Alright the word for isn't coming to my mind but I'm talking about when you turn your steering wheel all the way to one side.

Ok here's the thing. I just replaced the following parts on my 89 TA:

- Lower Balljoints
- Center Link
- Inner & Outer Tie Rods
- Swaybar Bushings
- Control Arm Bushings
- End Links Front Swaybar

After that it went in for an alignment, so far so good, it's straight again no problems. But the mechanic that did it, not mine, said that one side seems to not turn as far as the other side. Before it was brought in for the alignment it was totally off, the steering wheel wasn't straight and the right side turned wayyyyyyyyy to much when I turned all the way the the left.

Now my question, is it possible that I did something wrong installing the steering components? Or is this normal for these cars. I didn't really get a chance to drive it before I change the parts that is why I can't really say how it was before.

Another thing is it seems like the previous owner installed some sort of hydraulic struts in the front, because when I put the car in D the front raises itself a bit and when I put it in R it lowers itself a bit. Or is this normal? The reason why I think they are hydraulic is cause after the car was put back together again the struts didn't retract when the car was lowered, it only started slowly going down once we turned the engine on. Any input on this?

Thanks
Cedric

 

Ok I checked the car out yesterday, it's the driver side front tire that overturns, so if I do a full lock to the right the drivers side wheel is at such an angle that it can't roll anymore and starts skipping forward, same if I do a full lock against left.

Now I did the changing of the center linke, idler arm and tie rods. My question is what the hell did I screw up? If you move the pitman arm, not by the steering wheel but by just turning the arm itself, does that mess up something? That is the only thing I could imagine that I did wrong.

 

Don't do anything except take the car back to the shop that did the alignment. This is something they should have corrected when you had the car aligned. If he doesn't know how to fix it, talk to his boss or make him pay to have it corrected at a shop that knows what they are doing. That is complete for him to tell you that if he is doing an alignment. That is one of the problems that an alignment is supposed to correct.

That being said:

The first thing I would check is the tie rod adjustment. That can easily cause your problem, although it should have been caught by the mechanic during the alignment as the tie rod lengths are adjusted to correct alignment issues.

It's possible the pitman arm is out of adjustment. The easy way to check that is to count the number of turns it takes of the steering wheel to go from center to lock on each side. They should the same. If they are not, then your pitman arm is offcenter.

The other thing that can cause this problem is if the steering arms on the spindles are bent. I had this problem on my Camaro and had to replace the passenger side spindle. The PO had wrecked the car and the wreck caused the arm to bend outward, throwing the steering way off. It was almost impossible to see when on the car, but once I pulled it off and compared it to the replacement, it was off by over an inch.

As for the struts compressing, I don't know what to tell you about those. All struts are hydraulic in nature. It sounds like your shocks in the back are completely shot. Does the rear end bottom out over large bumps or if you floor it from a stop?

 

I'd say it's the pitman arm that is miss aligned, taht is the only thing I can think of why the drivers side wheel turns more then the passenger side. Mechanics over here tend to be in over there head when they have to work on an american car So I'll have to align the damn pitman arm myself and then have it re-aligned again.

I haven't driven the car more then like 150 miles since I have it since it has to pass in spection over here first before I can get it on the roads, so I'm not sure about the rear shocks.

 

Sorry, I didn't even check where you're at. I can understand their confusion then.

Did you do anything to the pitman arm? The only way it would be offcenter is if it was unbolted from the bottom of the steering gear. Just unbolting it from the center link wouldn't cause it to go out of alignment. You shouldn't need to get the entire car aligned again as the pitman arm only turns the wheels back and forth when you turn the steering wheel. It has nothing to do with the overall alignment of the front end assuming the alignment was performed while the wheels were pointed straight ahead.

 

I didn't unbold the pitman arm itself, only the center link fromt he pitman arm, but then I moved the pitman arm by hand instead of using the steering wheel. would that change anything? I have to go check out how much it turns to each side.

EDIT:

Well I checked, I can turn the wheel 1 1/2 Turns to the right and about 1 1/4 Turns to the left. I'm still wondering if my moving the pitman arm by hand could change anything with it.

 

Is your steering wheel straight when the the wheels are straight? If so, then moving the pitman arm didn't cause your problem. The only way that could cause your problem is if it was one full turn of the wheel off. This is assuming your steering wheel is straight now.

If your steering wheel is turned to one side or the other when the wheels are straight, then it could very well be the pitman arm.

However, the only way to have it turn more one direction than the other as you describe is for the arm to have been removed from the steering gear and then the gear turned and the arm put back on. Believe me, you would remember pulling the pitman arm off as its a major PITA. IIRC, it is also splined in such a way as to prevent it from being reinstalled incorrectly.

Look at the threaded rods in the center section of your tie rods. Is there more threads showing on one side of the car than on the other? They should have almost the same amount of threads showing. The tie rods themselves should also be the same length when compared side to side. Inners should match inners, and outers should match outers. You may have gotten a wrong part and not noticed it. Parts get boxed incorrectly all the time.

 

Ok I went out and took pictures of everything I found might be relevant, interresting thing is once I jacked the car up I could only turn the wheel one turn to the right then it hit lock, and 1 1/4 to the left till lock, but the pitman arm looked the same, I mean angle wise for each direction.

http://firebird.kt-s.net/steering

Image 033 is full right
Image 036 is full left
Image 037 is center

 

Looking at the pics and going from your descriptions, I see a couple things:

1 - Your tie rods are not even, your passenger side one has fewer threads showing on both the inner and outer tie rod ends than the driver's side, effectively shortening the entire tie rod length. In fact, it looks like the outer tie rod end on the driver's side is just barely threaded into the adjuster tube. This will cause the tire to turn sharper(more) when the steering wheel is turned to the left because it will pull it more. There are no steering stops on the front of the conrol arms or spindles. The steering stops are only on the backs.

2 - It looks like the tie rod arms on the spindles are hitting the control arms when turned fully? Its kinda hard to tell in the pics. Combined with the unequal length tie rods will cause the steering wheel to have fewer turns when turned to the left. The tie rod arms are not suppose to hit the control arms.

3 - Are you sure the center link is not reversed right-to-left? I'm not sure off the top of my head if the ends are different lengths from the tie rod holes, but if they are that could easily cause your problem. Looking at the way the inner tie rod ends are twisted where they connect to the center link, I'm thinking you might have it backwards. Let me look at my Camaro when I get home from work in an hour or so and I'll let you know for sure.

4 - The Pitman arm looks ok from what I can see. I don't see anything to indicate its twisted or bent. I can't tell if its off a spline or two, but if you haven't removed it, it should be ok.

How was the alignment before you replaced all these parts? Was it doing the same thing?

 

Just checked my Camaro, and your center link is definitely installed backwards. The ends that attach to the pitman arm and the idler arm should point towards the front of the car, not the rear. Also, the inner tie rod ends should be on the back side of the center link, not on the front side. The good news is that changing it around should fix your problem. The bad news is you're going to need another alignment.

 

Man you don't know how great this news is I just hope it is that, but it would make sense, I didn't have any problems before I change the parts. they where just all worne out that is why I changed them.

Could you get me pics of your underside so that I can show my mechanic, it's his first time working on an american car. And the guy doing my alignment never did an american either, hence they didn't catch my mistake.

I really appreciate your help man!

 

Yeah, that's no problem. I'll be working on it later today anyhow. I'll grab some quick pics with my cell and post them up.

 

Ok thanks, I'm taking it back to the shop tomorrow and I'll use the pics to show the mechanic how to do it as I did it wrong Oh well something new to learn every day

 

Sorry they're so late. It's been a rough night. The pics were taken with my cell, so they aren't the greatest.

 

Next batch.

 

Sorry, trying to post while watching TV and I guess its not working

 

Next set

 

Some More

 

Last ones. Hope that helps.

 

ah that's great, thanks a lot man, that defenitly will help, going to print them out ant take them with me. And what you talking about, late, it's early 5:26 AM to be exact

I'll post back once I know if that solved the issues I'm having.

 

Whenever you replace tierods mark where there at on the threads,and count how many turns it takes until there off.

When you install the new ones,screw them on the same number of turns,up to the mark you made before taking them off.

 

A lesson to be learned, and I learned it, don't install the center link backwards The problem is now fixed alignment is being done today and I can pick the TA up tonight.

Thank you so much 92RS_Ttop for all the great help And Tony I'll remember it for next time and I'll take pictures before taking things apart from now on