Hopefully, as always, members won't base their buying/fabbing decisions on a single thread like this one, but will do their own research and come to their own conclusions.

We've wandered away from the original intention of this post, so should anyone have further comments about installation, please post them.

JamesC

 

So is the Edelbrock really the only aftermarket STB for carbed cars?

 

If you can weld (or have a friend that does) you can build your own.
http://www.austinthirdgen.org/forum/...3&hl=randy+stb

But I took my 3-pt Edelbrock off & put on a UMI Performance 2-pt STB

While it doesn't appear that UMI makes a TBI/Carb STB....I just wanna show you what I changed my 3-pt out for & am perfectly happy.

 

Yes.

JamesC

 

I don't have an Edelbrock STB, but I'll throw in my two cents. I installed my BMR 3-point STB myself. I used pencil markings to line up the two strut tower mounting points, then measured and marked the centerline on the cowl. I used a right-angle drill to make the pilot holes before making the permanent holes for the bolts. With the BMR piece, it didn't hit the plenum or runners due to the raised center section on theirs and that is with poly motor mounts and AS&M large tube runners. The brace for their center section leaves a lot of room for clearance above the distributor. Also, the way their center piece bolts on makes it easy to change the distributor cap without having to remove the entire STB. Very convenient in my opinion. Not trying to hijack the thread or persuade for/against any particular brand. Just relaying my experiences.

 

Can someone let me know the bolt, nut and washer sizing and quantity for the Edelbrock 3 pt. hardware. I am going to add it to my Official Bolt, Nut, Stud replacement thread. Thanks. I want to know so I can replace with some nice SS ARP bolts.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...-nut-stud.html

 

I came across this during a search and had to respond to this as it is horribly inacurate. The thirdgen vehicles have a thinner firewall that is not a very sturdy structure. A three point brace helps with this issue. The firewall on the fourth gen cars were made thicker and stronger, so a three point brace is not needed. You are not going to crack your windshield by installing a three point brace. You are also not going to crack the windshield by leaning on it or the firewall. You don't "need" a strut tower brace on these cars just like you don't "need" subframe connectors or a wonderbar, but they sure do go a long way, even on a daily driver.

 

I once did a thorough net search on the question of cracking windshields and there was no direct evidence of that ever happening in our cars.

JamesC

 

It makes logical sense that connecting the towers to as many points as possible will re-inforce it. I have a 2pt and J&M mounts and it does make a difference (I've tried with and without the bar and there is a difference). A 3 point would probably be better and I would go as far as saying 6 point because of all the stresses the front ends of our cars go through. The more chassis reinforcement the better!

 

When I went to instal mine I found that edelbrock had sent me two of the passenger side brackets instead of one for each side, and they are side specific, so I ended up having to grind the one bracket and it fit but not correctly. Now on the driverside the bracket is scratching the underside of my hood. Going to contact edelbrock and see if they will send me a new bracket. Anyone else have the problem with getting the same brackets?

 

Vetruck here- (yes, now another name-I don't even remeber why this time). Anyways, Im Dean.

I guess I can help clear up this mess. I have actual tested data on these things and a car that was certainly well respected on these boards for its handling capabilities.

1st BIG POINT- Your windshields are in fact part of the chassis structure. They AID in chassis strength and are also engineered to aid in strength for crash impact in an accident. THey are part of the crumple zone. Force applied laterally against the windsheild will not crack it unless it is an extreme hit- no 3 pt STB force is going to crack it.

2) My car had a Edelbrck 3-pt STB. I pulled a doncumented 1.07g's on a skicpad, and I have a few videos and documented posts against MANY other local 3rd gens as to the car's performance level. My quote James listed is very important to note- without soild bearing strut mounts, a STB is useless.

3)The Edelbrock STB mount brackets (on the towers that the STB bolts to) flex in stock form from Edelbrock. THey need to be box welded with a plate on one end. Best done on the vetical side, not the ramp side of the bracket. this prevents flex force when under hard braking and corner turn-in from the 3 pt supports to the firewall. THe tower will flex towards the firewall in a diagonal manor without them. Note: I HAVE DONE TESTING on my car with and without them. Yes my car was extremely modifoed with absolutely no weak links anywhere in the suspension and chassis, so it will show this flex where most cars more in stock form would not, but the test did show flex on the bracket. Then, after I box welded the brackets and had the 3rd pt braces installed, I then took off just the 3rd pt braces (now a standard 2pt brace) and the car was noticibly looser going into corners. The inside rear wheel was lifting more weight off it due to chassis flex- THAT RIGHT- chassis fles between the firewall and the strut tower. The chasis has to be kinking here and lifting the inside rear wheel. JUST BY INSTALLING THE 3RD POINT BRACES- I ELIMINATED THE LOSE CONDITION AND TIGHTENED THE CAR BACK UP...FACT!!!

4) My windshield never cracked

have a good day
Dean

ps- I know I have a post somewhere on TGO where I drew a sketch on this very subject showing how the triangulation of the brace eliminates the fles, as well as a sketch next to it showing the flex with only a 2pt brace.

 

Edelbrock is a f-ing joke when it comes to quality control and customer service. They are not the same Edelbrock our father's grew up knowing

 

You mentioned once that mounting the 3 pt braces to the firewall would be better if they were farther apart. Nothing that I know of exists that is made in this fashion, although there should be one available.

Also that brace that kenny brown made that goes in front of the tranny x-member.. There is a market still for these braces considering they would be cheap to fabricate.

 

I have a couple of projects in the works coming up real soon (for sure around the holidays if not before). one is building a Boomtube exhaust setup for a local friend with a NASCAR replica car of Dale Jr. The other project is someone I have been helping at the local track (Black Mamba on here) Val and I have been tinkering with his car when I get time. I've promised him I would build him a STB from his car.

He has a Carbed 85 with the HO dual intake air cleaner so I need to engineer something for him. It will be based on what he wants to buy parts wise but I help build stuff for him for free. WHat I would like to do is build something I have had in mind for many years now where I can make his alignment adjustments with it also.

How and why? I hate banging the damn strut mounts into position with a hammer every time we goet it setpo for the track, and then back to street alignment. last time out I just left him with an alignemtn I had on my car for the street and it did nto help him to the fullest capability- lazyness on my part since I hate pounding these things with a rubber mallet. Valentin has the Hotparts mounts which are much easier because of the separate caster adjustment, but its still a pain. I'd like to build a setup that I could push and pull the strut mounts one at a time into position with the rods of the 2pt and 3rd pt braces. I am going to try and use mount poits that will unbolt to pivot, but them lock back up after adnjustment so they remain rigid. (non swivel hiems) as well as custom brackets I plan to weld to both the strutmounts and the firewall that will be slotted.

The brackets I want to make and weld onto the strut mounts will look a little like my upper control arm brackets I bought from HRPWorld. The 2pt cross link will have to be aligned then welded in place to the strut mounts since there will be no alignment adjustment after it is intact. This will pull the struts towards eachother or push away by simply unbolting one side and twisting the spreader bar- then locking that down for camber adjustment, and then setting his Caster with the hotpart separate adjustment to fine tune it. The 3pt lateral links can be used in hiem joint form to push and pull the caster- but if they are non-swivel hiems I will have to slot the firewall attachment point and still do a slight amount of manipulation of the 3rd pt bar to get the caster close, then lock the strutmount down and readjust the 3rd pt length to get the firewall mount in the correct position of the slot so as to have romm for the other side to do the same.(Kind of confusing when reading this I know- but its hard to explain and easy to do)

Dean

 

I should note that those Aarms are on my Vetruck. I will duplicate something like that on his strut mounts

Here's Vetruck in action there also
I little bragging note- out of 7 Corvette that were there, 4 of them were running street tires like I am on- I beat all 4 street tire corvettes. - and a 90's Mustang on race rubber

Hellzwings- We have a ways to go on his car to get the the level mine was- Its all about his budget but he's getting there. He still has alot of rubber bushings in places like front A arms that we need to replace before we get more extreme with bracing like the KB unit you refer too. it works on mine, but he's not at that level yet- its getting there though.

The triangular 3rd pts will be decided based on what room we have to work with, but Id like to take them off the strut mount itsself and mount both sides cloew together on the firewall lip with a reinforcement plate alot like the Edelcrock unit has- only slotted for adjustment.

Sidenote: I also have a shock tower brace/frame spreader I built in vetruck that resembles a sideways Edelbrock STB- I highlighted it in yellow

 

I should also make a note that if Val decides to give me the gohead and build this STB the way I want to, he will have to remove one strut mount entirely and loosen the other side considerablely to unscrew the cross brace off them if he ever needs to remove his motor.

 

What you are building seems overkill unless he is really at the limit? Although looks to be probably the best design tying in everything..

As for rubber bushings in the a-arms.. I have poly and they suck lol. They squeek and they are greased so I am going to change them. Del Alum are good I am going to try those perhaps.

Also, are you suggesting that a V8 could keep up with your v6?

 

I am simply building him a 3pt stb without pivot points on the mounts, but one that will allow for alignment changes. What's so overkill about that?

Also, where did I suggest anything about comparing a V8 to a V6? I was mentioning I am working with these cars still and helping others develop theirs even though I do not have one. I am not jumping down your throat, Im just a little puzzled at your response questions being a little in left field from what I wrote about the 3pt brace being tied into the firewall and windshield structure.

We've done sevearal track days with the local club here in So Cal over the last two years so I was bringing anyone interested in my presence up to speed that I havee still been active with the cars and ongoing enigineering and development of them the last two years even though I have not been on this website. With that said, its a result of me checking in here once in a great while to find out my name and quotes are sometimes still being used so I will sometimes respond to clear up any misnomers and give imput to ongoing rumors about silly things like cracked windshields. This site is full of good and bad- I pick and choose what I decide to talk about anymore around here- otherwise I stay away.

If you want to compare anything to what I have- its your deal- just know that anything I touch will be fast on a race course regardless whether is a V6 or V8, a car or a truck- it don;t matter to me. Its all about what you do AND how you set it. If you feel my ideas are overlill, then I will keep them to myself.

 

Nothing is overkill - except lethal ignorance

I know this is about Edelbrock, but here's my Kenny Brown 3pt. Had to shim at the cowl with a block of plastic (actually spreads out the stress, better); hammered the top portion a little to clear the hood with the old plenum; and I've never had to touch it for alignments. I wish I would have bought more of his stuff back in the day.
I really feel a 3pt is much better - like a taco analogy - keeps the towers and cowl from folding in on each other.

 

Why don't you put a real engine in that thing Brian (Kidding of course- very nice).

That basicall is a perfect setup. No pivot points so the lateral movement of the towers in relation to the firewall is reduced to almost nothing in comparison to without.

I like your taco analogy Imma gonna steal that one for future use.

Now the only problem you have is if you want to make changes for the track you still have to get the rubber hammer out like everyone else. Most people don;t make the changes I do or have the equpment I do to do things themself at will, so thios probably does not matter to most. But to those that do their own alignments and are weekend warriors, the rubber mallet game gets real old real quick.

 

no need to remove the hood and no need to remove the tires just make sure you are forward of the caster settings on the strut mounts I think it took me 2 hours to install properly

just becareful when doing the cowl drilling I drilled into my firewall on accident

I would have preferred to use a not pivoting stb the qa1/edelbrock is the only one that seems to fit over the superram and I mean it bearly clears I have less then 1/4 inch of room from plenum to the bar and that's as high as it go's