in an exaple of a left hand corner with the chassis mount lower than the axle mount, the lateral force of the body weight going to the right will pull on the axle point and cause the body in the rear to lift. On the right corner in this senerio it will squat. If the bar is parallel or closest to it in articulation, the car will neither squat or lift messing with the corning balance.

Jegs makes an axle side mount hat also will aid in keeping the panhard parallel. BOth of these products combines are an asset. I would e beneficial if UMI later came out with there own version of an axle side relocator also so you can cover the market in that area and give a very good range of tunning and geometry correctness with these products.

Here is a picture of an axle side adjuster that can be use in combination with the relocation rod on the chassis side - https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...on-bracket.jpg

 

Wow. This ended up being more complicated than I thought. All I wanted was some more room for my exhaust. Its amazing the stuff I learn on these boards.

 

Awesome!

 

Im ordering one today.

 

that's quite the coin for that puppy...

 

I thought the same thing.

 

Price isn't much better than BMR's piece. So for a lowered car the setup would be this AND the axle side relocater from Jegs? Got a part number for the jegs piece?

 

It really depends how low you are adjusting it and how low the car is. For the average 1 inch drop lowering the car, the center point of the panhard rod (is where the roll center isin the rear ) would need to be dropped about 1" so the chassis side needs to go down about 1" and the axle side needs to go down about 1 inch. You go 2" down on one side and zero on the other yeilds the same roll center @ stagnant lateral load but changes on dynamic due to the panhard not being parallel. The highet goes up one way which in turn the roll center rises, and the car squats the other way which in turn the roll center drops.

My car is very low. I am told it is about 3-4 inches lower than factory from measurements I have posted and others replies. I have all of my drop on the axle side because my chassis side already dips low. I really should raise the axle side one notch and lowerthe chassis side 3/4" but I am close enough and really do not have a drastic amount of articulation travel to invert it to jack or squat. It moves a small amount and then the rates climb quickly due to my unique spring and damper setup choices.

I also plan some day to build a very unique Mumford setup I designed that will render my current axle mounts and pamnhard brace & rod useless. But thats a whole different story.

Jegsters panhard relocation bracket $72.99, http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...54011_-1_11319

 

Thats a lot to take in...

So if I lower my car 1" all the way around, I should also lower my panhard bar and trailing arms 1"?

So the ideal set up for the panhard bar is to have it level with the axle?

 

Here's a thought, how about producing a stronger replacement for the upper panhard brace for those of us that either don't need to relocate the bar due to exhaust size or whatever. I myself would be interested in this as my car is lowered and the panhard bar already sits level

 

Not to be picky but how 'bout finishing development on the front a-arms that I ordered and paid for during the group purchase a few months ago instead of coming out with different stuff?
Looks great though, I'll probably look into one when I go true duals.

 

Yep. I'd consider that option (perhaps with a provision for muffler shielding mounting).

JamesC

 

that isnt even that much of a realocation.... just one bolt hole

jegs sells a jegster adjustable panhard rod and it comes with a panhard rod relocation kit with multilple bolt holes i believe 3 or 4 which allows the person to pick a setting that works for there settup. im talkin 3-4 inches of adjustablility. the relocation kit costs i believe 80$ without the panhard rod.

 

The Jegs kit is completely different. The Jegs kit lowers the DRIVERS side of the panhard bar which is the rear end mounting side and corrects the angle of the panhard bar which is changed once the vehicle is lowered. The lower the car goes the higher the drivers side panhard bar mount goes. The Jegs kit allows you to lower the vehicle but still maintain the correct panhard bar geometry. This relocation kit from us bolts to the PASSENGER side which is the chassis side of the vehicle, it lowers the panhard bar while also lowering the upper panhard to allow more room for exhaust systems, it also supplied with a new upper panhard. You do not want to lower the panhard more on the passenger side as it would greatly effect handling in a negative way, this is why we only move it down slightly. This is pretty much completely the opposite of the Jegs kit, as for Jegs price.. we are working on making that similar bracket Jegs offer's and it will be priced around $59.99 from us. Please understand that the Jegs bracket and our relocation kit are completely different products with different results.

I hate to say it but this relocation bracket really has no handling benefits and is designed only for exhaust clearance. The bracket offered from Jegs would be used for panhard bar angle correction and would be the bracket to be used if looking to properly change the panhard bar angle.

Hope that helps,
Ryan

 

The blatant honesty here is just great, its still going on my to do list regardless.

A little more clearance up in there would be nice, and is removes a big crappy, rusty-looking beat-up bar with a nice shiny new piece that matches everything else under my car

 

Got news for you, It can and sometimes does make dramatic changes even with only moving one side 1/2 for a 1/4 roll center change. It depends on the roll couple. i often only make a 1/2 total movement on just the chassis side on our racecar- you are moving 1inch. Messing with roll centers and saying it really has no handling benefit is just naive- Sorry, but thats the plain and simple truth and you just posted mis info.

 

I agree it make changes to the handling, I didn't say it didn't. But I do not agree the handling effects would be postive. You want the panhard bar to sit level with the ground, this is when you use the Jeg's bracket to lower the drivers side after lowering it, it allows you to lower the drivers side of the panhard bar after you lower the vehicle, this keeps the panhard bar level. If you were to lower a car and then use this relocation kit you would drastically change the panhard bar angle moving the center point of the arc. This will not be a issue with a street driven vehicle, however you will not see a autocross car running this type of relocation bracket. I do believe lowering the panhard bar to change the roll center can he helpful but you want the panhard bar to sit level regardless of where you move it and not to sit at an angle. If this relocation bracket was on the drivers side where it bolts to the rear end I would agree with your statements when a car is lowered, but since it does not I have to stick with my original statement.

 

What is the cutoff for dual exhaust over the rear axle without a relocation kit? I am planning on dual 2.5" and was wondering whether this would be a necessary item.

Also, I am looking at your subframe connectors at the same time. Will there be any issues using both products with an outboard-style (outside the frame rail, stock-like) exhaust routing and then up and over the axle to a single muffler?

Thanks for the product help.

 

Thanks for the interest

There isn't really a cut off for exhaust clearance, a lot of it depends on the installer and what they are capable of doing. Will you need this for 2.5" duals? its hard to say to be honest. It would help and give the installer more room to work with and most likely less hassle.

For the SFC's they are designed to work with stock style exhaust systems. We supply the passenger side in (2) pieces to allow the customer addtional room and options for exhaust routing. I do suggest that since you haven't got the exhaust installed yet to install the SFC's first then have the exhaust shop work around it. This is the easiest and best thing to do and the exhaust woud actaully perfer that.

If I can help anymore please contact us and we will be glad too.

Thank you!~
Ryan

 

Thanks for the advice. I went ahead and ordered the relocation kit and the sfc's this morning. The same guy is welding the subframe kit in as well as doing the exhaust, so order should not be an issue. I can't wait to put all of this in!

 

Order received, thanks! You won't be disappointed

 

Ryan, will you guys be doing another group purchase discount since it's near the holidays?

 

Got my kit yesterday. Cant wait to install it and get rid of the noise from my exhaust pipe tapping the old bar.

 

got mine the other day too, good looking piece, should get it together this weekend

 

I would like to here how the steering wheel feels afterwards. it should fill a tad heavier to turn the wheel.

 

Does that mean it makes handling worse?