here the thing i work at a shop that does front end stuff and alignments... so i had them put on my spindles while i was working, well when they were done the car was dumped BUT there was a massive negative camber as a result... not a problem cause the alignment guy fixed the camber and aligned it....now here is the problem...
he said i need shorter Tie Rod Ends,
the wheels are aligned BUT the steering wheel is sideways while i'm driving forward...
anyone else have this problem?
and if so wher can i get shorter tie rod ends?
thanks

 

Wow, try another alignment shop...


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

 

N/M

just try another place first...

[This message has been edited by Xenodrgn (edited November 07, 2001).]

 

Your alignment guy is lazy.

let's think about it (I haven't yet).

The car drops which means you have to shorten the tie rods' overall length. this makes sense.

so the guy goes to shorten them up, but one ofthem bottoms out. so he leaves it alone and shortens the other one until the toe is right. this means that the pitman arm is not centered correctly on the steering box (I think).

Pull the pitman arm, center the steering wheel and the front wheels and reinstall the pitman arm.

armchair mechanic! <---I may have a future in this

Clem

------------------
SCCA TransAm Series Race Mechanic/CrewChief
-------------
1983 Z28 with LG4, 5 speed, and (unfortunately) T-tops
1983 Z28, NO T-tops, (unfortunately) Auto Transmission (hopefully not for long)
http://communities.msn.com/clemsprojects

 

oops, I forgot about the "dropped spindle" part. I was thining springs.

The solution is still the same, but the spindles must be quite different from stock ones to cause this. That's strange, but not necessarily evil.

Clem

 

LOL Clem, good stuff bud,

well, lemme catch something, did you say only drop spindels in the front????

im learning about this dropping dealio because im scraping my intermediate already, ,so was considering air suspension (DOES ANYONE KNOW ANYTHIUNG BOUT IT!!!!)

but how much did your spindels cost, and will the spindels work on a fourth gen rearend??

Thanx,

~FiRe

------------------
91 FireBird 305 V-8
Edelbrock Catback, Custom Alarm. Fourth Gen Console. i have six cupholders. all for starbucks!
Go|)Created The Earth, And Then Turned Up The Bass.
Here's My Audio Install!

"Honda's FOR ME TO POOP ON!" -Triumph...

 

my spindles were about $250 from Jegs,
you can put drop spindles on the rear of a 3rd or 4th gen... the reason being that the rear axle doesn't have spindles...if you wan tto lower the rear you gotta use lowering springs...

 

Not to be rude or anything guys but the reason for using dropped spindles is so that the steering and suspension geometry stays the same as stock! There should be no negative camber change (positive if any) and the toe should be an easy stock set procedure. That alignment guy must be a real hack!

------------------
84 Camaro ZZ4 with HOT cam. Ported Heads, Installed Larger Race-Flo Valves, RPM Air Gap Intake, and 1 3/4" SLP Headers (Best 60',Quarter Mile, MPH) (1.88, 12.91, 106.77)
Other Mods: You name it and I have probably changed it.

2001 Dodge Ram Quad Cab 5.9L 4*2

The Bowtie
ASE Certified Auto Tech
LIVE AND DIE BY THE ALMIGHTY BOWTIE!

 

thats why we have studs like camaromike...
so lowering springs does mess it?


but i could swear there was something about the rear by belltech in summit,

 

That's what I was thinking. I remember, after my accident, the gas station down the road from the body shop had to align my front suspension. If it was un-alignable, they'd send it back to the body shop, and back and forth. So; the guy told me it aligned, but he couldn't set the toe properly. I took it to "my" shop, the guys who know what they're doing, a few weeks later, and gave them the whole story. The guy laughed, and told me "toe's the easiest thing to set! We'll take care of ya." And yep, they did!


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

 

well belltech makes the springs that go on the rear to accompany the front spindles...

well the problem stiull has not been solved, is there even anyone here that has drop spindles, i'd like to hear from yah, even if you didn't have problems...

 

Bell tech drop spindles here. All I did was get an alignment, and no probs. Have you tried different shops yet?

------------------
1989 IROC-Z 5.7L
NOS 5151 150HP kit
ProBuilt 700R4, PI Vigilante 2800 stall lockup
Baer Brakes 12" Sport System

 

Bell Tech here too,
major problems

i had so much toe out that i couldnt leave the lot where we did the work. We had to adjust the tie rods so that there is no space between the adjusters and I still have the problem. I have been looking into a kit for baer brakes that might get rid of this problem.

There are a few options, changing tie rods or getting a different sleeve. Tried both with no luck.

------------------
Trans AM...The Muscle Car Lives
...Its just not at home at the moment...

Nosaints Coolzone

[This message has been edited by nosaint (edited November 10, 2001).]

 

hmm.. no problems on the camaro, but problems with the firebird....

well i work with the guy who did my alignment and he is looking for shorter tie rod ends that will work...
he had been doing alignments for over 30 years...he knows his stuff...he even knows just about everything on newer cars also...
so i trust that if he can't fix it, well then...

Oh by the way, nosaint, the alignment guy managed to get the toe and everything perfect, if i let go of my steering wheel it will go strait as an arrow, only problem i have is that the steering wheel looks crooked...
he had to adjust the camber...

[This message has been edited by Blaze of Glory (edited November 10, 2001).]

 

Hmmm...is this a stock steering wheel?

------------------
1989 IROC-Z 5.7L
NOS 5151 150HP kit
ProBuilt 700R4, PI Vigilante 2800 stall lockup
Baer Brakes 12" Sport System

 

yup

 

come on there has to be more people with drop spindles...
if anyone with drop spindles reads this, please just post if you had problems or not...
thanks


[This message has been edited by Blaze of Glory (edited November 14, 2001).]

 

Unbolt the steering wheel and line it up on the spline shaft.

------------------
87 TA, 305 TPI, Custom CAI, K&N, ACCEL 8mm wires,ACCEL Super-coil, ACCEL Plugs, JET TPI Airfoil, Cherry Bomb Muffler, 160* thermostat
The Phoenix Project..click to see my project car
Trans Am stuff and GIRLS, GIRLS, GIRLS!!!!!

 

I find it hard to believe that I had so much toe out that I had to screw in the tie rods and I have no adjustment left and other guys have no problems? What could cause this? All my parts are straight.

When u first dropped it how did your wheels look? mine were so bad it was undriveable.

Now my car is very darty, hard to conrol. Of course there is a inch of play and probally some warn out suspension parts that compound this problem

------------------
Trans AM...The Muscle Car Lives
...Its just not at home at the moment...

Nosaints Coolzone

 

nosaint, i have the same symptoms you got...
when they first put them in i had a massive negative camber...
basically my tires looked like this
/ \ they were bowed out like a mother f**ker

 

LOL. If he did that, his turn signals wouldn't cancel. It'd be all screwy. Take care of the problem right. Center everything. If you still need shorter Tierod ends (you won't) then cut them down a little.
I still say your alignment guy is lazy (or stupid)

Clem

 

what is supposed to be the advantage of spindles over lowering springs. Their must be one for you guys to go through all of this trouble but what is it.

Thanks

Ben

 

OK Blaze of Glory

I have drop spindles. My alignment is fine. My steering wheel on the other hand is off. Its about 10:00. When I had my alignment on my car my roommate took the car in. And told him I need shorter tie rod arms and he could cut them. Next time I bring the car in.

Came back about 6 months latter to the same guy. Later on that day, he told me that my drop spindles were bent. He showed me that the tie rod-receiving arm should be closer to the rim.

He wanted be to go back to where I bought them. Lucky for my, they were under warranty.

Well…. After I took off the right side. I compared the new spindle to the old they were the same

At this point, I think the alignment guy is smoking some thing.

Unfortunly, I have a new project now restoring 89 Corvette. The Firebird took the back burner for now. I hope to take of it some time next year.

 

For those of you who remember my steering/suspension/brake upgrades.I reccomend removing the tie rod and sleeve.Use a cutoff wheel to remove approx 7/16" from both of the theaded portions that screw into the sleeve.Then reassemble with some rudementary tape measure toe in settings.Then go to the alignment shop and have the toe set at 1/4 toe in. That should do the trick.

 

That was my next project as i dont need much room to get the wheels pointed in the right direction. Has anyone looked into this Baer tie rod kit?



[This message has been edited by nosaint (edited November 15, 2001).]

 

Thanks Andy, i'll have to give that a try...
if not then those adjustable tie rod ends might work...
but there is still the burning question...Why do some people have problems and others don't?
I thought that area was basically the same with all our cars, but perhaps i'm wrong...
so far all i've seen is that firebirds have problems and camaro's don't
so are there any camaro's out there that had problems, and some firebirds that didn't have any problems?
if the suspensions are exactly the same, then does any one have any ideas as to why some have problems and others don't?

 

lets not be shy, a little participation wont kill anyone...

 

Have you called Bell Tech's support line? I'm sure they must have one. I still don't see how, if everything's centered, the steering wheel is way off. This would mean that one tie rod end is cranked "way in" and the other isn't. I say to crawl under there and look for funny stuff, call BellTech, and go to another alignment shop.

------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)