cant seem to get my pass side wheel toe to be straight!
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,767
Likes: 63
From: Trumbull CT
Car: 87 TA clone
Engine: 70/70 Turbo 5.3 LS
Transmission: bullet proof 2004R
Axle/Gears: ford 8.8, 3.55 gears
cant seem to get my pass side wheel toe to be straight!
recently got into an accident which destoryed my front rim (slid into curb). it also demolished and turned my front wheel bearings to dust and bent my front rotor. so i started replacing the parts, heres what i did.
replaced rotor
replaced spindle
replaced Aarm(reused poly bushings)
front strut was fine
strut mount was replaced (slightly bowed up) J&M mount
replaced front wheel bearing with timken bearings
i checked the tie rods and they were fine but the outer tie rod was seized in my 2yr old eldebrock tie rod adjusters, so i quickly purchased a new moog tie rod and UMI tie rod adjusters.
so i installed everything and set the car down, pass side wheel is still pointing out (toe out) i maxed the tie rod adjuster on the passenger side and i still cant get it in. i thought maybe the center link was bad so i replaced it and its still sticking out! i checked the pitman arm and the idler arm and they arent bent and theres no play in them. i seem to have some slop in the steering wheel as well.
took it to get aligned before the center link and the toe out on the driver side is 0.05 degrees. the tow out on the passenger side is -0.15 degrees! but i cant adjsut it in anymore!
replaced rotor
replaced spindle
replaced Aarm(reused poly bushings)
front strut was fine
strut mount was replaced (slightly bowed up) J&M mount
replaced front wheel bearing with timken bearings
i checked the tie rods and they were fine but the outer tie rod was seized in my 2yr old eldebrock tie rod adjusters, so i quickly purchased a new moog tie rod and UMI tie rod adjusters.
so i installed everything and set the car down, pass side wheel is still pointing out (toe out) i maxed the tie rod adjuster on the passenger side and i still cant get it in. i thought maybe the center link was bad so i replaced it and its still sticking out! i checked the pitman arm and the idler arm and they arent bent and theres no play in them. i seem to have some slop in the steering wheel as well.
took it to get aligned before the center link and the toe out on the driver side is 0.05 degrees. the tow out on the passenger side is -0.15 degrees! but i cant adjsut it in anymore!
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,805
Likes: 107
From: Central NJ
Car: 86 Trans Am
Engine: 408 stroker sbc
Transmission: TKO600
Axle/Gears: Moser full floater m9, 3:70 trutrac
Re: cant seem to get my pass side wheel toe to be straight!
you could have tweaked the k-member, moved it a little one its mounting bolts.
or, you can always grind a little out of the ends of the tie rod ends to get some extra adjustments
or, you can always grind a little out of the ends of the tie rod ends to get some extra adjustments
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,767
Likes: 63
From: Trumbull CT
Car: 87 TA clone
Engine: 70/70 Turbo 5.3 LS
Transmission: bullet proof 2004R
Axle/Gears: ford 8.8, 3.55 gears
Re: cant seem to get my pass side wheel toe to be straight!
problem is that the tie rods/ adjuster is outa threads. so i cant tighten the adjuster anymore. grinding off some of the tierods would work but i still couldnt tighten the adjuster anymore. only way i see this working is that i cut the UMI adjuster down, as well as the tierod maybe. any thoughts?
Supreme Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,446
Likes: 2
From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: cant seem to get my pass side wheel toe to be straight!
The strut is probably bent. If it hit with enough force to bend everything else, it probably bent that as well. I'm a suspension tech and deal with accident vehicles frequently. If a car came in with the damage you describe I would be putting a strut on from the very beginning. When you say the toe was .05 and -.15 was that before or after you maxed the one tie rod? In reality the total toe is -.05 since they will even out while driving. What was the camber/caster like? It may have even bent either the inner or out tie rod as well. When you are talking about .1 degree thats a tiny amount that you may not be able to see very well.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,767
Likes: 63
From: Trumbull CT
Car: 87 TA clone
Engine: 70/70 Turbo 5.3 LS
Transmission: bullet proof 2004R
Axle/Gears: ford 8.8, 3.55 gears
Re: cant seem to get my pass side wheel toe to be straight!
i pulled the strut, the strut is fine. i inspected it as well. the strut didnt bottom out, the outer flange area where the piston rod goes in hit the J&M strut mount causing the mount to bow up actually saving the strut. the strut was a brand new KYB AGX believe me im surprised its fine too.
also the tie rods are not bent, i pulled each one apart, and replaced the adjusters with UMI peices (junked the eldebrocks) all the tie rods were new about a yr ago and are all MOOG problem solvers. i did replace the one outer tierod bc the adjuster was frozen to it and i couldnt get it apart.
the 0.05 and the -0.15 is AFTER i maxed out the tierods. it has a total of -0.10degrees. i kno its like nothing, but that tire will wear faster on the pass side. it doesnt really pull to one side while driving much but the steering wheel is alil crooked when going straight.
camber is 0.0degrees on the driver side and 0.2 degrees on the passenger side. he wasnt able to set caster bc the steering wheel has alittle play in it from the accident and it was causing false readings. but they werent moved much from when it was aligned before the accident. caster was 5.0 on the driver, and 5.5 on the passenger.
good news is that i got the rear centered almost perfectly with toe and thrust and camber. i know your gona say u cant set those but the rear was cocked diagonally alittle and we were able to even it out with the adjustable LCAs.
also the tie rods are not bent, i pulled each one apart, and replaced the adjusters with UMI peices (junked the eldebrocks) all the tie rods were new about a yr ago and are all MOOG problem solvers. i did replace the one outer tierod bc the adjuster was frozen to it and i couldnt get it apart.
the 0.05 and the -0.15 is AFTER i maxed out the tierods. it has a total of -0.10degrees. i kno its like nothing, but that tire will wear faster on the pass side. it doesnt really pull to one side while driving much but the steering wheel is alil crooked when going straight.
camber is 0.0degrees on the driver side and 0.2 degrees on the passenger side. he wasnt able to set caster bc the steering wheel has alittle play in it from the accident and it was causing false readings. but they werent moved much from when it was aligned before the accident. caster was 5.0 on the driver, and 5.5 on the passenger.
good news is that i got the rear centered almost perfectly with toe and thrust and camber. i know your gona say u cant set those but the rear was cocked diagonally alittle and we were able to even it out with the adjustable LCAs.
Supreme Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,446
Likes: 2
From: Orlando
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: 357, Canfield heads, solid roller,
Transmission: Upgraded 03 Cobra T56
Axle/Gears: 9" 3.50 gears and Detroit Locker
Re: cant seem to get my pass side wheel toe to be straight!
Yeah I messed up on what the total toe will be. Your correct that it is -.10 with -.05 on each side which is what I was thinking of. It wont really wear the one side faster than the other side because while your driving the toe will even out to -.05 on each side. Thats why your steering wheel is crooked. Even though that toe spec isnt bad, I agree that something is wrong and should be fixed. At work when looking at a customer car I take steering and brakes very seriously.
When you say there is play in ther steering wheel, is it in the gear box? If anything play in the steering wheel would mean that the toe would not be able to be correct. The caster is just the angle of the strut in relation to the front to back of the car. You have to set the camber/caster before you can adjust the toe. Changing the caster a little can drastically change the toe.
The camber specs sound good so you may have somehow gotten lucky and not messed up the strut. Just surprised that the parts on both sides of the strut were messed up but not the strut. Assuming that the strut really is good, then it could be a bent tie rod. The rod itself may not even be bent, but the ball joint in it may be.
You may try loosening the bolts on the sub frame and pulling it towards the passenger side. If you hit the passenger side wheel then it may have pushed the subframe towards the drivers side which would have made the passenger camber greater than the drivers side and would have pushed the toe out on the passenger side.
When you say there is play in ther steering wheel, is it in the gear box? If anything play in the steering wheel would mean that the toe would not be able to be correct. The caster is just the angle of the strut in relation to the front to back of the car. You have to set the camber/caster before you can adjust the toe. Changing the caster a little can drastically change the toe.
The camber specs sound good so you may have somehow gotten lucky and not messed up the strut. Just surprised that the parts on both sides of the strut were messed up but not the strut. Assuming that the strut really is good, then it could be a bent tie rod. The rod itself may not even be bent, but the ball joint in it may be.
You may try loosening the bolts on the sub frame and pulling it towards the passenger side. If you hit the passenger side wheel then it may have pushed the subframe towards the drivers side which would have made the passenger camber greater than the drivers side and would have pushed the toe out on the passenger side.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,767
Likes: 63
From: Trumbull CT
Car: 87 TA clone
Engine: 70/70 Turbo 5.3 LS
Transmission: bullet proof 2004R
Axle/Gears: ford 8.8, 3.55 gears
Re: cant seem to get my pass side wheel toe to be straight!
well when i had the "relay rod" or center link off i checked the play in the steering box... and i would move the steering linkage/shaft in the engine bay while holding the pitman arm. doesnt seem to be much play. i checked the play of the idler arm and the pitman arm and its all very little. but i could jerk the steering shaft in the engine bay and watch the steering wheel have most of the play. but if the steering wheel has the play how is it that the pass side wheel is off, something has changed for it the tie rods to be fully adjusted inwards and it to still be sticking out. i dnt think the Kmember has moved but i cant figure this out! very annoying.
i checked the tie rods and they were fine. so it has to be something that caused the pass side wheel to be pushed in etc. the Kmember Aarm bolts where fine as well. how can u shift the Kmember over with the engine in etc. just loosen the bolts and pry it over?
i checked the tie rods and they were fine. so it has to be something that caused the pass side wheel to be pushed in etc. the Kmember Aarm bolts where fine as well. how can u shift the Kmember over with the engine in etc. just loosen the bolts and pry it over?
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