blyth18md

Im thinking turbo ecotec swap. Warn me ahead of time if the camaro is ever brought through Cumberland.

Mojave

Dropping Guldstrand's name again I see. Are your arms tired from swinging from his nuts so much or do you just suck them hard enough to stay attached?

Like I said before, if your V6 3rd gen is that fast, put it on a racetrack with other racers. Saying you beat XXX car doesn't mean diddly poo.

Here is me in my stock LS1 4th gen passing more Porsches than I can count. Does that mean me and my f-body are faster than anything out of Stuttgart?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...31761737&hl=en

trackbird

iTrader: (7)

I love driving through Cumberland. Don't get arrested (I've had at least one ticket in LaVale) and keep it out of the concrete. That can be a challenge in that area. Cumberland seems to scare most drivers, but I think it's a fun area to drive through.

Guest

You get your roll center in the dirt and you gain so much lateral weigh on the contact patch you loose grip easier.

Granted, lateral weigh transfer is based on three factors- track width, CG, and g (g forces, or lateral acceleration). You r roll center has everything to do with 1)how the tires are loaded a contact patch wise, and b) weigh wise Vertical and horizonal loading (just in essence like downforce would apply- different subject, but kindof the same principle).

Suspension, or suspension geometry SIMPLY just tries to keep thos e 4 contact patches flat and even on the ground at all times though static to dynamic laoding.The lower the front roll center, generally the loss of camber curve- subsequently, the need for excessive static negative camber.

My simple addition of the "traction circle" was a general acknowledgement of the contact patch issue of grip. my way of just complimenting you on your knowledge, Didn't have to come back and step on my toes.

as for the 25K issue, thats what I have into upgrades in the entire car including creature comforts like the r134 A/C system, interior crap, the works. This was build as a full creature comfort vehicle with the only weigh reduction placed on unsprung weight as not to further hinder the lack of power this car is stuck with on Calif roads with the smog ****'s. I have a 3.5L V6 that has been waiting in the wings to someday drop in when the current motor gets tired- probably puit our about 200hp- fine for a street car that just so happens to run great on road courses but was not built for such.

Nobody likes me because when I show up with this car I have embarassed many people- Yes I wiould be pissed also falling to a slow V6.

Have a great day

Guest

Dude, You just flat out suck. Might I suggest driving lessons, or maybe just take up knitting. I would beat your *** in my street truck.

I watched that video just right up until the first time you came off the high speed straight and you probably crapped you pants damn near high siding it into that chicane.... I couldn't take much more.

kukerdan

iTrader: (1)

jeeeeezeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee



this post turned into a sewing circle!

I couldnt even read through the whole thing.


All I was saying at the beginning was,

I noticed when i got it, with aged shocks and springs
dinky sways and no mods at all, that it handled like a mother .

All marshmellow like as it was, I toasted my friends
89 Merkur XR4ti (which has the ford 2.3 turbo in it)
and hes done work to it, and had new struts all around (IRS)

we raced down a twisty road, and he said once I got ahead, he was just trying to keep up to watch me because i was flying thru the turns.

Now that Ive beefed her up, I have to take her to scarrry speeds just to get the tires to bark at me a little.

Ive since put many cars to shame on the twisties, and you know, shes pretty good at highway speed also,

likes to pull hard and steady from 50 - 120 mph, havent gone past 120 yet, but at 120 it still felt like it could go another 30 mph or so

Anyone want to guess at my gear ratio?
At 100 mph shes at 2900 rpm in OD
(i have a worked automatic trans)

I only like to drive cars that handle like a ****
my winter car being an 89 accord LXI
my previous car being an 87 celica GT convert
both ive worked the suspension on
but this camaro is in a different league

slow305

iTrader: (2)

Hey vetruck, I'm still waiting for you to post some of your autocross results so we can see all the other cars you crushed with your fire-breathing V6 car.

Pat

slow305

iTrader: (2)

I've been out to the "Pumpkin Carve" autocrosses at the airport a couple times. Last time I went, I kicked the crap out of Porsches, Corvettes and many other cars in my 3rd gen Firebird with the inferior V8 engine. I'm just glad nobody with a V6 F-Body showed up to school us all.

Pat

blyth18md

I live in town and I generally make it over there at least once during the weekend (to spectate my car is always in pieces). I have never seemed to be there when any fast third gens are there. Honestly the only F-body ever worth watching is Karl's camaro, and living out in the boonies I'm not even sure how fast he is beyond the local level.

Dewey316

I love it, TGO tech reaches a new best.

Q: Which handles better, thirdgens with V6's or V8's?

A: Niether. Buy an LS1.

nape

iTrader: (1)

That question is like asking if you would rather have HIV or AIDS. Both of them suck and you just have to live with it.

Guest

Just to note and remind... everyone ran the course totally blind. You just got there a little later than the rest of us. I'll bet you a dollar that if any of us had walked the course, the only one who would have benefitted from it would have been you. Thats almost too bad... things could have been a lot worse.

(still kicking myself for not having enough fuel in the tank)

I can attest to that. Going back to the same aforementioned autox day, there was little space for HP. I dont know how much time, if any, I could have made up. I had way more HP than I needed at all times, so what I had with the extra weight not only from the engine but the SC was a bunch of --------------- on the lap time because it was really dead weight I was carrying around. I didnt have a thermometer but I felt the tires once and there was definitely room for improvement on the lap times but the tank wasnt up to it... and the front tires obviously were not happy with the weight balance. I couldnt keep speed in corners or accelerate out of them so it kinda killed me. I know I would have been past all the V8 guys, but I dont know and dont suspect I would have caught that pesky V6.

Its really about balance, having what HP you need, and making the car use all of what it has. Its not any different than drag racing in that aspect, if you dont put your power to the ground (whether that is engine HP or lateral acceleration force), you are slower. Weight balance goes a long way to that, and so does lack of weight. I have a Mustang in my garage that would lay waste to just about anything here and its because it weighs nothing. Tin can on wheels. Not too bad of a balance with the F*rd block (much lighter than any SBC), and total lack of creature comforts. I know for fact its faster than my TA, and its suspension is an archaic out of date poorly engineered piece of junk. Its mostly lack of weight that makes it so much better.

Guest

I can do that. Hold that thought. Have to enter search mode... and hope they're still posted up.

Wow... what a long time to find... ugh.
Lon, 90rs, TBI, some suspension stuff 74.842 70.056 (1 cone, 72.056) 69.846
George, 01 SS, some mods 71.152 68.007 68.110
George's other half, same car, 74.158(DNF?) 68.815 68.867
RTFC, Mr. MultiBanned v6 guy, 66.137 63.324 64.211
Glenn, race prepped V8 car, different class and time of day 61.xxx 60.xxx 58.xxx
?, ? car (v8), 73.?, 68.856, 69.?
SmackTalker aka ReddRocket aka GreyGoose, stock V8 TBI, just about every bolt on suspension part known to man, 71.620 67.042 (2 cones, 71.042) 67.252
me, S/C 305, a couple minor suspension parts, 73.422 68.692 70.062
Bret, mostly stock 350TPI, some bolt on suspension, 82.541 75.054 71.382

Now, honestly, out of that... RTFC is the most experienced driver except maybe Glenn and his co-driver. My own .02 George and GG are ok but I could have easily taken them both and should have, had I had fuel in my tank. Lon and Bret were out there to have fun and learn like most of us. I think George and GG pretty much got most of their possible times, maybe some better driving would have yielded -1s +/-. GG hit a couple cones trying to slice through a lane change box way too fast. George was too slow through them, as was I first pass. Bret spun. Lon did pretty good but I think his car had much more in it as an 'instructor' made a 66.x pass in it. Bret's did 68.x with someone else.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

This thread was beyond amazing

Besides smack talk, there was lots of good info and opinions on weight vs. power vs. cg vs. roll center vs. etc., etc...

I have something to add to this though. A T56 is heavier than a 4 speed auto but compared to iron block/head SBC with a 700R4, overall the LS1 t/56 combo is still 100lbs lighter and where it is heavier, it is in between the wheelbase (the tranny) and lower in the CG. Where it reduces weight is up front slightly in front of the front wheels and over them and higher up in the CG (LS1 aluminum heads/block) plus the LS1 sits lower overall height than an SBC. That is like reducing 150lbs over the front of the car, high up in the CG, and ADDING 50 lbs or so in the middle of the car, and LOW in the CG. This would increase handling tremendously and really improve front/rear weight distribution as well as reduce weight above the CG but add weight slightly BELOW the CG which effectively slightly DROPS the overall CG of the car.

So, I don't think anyone mentioned here, through the shenanigans (lol), that IF you were starting with an iron block/head SBC then YOUR best option for handling would be LS1 / T56 for best weight distribution / reduction, as a pose to downgrading to a slower V6.

If you already HAVE a V6 in your car then I would build that and make it handle ultimately with that instead. The V6 vs V8 is silly IMO, and it boils down to preference.. It should be this slightly better handling but less power vs. More power but slightly worse handling.

EDIT: Thought to add something.. Oversteering is better than understeering because you can control it (modulating the gas pedal) and having a V8 power plant with tons of torque especially low end TPI torque, can allow you to oversteer if need be which helps with racing (if you are a skilled driver and can modulate the pedal properly ofcourse)