Suspension gurus, are there any chassis & suspension "reference/theory books" that stand out, and are really good? Anyone have any favorites?

Admittedly, this isn't 3rd-gen specific, but it is relevant. I'm interested in IRS more than anything else though... Any suggestions are much appreciated

 

Here you go, swiped off another forum. Not all are still in print, but may be available if you try hard enough.
I've boldfaced here what I feel are the best softcover (Puhn) and hardcover (RCVD) books, respectively. The Adams, van Valkenburgh, and Smith books are good, with different emphasis. The Dixon books are also good, though I haven't been anywhere near all the way through either of them (could serve as college level texts).

Bet it was more than you expected


Norm

 

I will agree with Norm that the Fred Puhn book is the best I had to resource growing up.

I have looked at many times growing up the Miliken book as well as Shelbys TUne to win. I tyhink Puhns was best but it still lacked direction.

Once you "get it", yoiu look back at those books and realize just how confusing they are to interpet. There is no real direction where to start or the understanding of what to go to next. This is really unfortunately done through trial and error. Best example I can giove you is like a contractor working in homes with an apprentice at his side teaching things. When a job is done, the apprentice understands and sees how that particular job fell into place but then you take him to the next house and say "its your call, what do we do?" and he will scratch his head.

Suspension and chassis dynamics really is a hands on experience thing that is just way too hard to teach in a book. There needs to be so many graphs and sketches, and even those do not give the visual of what is happening all the time and ever changing points and leverage. Computer roll center programs really are nice, but I have not tinkered with them too much. It is often hard to get all the imaginary measurements to get the programs accurate to see how the chassis points are migrating about in suspension and chassis movements combined. It still takes ALOT of man power with a crew knowing what they are doing to gather data to plug into one of those programs for ever changing setups.

I can teach suspension dynamics, but really only in person in a real world setting where I am teaching as I am doing it- I find its the best way people learn is absorbing it as its used. I also find that probably only about 1 out of 20 people I try and teach the stuff to is actually getting it to the level needed to someday become a master. It really is something that takes a mentor at a race track or just plain trial and error over at least about 20 years. With that said, I could probably teach a college course on this, but I also know that 90% of the class would fail- its just so complex.

I am actually working tonight with one of my crewmembers on a setup. He will be watching me and asking questions as I string an entire chassis for testing this Friday night and racing Saturday night. I already have somewhat fixed points on the roll center heights (static heights that is, not dynamic)- so that is already done and out of the equation. What I will be working on is dynamic heights and Roll center "Yaw". This is something I have NEVER read in ANY suspension book but is SOOOO important in circle track racing. This just gives you an example of how vast chassis dynamics is that you can not learn it all in books. Books will explain RC migration, but they do not explain Roll axis yaw and leverage as a result of that yaw.

Dean

 

Norm, thank you! That's just what I was looking for

But that said... Do any of those books go into extremely long travel suspensions? I'm not sure if you're familiar with CORR type off-road racing. But that's what I'm really looking to get more knowledge about, that "type". (Of course, this is where everything stops being 3rdgen related...)

 

The longer the travel you want the longer the coilsprings for better constant rate. Offroad really getts $$$$ for shocks and springs. Some of those King shocks can cost as much as a whole car. I have done some tinkering with building little offroad buggies (Go kart type) so I have a little knowledge messing with them, butI do not know of any books.

 

That's what I was afraid of. Still, I suppose the same suspension principles apply, no matter the travel length.

Just curious, what was your experience like with the buggies you did? Any words of wisdom come out of it?

 

Just alot of fun and alot of broken parts I would make a point of trying to break them every time I took them out. It was fun experimenting and fabricating. I did this monthly for about 3 years just playing. We it broke, I would jump on the quads. I didn't spend alot of money on parts, I would even use the cheap long travel VW offroad coilovers you can buy for about $30

Even in road race suspensions, you want the longest coil wire spring possible for smoothness of function and thus grip. Barrel shaped springs have revolutionised the market. Take for instance the Beehive valve springs...same principle.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/albu...pictureid=5583

 

You want to learn about chassis and suspension, take one of Dave Morgan's courses.

http://www.davemorganseminars.com/

He's also published some of the driest reading about chassis and suspension but it's to the point and exactly what you need to know.

http://www.amazon.com/Door-Slammers-.../dp/0963121707