Here we go. I know there has been a lot of threads on wheel hop but I really need help here. First I will give you the setup:

Rear Suspension:
1. Spohn Lower Arms
2. Spohn Panhard Bar
3. LCA Relocation Brackets
4. Spohn TKO transmission Crossmember with Adjustable Torque arm set at -2
5. Ford 9" Rear with 3.70 Gears and a Detroit Locker
6. TKO 600 Trans
7. Spohn Sway Bar
8. Tried QA1 12 ways and KYB GR2
9. Original rear springs. Tried new ones from moog but had same result and all they did was make the rearend look too high.

Front Suspension
1. Spohn Coilover kit with 175lb 14" springs
2. KYB Struts
3. Spohn Lower arms without spring pockets
4. Complete rebuild kit
5. Spohn Sway bar
6. AJE Front Crossmember
7. Edelbrock Strut Tower Brace

Chasis:
1. Spohn wonder bar
2. Weld-in frame links

Engine:
465hp 475ftlb 383ci stroker (on engine dyno)

When I roll off the line in first gear and then lay it down the back end hops but not severe but the second I shift second it becomes violent. On the other hand if I just side step the clutch at 2000 the car will burn tires smoothly through first and then it will start violently hopping when I shift second. I have tried the rear arms in all three postions.(Stock,2"down,3"down). I also have tried to adjust the pinion angle everywhere from -3 upto 0. As you can see in the rear suspension description I have tried different shocks also. I am very close to giving up and selling this car because I don't want to deal with the hopping antmore. The car is no fun. All bolts have been checked and rechecked dozens of times.

Thanks for any help that you guys can give me.

 

another guy from Jersey!

you never mentioned what tire you are using

decent rear shocks and springs wont hurt, the stock springs are most likely whipped and the "tired" shocks are not helping

 

I am using Sumitomo HTR Z 255/50R16. I have also had on the car Goodyear Eagles and Mickey Thompson ET Street Radials. The ET Street Radials seem to be a slight bit better but that is mainly do to the tire being really soft, but it still hopped bad.

 

Hate to mention this but have you played with the tire pressure?

 

I have run the tires as low as 20psi on the street and at the track I have taken the ET street radials down to 10psi and still get hop. I hate to say it but I helped a budy of mine build at 10 second mustang for less money than I have in a low 12 camaro that hops all over and can't hook up!

 

Double check all suspension angles, verify that the shocks are in a good shape(or just bolt some decent grade parts store replacements on there), don't run the mickey's that low on pressure(maybe 13 psi minimum). It's hard to tell anything off a street tires, sumitumo and gtr especially.

Do you have and video to verify that it is tire hop or just the feel? - What clutch are you running?

 

are you sure its wheel hop and not just the fact that your lca angle is too agressive?
they are easily confused

 

I second the top two^

See if you can get a video (left or right rear side/back (close up-5-10ft)) and watch it over and over in slow motion to see what is happening, thats what we did.

Hey I noticed you didn't mention if you took off ur front sway bar, take that sucker off next time ur at the track, it does help! Hopefully its that easy (you have a wonder bar) I always say let the car plant itself (so so)

Thanks

 

I have tried the LCA at all the different locations and the KYB Rear shocks are brand new. Put them in 2 days ago hoping it would help. The QA1s only have about 1000 miles on them so I know they were in good shape and felt fine when I pulled them out.

I don't have a video but what I can tell you is that the marks the car leaves have gaps every foot or so in the lines. I have had friends behind me and they have said that the rear tires look like they are bouncing off the ground.

And to answer the clutch question I have a Spec Stage 2 and I am using a McLeod Hydraulic Thowout Bearing.

The front sway bar is a Spohn and I have never thought of removing it when going to the track. Should I put some type of suspension limiter on the front without the sway bar or should it be ok since it is a coil-over in the front??

Thanks for all the replys guys. I will again check all the angles and even move the LCAs around again. Also What does everyone think of making a custom pinion snubber or anti-hop shocks like the 80s mustangs used??

 

You didn't mention what Torque arm are you using, since you're not using stock rear end or trans?

Are your LCA's and Panhard bar adjustable?

Are "weld in frame links" a Spohn SubFrame Connectors? That's a lot of HP over stock to run through the chasis...

Raf

 

I had stated in the original post I have A Spohn TKO transmission Crossmember with Adjustable Torque arm set at -2. The panhard and LCAs are not adjustable. The frame links were done by a chasis shop Neverlift Motorsports in Spotswood, NJ.

 

I would first try and remove as much of the swaybar as possible, let it hang loose (still bolted to stabilz), good point on the coil overs, I am not familar with them-- see how the car reacts while under load in your driveway, you have the equipment on your car so I personally wouldn't worry about your front end shifting. Theres a few posts (i think) covering the effects on swaybar removal. The car shouldn't need the custom anti-hop shocks, we've had our cars run before, what makes yours differen't... just saying. You look like you have a great car there, just figure out this small but annoying error. I am sorry i have no further information but I will keep checking up, good luck!

 

Having or not having the sway bar on there is not causing wheel hop. You may be able to achieve a slightly better 60' time with it removed, but it is not the cause of your problems. - The front wheel travel is limited by the front struts stock and it still is now with coil overs, whether or not the sway bar is removed. Limiters are good to help lessen the abuse on the struts and to lessen wheel stands when you get to that point.

Double check all your angles. Make sure when you set the pinion angle that you are reading the ds angle correctly, and that the surface you use to measure the actual pinion angle is indeed square with the pinion. I have seen several of the aftermarket 9" rears where the pinion runs up hill from the tq arm bracket, thus the mount plate can no longer be used as a reference point.

A pinion snubber will do nothing, unless there is something broke allowing the pinion to rotate upwards.

Sounds like either set of shocks should be fine.

Check the accuracy of the tire gauge you are using.

Last but not least, re-torque all nuts/bolts on the suspension and just look everything over. Something is obviously not right. - everything aside, mickey's are hard to sort out with a stick car. They are known to induce tire shake when everything isn't dailed exactly to suit them.

 

Shagwell - Just one quick question on the pinion angle. I just want to make sure I am measuring it correctly. I have read alot about it and also have the instructions from Spohn. I am just wondering how you go about your calculations. Thanks for the reply, going to get on the car first thing saturday morning and try one more time at sorting this thing out.

 

I set mine as the driveshaft angle vs the actual pinion shaft angle.

ie - If the ds is at +3 degrees and the pinion is at -1, then you have -2 degrees pinion angle

 

I went and checked the pinion angle tonight and it was a little more negative then I thought. It was at -5!! I moved it up to -2 and even on wet ground the damn car hops. It was raining tonight and I thought that no matter how the car is set up it would never hop in the rain.

Does anyone think that there could possibly be something going on with the detroit locker?? I wish I could remember when this started but sometimes it goes months before I even touch the car.

 

I just finished with the car again. Last nights changes as read in my previous post did nothing. This morning I went out and rechecked all angles, bolts and tire pressures. Everything checks out ok. AT this point with the car I am really debating on just stripping it down and selling everything to try and recover some of the money spent. So far all the time and effort has prooved to be a waste. All I ended up with is a car that is only good for driving like an everyday car. I could have left it stock.

 

Sorry to hear your troubles. I am no means an expert on wheel hop but, are your LCARB's welded in? I'm thinking probably but it wasn't mentioned. With all that HP and TQ they could move. Also the other thing that got my attention is the non adjustable LCA's. Maybe the guru's can speak to this but with all that power and twisting force won't the LCA's bind a bit without rod ends or adjusting threads? Just a thought, I'm sure the last thing you want is to spend more money on this car. If the rear of the LCA is lower than the front the traction should be better, right?
Who knows with the aftermarket trans, rear and suspension you might need a little more adjustability?

 

im not sure about the control arm idea, not seeing why the lack of adjustablity will cause an issue, especiall with all the other people out there running non adjustable parts.

Flipster, i have an extra set of single adjustable rear control arm that you can borrow and try out if you want.

 

What does anyone think of the locker causing a problem. The only reason I am thinking this is when I dump the clutch from a stand still the car will burn tires nice and smooth and then when I shift it will start to hop. No matter how fast anyone car shift the locker with still be unloaded for a minute.

I am thinking of trying the last and final thing and putting a spool in the rear. (cheaper then any lsd). The car as stated before has a 9" in it. I am pulling the the trans out anyway to have it modified and with the 9" I can take the center out with only little extra work.

I have built many rears and have my own setup in my garage so i can build them. It is only $150 for A strange pro series spool and I think $30 for carrier bearings. I could have the rear apart and back together in a matter of a couple hours. (including putting it back in the car)

So what do you all think of running a spool on the street?
And the locker idea??

 

I'm surprised you dont have an adjustable panhard bar. Not saying that is your problem, but not having that rear end centered puts alot of bind on other parts.

I know I'm runing alot less power then you, with alot less suspension parts and have never had wheelhop. It either burns or goes(usually burns). Even when we put that tracklock goop on it, it just grabbed and went at full peddle.

 

i assume its possible that the locker is opening then closing quickly causing a loss of traction then a quick hit, but i was under the belief that the locker was always closed, but would allow overrun in a turn.

A spool on the street is a bad idea, you can loose control of the car in a turn, break parts, ect.

 

I have checked the Rear Center a few times with the standard panhard rod and it seems to be centered up as close as possible. Even when we had the car at my buddies shop on a four wheel alignment machine everything seemed to be lined up real nice. Car goes down the road straight and doesn't pull or anything. If the rear wasn't centered the car would slightly dog tail and it would cause the wheel to be off. Either way if it was off the alingment machine would have showed it.

 

Ok, I went out and pulled the trans last night and when I took the torq arm off the nose of the rear shot up quite a bit. Now the rear is hanging not compressed, shocks still attatched, I believe this is normal when the rear is at full extension but I was wondering what all of you think. I have the car apart right now as I am installing a spool in the 9" rear.

My second question is can someone tell me the spacer length on the spohn aftermarket sway bar kit for a 9". I want to make sure that I put the right length endlink in the car. I am almost positive I put the ones in that came in the kit when I got it but I figure I might as well go over everything while the trans and the third member are out of the car.

Also just a note on the hop. I tried another set of rear springs in the car. Moog replacements, New and it made no difference in the hop. I am hoping that my guess of a locker problem is going to be right but when i pulled the locker apart all seemed good unless it just can't stayed locked in with the torque the car puts out. Please I need all the input I can get. I have a little money to play with now and want to try and get this sorted out. The fiance wants to leave the wedding in the car and I have till november to get the drivetrain sorrted out and paint and body. thanks.

 

the rear moving is normal. Even with the suspension hanging there is still stress on the rear on one direction or another so movement is not an issue. Usually i keep a floor jack under the rear and raise/lower it until all tension is off the torque arm before i remove it.

I dont have spohns rear bar, but i have the swaybar mounting brackets, so i think my endlinks are the same size as yours, i can measure them.

as for the locker not holding the torque, i doubt it.

 

If you could measure the links that would be great. I opened the locker up but it had no signs of any wear. I thought I would at least see some kind of marks on the teeth but either way I am putting the spool in.

 

woops, forgot to do this last night.

I checked and forgot that im using the endlinks that came with the hotchkis rear sway bar that im used to have. the spacers are about 1" long.

 

Check the air pressure in your tires , they have to be the same pressure with a locker . I have a detroit locker in my 9 ' and running e/t 's with no tubes and they loose air . I can tell when one is lower than the other by the clicking of the locker when driving the car in a straight line . Because the locker is now unlocked due to the uneven tire pressure (the locker thinks it is going in one big turn because of the differant tire diameters due to uneven tire pressure between the two tires . When this happens to me the car seems to act alittle differant when accelerating ,mostly from a stop acts like a open diff . Hope this helps just my

 

I guess it would be a good time to check the drivshaft and u joints as well.

 

I'm running the same Sumitomo tires at I think 32-35 psi, been a while since I checked. Zero wheel hop, just glides around on the street; zero wheel hop at the track too with 28x9 slicks. My rear suspension consists of... boxed stock arms with poly bushings, LCARB bottom hole, Spohn torque arm and pinion angle set at I think -2. Still running the stock springs, unknown shocks and stock panhard bar. Rear has a posi instead of a locker, I did have a locker for a while and never had wheel hop then.

One thing you might check (probably have already though) is all the suspension and shock mounting points to the body, see if they're all nice and solid still.

 

I have finaaly gotten rid of the wheel hop!!!!!!!!! I wouldn't believe it if anyone had told me but my detroit locker seems to have been the issue. I kept everything the same as before except I removed the locker and installed a spool. I thought the spool would be bad for the street but I don't really notice anything except in really tight turns. ie: parking spots. It is nice to finally be able to slide around turns and burn tires down the street without having the back end jumping around. Feels like a new car.

 

did u use the additive b4

 

Wow, Flipster, that is great! I have read this thread and have seriously been considering going to a spool for cost reasons but have shunned away because everyone says it is NOT friendly to the occasional street car. I am glad you found the answer. Good luck

 

transam85dudeman: What additive are you talking about?? It was a locker not a posi unit. The Detroit Unit doesn't use an additive.

c10crewchief: The spool is great. It will be even better with the automatic. with my manual trans you get a little bit of chatter in the drivetrain when turning with no load ie. neutral or with the clutch in. But with the auto there shouldn't be any chatter at all. Just remember that if you have skinnies up front your turning radius becomes larger. But with fullsize fronts I don't see any difference in turning radius.

 

well that really good to hear, i wonder why the locker was causing issues? Maybe a setup issue or machining flaw?