Hello All,

I’m trying to figure out what I need to do a proper suspension refresh.
This is for a 305 ’91 Camaro RS, auto.
So far I bought an Energy Suspension kit (appears to have all the bushings and end links), lower ball joints, tie rod ends (outer), struts KYB GR-2 and Gas-a-just shocks.

I am currently putting together a list of things to buy. Here’s what I have so far (part #s from Summit):
MOG-5660 Front springs $57.97 - pair
MOG-5665 Rear springs $62.95 - pair
MOG-ES2227RL Tie rod ends inner $46.69 – each
ENS-9-13101R Tie rod dust boots $3.95 – pair
ENS-9-13130R Ball Joint dust boots $3.75 – pair
ENS-9-8130R Shock boots $9.69 – pair
KYB-SB104 Strut boot kit “Universal” $18.99

What’s you take on dust boots?

Do I need to add the following to the list, why?
Tie Rod Sleeve
SUM-TR-2032S $6.95 - each
MOG-ES2032S $16.39 – each
Which one?

Center link
MOG-DS1049 $89.95 - each

Idler Arm
MOG-K6249 $74.95 - each

Pitman arm
MOG-K6582 $77.95 – each


The total for the parts I haven’t purchased yet is USD $530.26.
When I factor in the exchange rate, S&H and taxes it comes to a total of CAD $787.85 (estimated S&H at USD at $50). The number above does not include any customs brokerage fees so it might be more than that.

My budget was supposed to be CAD $500, as you can see, I’m almost $300 more over.

Do I need to buy the sleeves, center link, idler arm and pitman arm?

Can you recommend other places to buy online?

Thank you all for your help.

D.

 

Why the 5660 springs? Those are soft like a fat chicks *****.
Estimated S&H at $50?? You know how big those springs are? Try $150 or so.

Look at C-tire, I bought many of my parts there. Right around $70 for a pair of springs too. Or parts source.

I didn't see strut mounts on the list, if you were fishing for other parts you need...
A steering rag joint is something you might consider. An upgraded steering box is another item as well.

Check the play in your steering to find out if you need those steering parts. They don't "wear" out that easily.

Price out these parts on rock auto as well, since they aren't high perf stuff, they will probably have it. They will estimate shipping costs for you on the website. Plus use a website 5% discount code off this site.

 

Nothing wrong with soft bobs, hehe.
The 5660s have a rate of 600-650, I guess that's enough for me. I don't want a ride that will give me a headache.

You might be right about the shipping cost, that's why I'm trying to figure out what I need so I can keep costs to a minimum.

Once I have a list of what I need to buy I will start shopping around.

One thing I have to keep in mind though is that if I buy parts from various vendors I have to pay separate shipping, brokerage fees, etc so in the long run, even if one part is cheaper in one place it might work out more expensive for me.

At this point I'm not touching the steering box or the rag joint. The box itself is over USD $300.

Do I really need the strut mounts? The KYBs are almost $60. My car has 128K Km on the clock.

Thanks for your reply.

D.

 

The 5660's are what you have in the car now. If that's ok for you, power to ya. I upgraded to the 5664's, which are very stiff. I love it.

The rag joint costs about $20, and is an easy fix. I'd look to see how worn yours is. If you need it, you need it - simple as that. I wouldn't overlook it. If that's sloppy your steering will feel sloppy no matter what you do.

I purchased a new steering gear box for $160USD from Rockauto a few months ago. ( I just double checked, it's on there now, AC Delco for $169 USD...)

The "high performance" 12:1, 3.5 turns lock to lock or whatever it is, is the difference between driving your "Caprice" and driving your "IROC". It makes a big difference in feel and steering feedback. Just a thought.

Grab your haynes manual to see what the "official" procedure is to see if your pitman arm, tie rods, etc are worn out. You basically feel for slop in the parts. I'm not sure which way you wiggle what to check, but use the Haynes/Chilton method to see if you "need" those steering parts.
It's mostly a matter of how many parts you want to buy. In my experience, it's nearly impossible to buy everything you need from one source, as frustrating as it is paying multiple freight charges.
I've bought from Summit, Ohio Crankshaft, Competition products, Rock Auto, CNC motorsports and Mid America Motorworks - all because a single source doesn't have it all. I'm in Canada too, I know duty/brokerage and shipping - its very near and dear to my heart.

 

I totally agree with you about the rag joint.

I also have the shop manual, I'll check that too, to see what the diagnostics procedure is.

Ahhh, duty/brokerage, gotta love it. I'm not sure about Alberta but in ON we pay PST and GST when parts come from the US, which is stupid, if I were to buy them from Quebec I'd only pay GST.

I'll have to investigate some more the spring rates then. I was under the impression that the RS springs were around 450.

Thanks

D.

 

I bought "hot part" adjustable strut mounts, $120 a set. Nice parts. Not necessary i'd say. Another one of those things that if your old ones are worn then....

It's the fedex/UPS fees that kill me. If it comes through via postal service, it's only a flat rate $5 fee + the 5% tax, which isn't bad at all.

I'll let you go off and do your research, but before you do - there is some incorrect information floating around the internet about the spring rates for these cars. MOOG produced a listing of spring rates some years back, and it had a typo. It was circulated like crazy, causing many people to mistakenly assume the spring rates of 5662 vs 5664's...

Anyway, i'm fairly sure i've got this right:

???? - V6 - craptastic. - 550lbs/in
5660 - V8 RS/sport coupe, etc spring. - 600lbs/in
5662 - Z-28, high performance spring - 650 lbs/in
5664 - Convertible or S-15 only. - 700 lbs/in

Note the last two. When you go from 60->62->64 the spring rates go UP (obviously). The one MOOG catalog has the last two reversed. I might be 50lbs low across the board, but the gist is the same. 5662 is the "high performance sport" type of springs, as GM would offer in the '80s. I used the 5664's because it's even harder. Not "driving a cavalier through a parking lot" hard, but just nice and firm.

 

Hey Sonix, attached is one of the "resources" I looked at.

Is this the file you mentioned?

Some people say the 5664 are too hard.

I don't know anymore, hehe.

D.

 

Wow that's a mess. No explanation, no units, nothing.
Never seen that file, but a certain MOOG catalog is typically quoted.

I think suspension that bottoms out on rubber bushings is too hard. Or low pro tires are too hard. I think stiff springs like the 5664's are just fine.

 

To answer some earlier questions.

The pitman arm is a non-wear item and should not be replaced. It has no grease fitting.

The idler arm can be checked by attempting to move it up and down. If there's any up/down play it should be replaced.

All of your items will come with rubber dust boots. No need to buy the ER urethane dust boots unless you just like the different colors. Dust boots for the struts are your call.

The center link is a pretty common wear item for replacement. It has two grease fittings-where the wear is likely. Wear at the fitting for the pitman arm will cause play in BOTH wheels, unlike a tie rod end that goes south and only let's one wheel wander.

Check your strut mount visually for tears in the rubber. Allow the suspension to travel slightly while you observe it-push up and down on the fender.

If your steering box is not leaking you may only want to pull it and do a bench adjustment. It probably won't need to be replaced. Rag joints are prime candidates for replacement on any box that's leaking at the input shaft. The oil deteriorates the rag joint.

Oh and I went with 62s on my TA but I drive it a huge amount of miles. It's a pleasant, sporty ride with not too much jarring.

 

Quick update.
I've contacted Federal-Mogul requesting the specs for the springs.
I'll report back when I hear from them.

How do you do a bench adjustment for the steering box?

D.

 

tech article on montecarloss on adjusting box:

http://www.monte-list.nu/tech/boxmesh.shtml

 

Hey Naf, thanks for the article.
It sure sounds like something I should do to my car.

Can you please tell me if in part two step 2 is a just a better way of taking out the sloppiness or you have to do step 1 AND 2?
I don't know how many adjusting screws are on a box and from the article it sounds like there might be two, one for the bearing preload for the worm gear and another one for the over-center adjustment.

Thanks

D.

 

The adjuster plug is at the input shaft. It is held in place with the locking ring and is turned with a spanner wrench (or large needle nose pliers). The over center adjustment is the allen head screw on top of the aluminum four bolt cover.

Tighten the adjuster plug at the input shaft first (with overcenter adjustment nut backed off). Then adjust the overcenter for proper pre-load. You can use and in-lb torque wrench or get it pretty close by hand. Don't overtighten this adjustment. You can always add a little more later.

 

So I finally ordered my parts today from Rockauto.

There was a difference of US$ 81.26 between Summit Racing and Rockauto, wow.

Attached is a file that compares the two vendors for the exact same parts. I've included some other springs just for comparison reasons and just in case somebody needs to look them up.

I decided to go with the 5662s. Now I just need some time to actually do the suspension.


Thank you all for your help and advice.

Federal-Mogul never answered my question about spring rates.

I will tray to post back here once I'm done.

D.

 

Forgot to attach the file.