So some how i spun out ona freeway over pass 15N to 91W. i really dont know what happened i was just cruzin to a buddys house and i merge onto the lanes for the freeway connector from the 15N to the 91W, a long left turn. im going 70mph with a newer full sized sedan next to me on the inside lane, theres only 2 lanes the recommened speed for that turn is 50mph, i usually take it at about 70mph ih the work truck, an 2003 tacoma prerunner, i usually take it at about 75-80 in the camaro, not pushing it at all. and so tonight im in no hurry. going 70mph on the freeway to 70mph in the upcoming turn.

so im heading into the turn and the rear abruptly starts to slowly swing around like the tires werent gripping at all in the rear. the front of the car wanted to follow the road but the rear wanted to beat it there. as i started to spin out i tried to straighten it out and hit the brakes but it just swapped ends before i could do anything so and this point im pointed the wrong way on the ramp. after i had completly swapped end i was now sliding in to the turn backwards and all the sudden the tires gripped the front stopped moving and the rear swung around another 1/8 turn. so i come to a stop having done a 270 degree turn at speed on a 2 lane over pass, at one point the car was perpendicular to the road and i was pointed to go straight over the side, a nice 200ft. fall. i stopped with inches from smashing the rear into the cement guard rail


Snap Over Steer. thats what happened, but why?

i have all the stuff in my sig, plus since then i have put on umi subframe connectors, poly/spherical panhard bar, and doubly spherical lower control arms, the car corners great and i dont know why this time it cornered terrible. tire pressure was good 35 up front and 30 in the back

so after the car came to a stop and im almost get t-bonned by another car and cars swerve around me, i sat there shocked for 5 seconds, still not sure if i or the car was ok, but didnt feel like causing an accident from sitting blocking a freeway overpass so i crank the hell out of the motor, it didnt want to start, and start to very very very slowy and calmly drive down the overpass still not sure what was wrong and exit the first exit off the freeway to check for damage, because at first the car felt wrong like something was loose or bent in the rear, might have just been my imagination, i was alittle shook up. but everthing looked good


so inconclusion...if anyone has made it this far, why did this happen, gravel or oil on the road?
and if there was something on the road shouldn't some other people driving in that lane have hit it too?


and on a further note which i still think is odd the car was spinning out but it still followed the road, i thought that if any thing the momentum would have made it want to go towards the outside of the turn but it went to the inner lane.


All in all im lucky SOB

 

...

 

if you're in a true sliding situation and the ramp is constructed correctly, then you should follow the road because it's banked such that at the rated speed you'll follow the road with little to no traction. So it sounds like it's made right and you were lucky in thet angle you were turned when you lost traction.

Why was the car off when you finished your spin? Did it die or did you turn it off? Was there any noise related to the rear slowly coming out behind you?

Does your car leak oil, or have you checked since for any messy fluid leaks under the car that could have gotten in the path of your rear wheels?

I assume you checked the rear wheels for play while off the ground, looked for broken end links and what not.

Is it possible the road just had something on it and you were just going much faster than anyone else who normally takes the ramp, so they would not be affected as you were? You've taken the turn before, i assume it was with the same mods you currently have. You didn't downshift halfway through the turn did you? The extra torque may have broke them loose ...but again, you'd have heard noise since hot tire rubber doesn't like to slide on asphalt/cement on it's own.

Also, you're never supposed to hit the brakes when sliding, it just promotes more uncontrolled sliding. You want the wheels rolling so they regain traction and apparently at the rate/direction they're currently rolling they're not getting any, so braking is a bad idea. If you have the foresight i think the best thing for an auto would be getting off the gas, putting it in neutral and once you stop sliding, get on the brakes as lighly as you can while avoiding death.

 

It could be a diesel spill it makes the road slick I have spun out a FWD car bc of it. Could just be that the rear loading changed just at the Right(wrong) time when going over a bad patch of road.

Never hit the brakes in a spin. Always counter steer( steer into the spin. But i think shifting to neutral is a bad idea. bc you may need to apply gas to pull urself out of the spin. As much as I hate drift racing you can learn a thing or 2 from watching it. You want to drive the car out of a spin.

also based on ur sig I think you need some front suspension mods to complement the rear. I think this may have contributed to ur slide. the front doesn't seem to match the rear to well. maybe better control arms and a strut tower brace on the front. just my

 

how are your tires?

sounds to me like you were speeding, turned to fast and lost control of the car a little, then slamming the brakes did you in. There also could have been some loose gravel that caused you to loose your footing

 

I know that fwy overchange very well. that is an awfully slow speed to spin at even if a Camaro is stock. My Camaro will take that corner at about 90-95mph (I clip the S15 to W91 at 105-110 mph).

The person above that stated if you may have been leaking fluids and ran over your own mess is a very strong possibility. That is highly unlikely there was any kind of road spill there with the amount of traffic that overpass sees. You would have seen many other cars bunched up there if the road was to blame.

ps- polar momentun of the car spinning combined with the countersteering of the front wheels in effort to try and correct will about always steer the car inward of the turn on a spin.

 

Re: Spun out on freeway over pass, suspension checkilist time

I bet it's more "ran out of talent time" than time to look for something wrong on the car.

Pat

 

Maybe the car shut off because it lost oil pressure? I'd say try autocrossing or take part in a drifting event so you get used to teh car sliding and hopefully yoiu wont make the mistake of hitting the brakes again.

 

thanks for the replys.......


Vetruck knows that turn, it wasn't speed at all, i see semis take it at 65mph,


the car died at some point i didnt realize it until i had stopped moving. i ve spun a a few times, usually going to fast, and this time was totally different the rear made no sound no tires made any sound untill i was sidways. it was like i had no rear tires for 1-2 seconds. and to specify alittlemore i didnt actually hit the brakes until the car and swapped ends and i was rolling backwards, cause i know locking up the tires will just incourage more spinning.

i've taken that turn at 85mph in the camaro before 70mph is about the average fass speed people take on that ramp speed wasn't a factor, i was so supprised that it was happening a litterally said to outloud "what the F*ck...are you kidding me. the car slid *** soon as it started to enter the turn. there was no road holding at all. it felt like small loose gravel, and i had some small white rocks jammed up in my treads. im not sure if i picked them up before the slide or after i had spun out into the left shoulder area, wich is always full of debis

the car does drip tranny fluid about 2-3 drops a week, all fluids are still good. it didnt really feel like oil or anything like that, the tires and the car didnt get all squirly during the slide

at first the rear was just starting to slide slowly , no traction or tires squeling at all in the rear than as the slide prgressed i could feel the rear tires gripping and trying regain traction then they groaned a bit but the car was already sidways

 

the tires are a whole nother story they are bfgoodrich g-force sports, 255/50 in the rear 245/50 up front with about 60% tread in the rear and 30% up front. theese tires were supper supper sticky for the first 2,000 miles now they are just ok, but like i said i take that turn at 80mph+ all day, i even took it at 75mph+ in the tacoma, i forgot i was driving the work truck and not the camaro, if a lifted truck on smaller less sticky tires should be able to out corner the camaro then something must be wrong with the camaro.


im about to go driving for the day so im gonna check out the ramp, it was midnight when it happened so i couldnt see jack on the road

 

Did you look to see if you have any missing/broken parts under there?

 

everything looks intact and feels right, i checked all the rod ends, because i've heard of them pulling out but all still nice and tight

so i decided to go back to the spot today so i could look around, i was suprised to see no tire marks, but i guess i havent taken that ramp 2 frequently lately, the outside lane has been patched/half *** repaved, so i see some loose dark gravel in the lane, and not to my suprise about 1 foot in the outide lane theres still about 1/2 inch of fresh gravel for the first hundred feet or so. it was scattered when i saw it but ima guess'n i hit the worst spot and the worst moment.

im just glad to know it wasn't the car,so i can feel safe in it again

 

What was the temperature out? I've noticed that tar coming up from the asphalt on a very hot day can also be slick. It wouldn't take much...

 

The patch explains it. When they grind out a section of road to repave, they also take out a little bit of the gravel shoulder. The next step is paving the patch, and after it cools the next step is to bring the gravel shoulder up to level with the road.

They usually do this with a grader, and to get it matching the road some of the sand/gravel will make it's way onto the road. The grader can't get the sand off and leaves a thin layer of it on the road. Usually, this is followed up by a sweeper but if they ran out of time (or were lazy) they may have just left it.

Another possibility is a light rain or humidity. If it rained/showered just before you got there the road may have looked dry, but the pores in between the aggregate would still be wet and the oils left from leaking cars over xx number of years would cause a film over the road making it very slick. If it was a cool morning but humid, a road can "sweat" giving the same results.

Some areas, for some reason.... , spread a mix of sand and sealant oil over brand new asphalt. I'll never understand this process (it's huge in the the town I used to live in, smells like hell and makes the road slippery until the sealant washes away).

From what you said I think the debris left by the grader or handwork was your problem.

 

This is a concrete overpass.

highly unlikely the road caused it. I would check your car out very well. Like stated already, you could have lost fluidsgoing around the curve and released them into your own right rear tire. Check under the car everywhere for moisture, then also look for something broken (panhard bushing, etc) where something deflected enough and caused maybe a tire to rub or such spinning you.

we are talking about a scetion of road that sees probalbly 100 cars per minute. Heavily traveled freeway.

 

SIMPLY driver error. my opinion.

 

You guys witht he smart asz comments about driver error need to get off your high horses- the speeds were too slow for any real lateral g spin.

Something either broke or it was moisture (fluid of some sort)

Everybody thinks their s*t don't stink and they can show some moron they are a superior driver and it would have never happened to them- you are the moron- sh*t happens when its beyond your control.

I too will state I have massive experience behind the wheel and drive equal to the best of them, I ALSO stated aready that I can clip that same corner 25mph faster than he was going and that his speed was too slow for a driver error. He even stated to you idiots that a semi normally clips that overpass at 65mph. Get off your almighty high horses and drop the drtiving skills BS.

 

He still hasnt mentioned if it was raining, or had just rained???

It doesnt take much to spin our cars. Ive had my back end race my front end to the next set of lights on a left hand turn in an intersection on a very very light rain type day. I was going maybe 20mph by the end of the turn, i turned to straighten out, the front was fine, but the back kept going. A little correction helped.

Braking definately makes it worse (especially with no antilock) but he mentioned he was already in the spin before he braked (broke?).

He WAS speeding, but unfortunately Vetruck is right, on a road rated at 50mph, it shouldnt be a prob for a thirdgen.

 

No rain, been hot and dry for months here.

He was not speeding either. The POSTED speed limit is 65 mph legally for that section of road (CHP generally allow an extra 6mph before they cite someone for speeding). California has signs they post for "recommended speed" for saftety situations but these recommendations pertain mainly to the large volume of big rigs we have using these overpasses with high load center of gravity. that 50 mph sign is a recommended speed limit for those vehicles, not a max speed limit.

In other words people, damn near everybody goes through that corner at 70 mph. I just went through it last week thrusday in my truck at about 85 after visiting my buddy Loiue at Verticle Doors right there. you just do not spin at 70 in that overpass unless something broke or oiled you down. ps- for you red necks out there, we cruse on our 4, 5, and sometimes 6 lane freeways out here at an average of aporx 80 mph regularly- yes everybody. You try and drive 65 and some asswipe will be tailgating you even in the slow lane

 

If they still did patch work they would have to shape the shoulder the same way I mention above. Sand is like thousands of little marbles under your wheels, very easy to slide on when it's a thin film.

Didn't really catch that part when I read it the first time. How about a leak in the rear brakes? I know in my jeep i had a rear drum cylinder leaking and it worked fine till it got dirty and eventually it would pull harder on that side when I would brake. It was packed with dirt when I took it off hehe!

Dunno what you have but maybe something with the brakes out back seizing on one side?

 

thanks for all the replys and input, much appriciated!!

Vetruck, dude... you said everything i need to say for me, lol, thanks man

i can see how a stuck rear brake could do it also. but mine are good, even though i'm about 2 do the full ls1 brake swap pending after i find some good drop spinddles that will work with the new front setup


i'm just really glad that i had the panhard relocation bracket on there, you dont see too much talk about them but it's one of the most important parts i ever put on my car, before the bracket the panhard wasnt level and ride height, i've lowered the car about 2" all the way around and when cornering over bumps the axle would pull back and forth an the chasis making the rear really squirrrly like a mustang "pre 2005 of coarse," the new stangs handle pretty sweet. but after the panhard relocation bracket install the chasis and axle stay perfectly centered even when loosin traction and suddenly regaining it.

that driver error stuff is funny, of coarse it was my fault i should have known better then to drive on a road covered with gravel, im sure you guys would have just know it was there and avoided it ,i can here it know " there might be some gravel on that road best not go there,"

but yeah.... no rain no humidity probaly about 65-70 out that night. the next day when i went back there was no oil not even any tire skid marks, just alot of fine gravel on the shoulder.


so i totally know what happened. there was never any lateral force before i spun out. it happened going into the turn, before i even really started to turn the wheel into the turn, so im guess'n that the rear started to swing out, it swung onto the outside shoulder, where all the gravel was about 1/2 inch. thick, which explains while there was no tire squeeling at first, i was just sliding over that loose stuff. the rear was sliding over the gravel untill i started to drift into the inner lane , so now the car had drifted out off the gravel and was sidways on good gorund, and thats when i felt the tires regaining traction , and i tried to correct but at this point the rear is equal to where the front of the car is, and im looking striaght off the overpass, with about 2 feet in front off me i was so close i couldn't even see the guard rail i only saw over it. i tired to put the striagten it out but i was already completely sideways, and heading to go straight off the overpass, then i hit the brakes the rear swung out a little more now sending me backwards where i mashed the brakes and they stopped me from going off the overpass backwards

i hope the idiots talking smack realize that its a 2 lane road and me being sidways on it was taking up both lanes. in front of me, 2 feet, in back of me 2 feet. not too much room for throwing the car around

 

on a further note i'm really wanting to get into autocrossing/road racing, i can definatley see how getting a little more REAL driving training behind the wheel would be a good thing, a little more expereince and maybe i would've been prepaired for such a thing

 

x2

 

What springs? What sta-bars?...more aftermarket parts aren't always a good thing, but luckily you got Dean near by im sure he can tell you where to start with the PHB relocation bracket and spring rates.

IDK, but anybody can **** up any turn, anytime, so we can't rule out driver error. But with the references to aftermarket parts things are looking a little deeper...and adding more variables.

 

I CAN UDERSTAND MESSING UP IN A TURN IF YOUR PUSHING ANY TYPE OF THE LIMITS OF THE ROAD, VEHICLE, OR TIRES, BUT NOT THIS TIME ***************************************************


EIBACH PRO KIT, 36/24 IROC SWAY BARS, MY CAR OUT CORNERS MY BUDDYS C5 VETTE IF THAT HELPS ANY. I WAS DRIVING THE SAME WAY YOUR GRANDMOTHER DRIVE, SO IF DRIVING SLOWER THAN USUAL, AND NOT DRIVING IN ANYSORT OF WAY TO PUT MY SELF IN THAT SITUATION, FOOT HOLDING STAEADY ON THE GAS TO KEEP IT COASTING , NO SWERVING/WEAVING EXCELLERATION/DECELERATION, IT WASNT THE GOD DAMN F-ING DRIVER IN ANY WAY THAT MADE THE CAR SPIN OUT, ALTHOUGH A BETTER DRIVER MIGHT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CONTROL THE SPIN BETTER HE STILL WOULD HAVE STARTED SPINING ALSO. THIS IS THE POINT OF THE STORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO YES WE CAN RULE OUT DRIVER ERROR

I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED NOW AND IM DONE WITH THIS POST THANKS: SAFEMODE, VETTE9190, //<86TA>\\, RACING GEEK, MADMAX, KEVMAN, FYRSTORM, YOU GUYS THROUGH OUT ALOT OF GOOD STUFF, PEOPLE LIKE YOU MAKE THIS MSG. BOARD WORK, YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST, WITH A SPECIAL THANKS TO VETRUCK HE KNOWS HIS $HIT, TO BAD NOT EVERYONE DOES.


END OF STORY AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT

 

I have spun twice in my life like that. Just oh sh*t. No control at all. I have driven on ice many times as well, same feeling just not as fast and have never totally lost control on ice long enough not to regain control and keep going.

1st on I did I was fairly young, but damn good with lots of experience already- just had too big of *****. I hit sand in a curve at about 75 in Crawford Cyn Rd...and before I could blink I was spinning a 540* and reared it into a wide driveway path luckily about 200 ft down the road. NOTHING I COULD DO. But I was hauling **** and stupid and learned real quick what an unknown road will spit on you. Not the case here, but a good example that even with skills, there ain't nothin' you can do in some circumstances.

The second was a broke suspension piece that spun me on a race track at about 95 mph- what a frikin ride that was- and I mean that literally- it was kindof fun (I was in my vette under power in a hard high speed sweeper)

Here is a shot of that overpass out in Corona Ca. The yellow is the path 1988-305-tbi was traveling. Just crusing along and came across some crap that just feel off someones rig probably- no where to go and hydroplaning on marbles.

The red path is my favorite. I clip that turn coming south back from Calif Speedway (In the racing mood usually coming from the track) at about 105-110 depending on the heat and grip in the tires. I have had many exotics try and hang with me trough there- they ain't got the *****. I am literally in a four wheel drift at that speed.

 

You should contact the highwat dept about the excesive gravel causing a hazard, before anybody is not as fortunate as you were.

 

Vetruck:

What's that bump in the top right quarter of the picture, looks like a jump you could go "yeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaawwwwww!!" off of from that angle - and on a ramp!! lol

 

that's quite a mess of roads. I think I would have had to clean out my shorts after a spin-out there too. Good thing was you didn't wreck your car and were able to bring it back home safely to examine what the cause was. I does sound like something was on the road IMO. I had something happen very similar on a fall day several years ago and never could explain it.

 

IF THIS CAR WAS SO UNSAFE AND HAD SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT, HOW DID YOU MAKE IT HOME? ARE YOU STILL DRIVING IT?

Pat

 

I DONT KNOW WHAT WERE YELLING ABOUT!

LOUD NOISES!

 

I know you said you were done with this thread but I can't help but post this... a lot of people report that the 36/24 combo leaves the back a little loose. They say that by using a 36/22 or 20 setup the back seems to stay planted a little better. I'm just saying that it might be a good setup to try. I'm running the 36/22 setup and it feels great. The rear still stays planted even while flooring it coming out of a turn.

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I love lamp

 

do you really love the lamp? or are you just saying it because you saw it?

 

I know that this is an old topic but it was on top. Now for the part no one but me knows. That ramp is right after the magnolia exit on the 15 freeway. That exit has the highest producing asphalt plant in the world there is a giant rock quarry and about 2500 dump trucks going up and down that ramp every day. The odds of there being something on that ramp are massive. I worked at that asphalt plant, and the guys driving those trucks are idiots, half the time they take a load on their truck, they load wrong(like to one side of the truck) and that makes them spill a lot of material when they turn. Half the time they don't remember to lock their gate, so more spilled material. Most of those trucks are leaky pieces of junk. Then there is the issue of your car cutting off, I had the same thing happen your car gets fuel starved under extreme conditions, at least that is the best explanation I could give. Anyways I would bet a weeks pay that something was on that road. you never know how things in that situation will line up sure every car may have made it fine but is every car following the same line as a car going that speed. I know you CAN go fast on that ramp but there is traffic almost all the time. I've done it on a strong arm dump truck unloaded at 70mph before but with a little rock dust or one of the mud trucks or even an oil rig were to spill there you would be screwed, you were lucky that time, keep the speed safe and legal, keep it on the track.

 

Maybe the Speed Limit signs are there for a reason....

Not because of the sharness of the curve, but because of the high probability of gravel from the nearby asphalt plant?

At 50 you might not have spun, but at 20 over....

 

its only 2days old

 

the posted speed limit on that turn is 65mph, the recomened speed for trucks/ trailers is 50mph. and if you go less than 65 here in california your likely to be shot, cops will pull you over and give you sobriety test if your going less than the speed limit. highway patrol won't even pull you over, about 20 miles south on the 15, its more of a rural area , elsinore/temecula unless your going faster than 85mph,

my car will cut out going around fast corners if there is less than 1-2 gallons in the tank, im guessing all the momentum from being thrown around starved the motor, i had about 3 gallons in there probaly.

Now................... thoose 1LE cars with thoose baffled gas tanks....... why don't i have one????????????...... G.M........ thoose bastards.

the car corners way better with the 24mm bar in back, Except for slower tight turns, less than 45mph where it just gives out like nothing. for tight turns my 19mm bar is way more stable around tight righthand turns, city driving.

 

My cars rear end gets a little funny when I am real low on gas when in the rain. Plus my tires are junk.
But have never had any problems with low fuel and dry roads before. I'll be watching this one.

 

Heck, mine cavitates and cuts out with 3/8 a tank. I have to make sure I have at least 1/2 tank fuel in it before I play around.

As for the rear swaybar? You should leave the 19mm in there and control the high speeed stuff better with higher shock vavling. yu get the low and high speed control.