ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

With all the different brake mods floating around, I'm searching for input. I've got the parts for the 1LE front swap already, so that's not an issue.

On Daniel Burke's "How to upgrade to 1LE brakes" page, he lists the part numbers to upgrade the rear calipers to the non-screw in type. It seems pretty easy, and I'm wondering if anyone has done it and how it turned out for them. I'm debating on switching rears from my present 9 bolt to either a 89-newer PBR rear or a 4th gen with the big 12" brakes, but I'm also trying to stick to a budget. Any input is appreciated.

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Ed Miller
Charlotte, NC
1991 RS, 305 TBI,
bone stock driver;
1988 IROC L98
TPIS Fast Pack, modified MAF, MSD 6A, Dynomax cat-back so far.

"Do you want to race or don't ya? I want to race." Dale Earnhardt

mystikkal_69

iTrader: (2)

Well I would Strongly Recommend and 89 Or Newer 10 Bolt Rearend With The PBR Setup. I am currently going through hell with my 9 Bolt. I would recommend getting The 10 Bolt since parts for the 9 are expensive and hard are find. Good Luck.

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88' IROC-Z, 350 TPI, 700-R4

TomP

I've rebuilt one of my rear calipers (the other was rusted beyond help); but I think you're asking about swapping, not rebuilding...


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

Apeiron

What do you mean by "screw-in" and "non-screw-in" types?

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

TomP, I would much rather rebuild my existing calipers since I wouldn't have to do many mods and I wouldn't have to fit in a different rear(switch brake lines, e-brake cables, etc.) But if rebuilding them costs me decent braking performance, I will look for another option. With the 1LEs up front, I think these would do fine if I get them working properly. Again, my upgrade is budget driven.

Apeiron, pre-89 calipers had screw in pistons in the calipers which require constant use of the e-brake to keep them adjusted correctly. These constantly failed and therefore GM stopped using them and went to the PBR types on the rear in 89. Refer to Daniel's page, the rear brake section, for a little more info than I can provide.

http://www.isthq.com/~dan/1LEbrake.html

Thanks guys.

Apeiron

Ok I thought you were talking about 2 different versions of the Moraine calipers. New actuators were released which fixed the problem, I have a spare set of actuators and seals here somewhere if you want to rebuild yours.

TomP

That's what I've heard, too, that the service bulletin parts completely fix the 82-88 problem. I've yet to put those new actuators into my calipers... maybe next month.

But the rebuild was simple; it was a textbook procedure. I bought a seal kit from http://www.expressautoparts.com for $12, it had all I needed. I also bought new caliper mounting bolts (Bendix, per bolt, #H5014, $7) and a slide/bushing pack (Bendix, covers both calipers in one pack, #H5611, $7). The info in my Haynes 82-92 Firebird manual was the same exact stuff as was in my '86 GM Service Manual.


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

Apeiron

There's a single kit you can get from GM with all the parts needed to replace the actuators. It's cheaper than buying the parts individially.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Hey Tom, it sounds like that rebuild you did is right up my alley. I'll definitely look into it.

Apeiron, how complete is your spare set of seals and actuators? Is it the same as the GM rebuild kit? If they're complete, I'd be interested in them. I'd appreciate the info, and thanks again for all replies.

Rootin' for that 29 car!!

Apeiron

It is the GM kit, #18019028 Caliper Repair Kit. Contains seals, actuators and dampening springs for both sides. My brain wasn't working when I ordered it, for some reason I was thinking I needed one for each side instead of one per car, so I ended up with 2 but never got around to returning the extra one.

Tom, just curious, what did you use to press the pistons in?

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Apeiron, if you'd let go of that extra rear caliper rebuild kit, send me a note. I'd like to take it off your hands. Thanks.

TomP

Apeiron, is that the kit # with the new updated pistons?

I just used a c-clamp to press the pistons back in. I think I mimmicked up a piece of wood to go into the caliper where the brake pads were, to hold the piston in it's bore when I removed the c-clamp. Or, maybe I used cardboard? I used something. I put that block in halfway, removed the clamp, and pushed the block in the rest of the way. I found if I covered the bleeder hole with my finger, the piston sealed itself, and was less apt to pop out. I was actually able to push the piston in halfway with my fingers, but couldn't get it any further. Just make sure the actuator screw is aiming for the hole. Did yours have trouble going back in?

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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

[This message has been edited by TomP (edited August 28, 2001).]

Bjase

So would the rebuilt '84 calipers I got from Advance Auto feature this improved actuator? I got the whole rear for $50, and have been debating whether to put the discs on, or wait to find an '89-up set.

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88 IROC with cobbled together (not by me)drivetrain, 86 (?) TPI unit,CE subframe connectors, Edelbrock strut tower brace, polygraphite bushings all around...it handles like a dream, but man is it hard to push!!

Apeiron

Sure, that spare kit's not doing me any good sitting there on the shelf. Send me an e-mail.

That P/N is the one from the recall for manual transmission cars, and includes 2 new actuator assemblies, gaskets & seals, and 2 dampening springs. The TSB for automatic cars listed the parts by their individual P/N's, which cost more when I checked at the parts counter.

I didn't actually put the new pistons in myself, I removed them and stripped them and took them down to the dealer where they did them for me for something like $20.

It's hard to say if rebuilt ones will have the new actuator or not, especially with cheap rebuilds. Sometimes you'll find one of them has the new actuator and the other doesn't.

TexasLT1

I just finished rebuilding my calipers tonight (pre-89) and it went off without a hitch. but my question is, what purpose does the dampening spring serve and is it absolutely required. if so, where do I get two because mine are missing

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-'92 RS with self-installed '95 LT1
-Heddman Headers
-TPIS throttle body airfoil
-MSD 6-AL Ignition
Kills
-'97 Mustang Cobra
-'98 V6 Camaro
-'89 5.0 ****stang
-'97 Sebring
-'96 ****stang Cobra

Losses
-'99 Mustang GT
-'96 Mustang Cobra
-'95 Z28 (good race)
-'96(?) Turbo Eclipse (d*mn good race, heavily modified)

TomP

The damping spring on the outside of the piston? It's the only thing that holds the inner brake pad to the caliper. I bought mine from GM for $7 each. If you mean the damper inside the caliper's e-brake return spring, well, I don't know. My rear axle didn't come with 'em, and I'm not using them now, and GM didn't have a part # for me.

BJase, I wouldn't bet on it. As I said, I bought my '84 3.73/posi/disc from a junkyard. Both calipers were rusty, but one was too far gone for a rebuild (insane rust inside the bore). I rebuilt one, and replaced the other one with a $60 Pep Boys "lifetime" caliper. The piston on the Pep Boys one looked brand new- the edges were sharp, it was shiny, etc- so I figured it might be the new version.

Well, the one I rebuilt works great- it grabs the rotor during normal driving, and when I use the parking brake. The Pep Boys one I bought works like crap- the pads still look brand new, and this was a year ago. Apparently the guy who owned the '84 had the recall work done, and I gave Pep Boys the "fixed" caliper.

I'm still not sure the original caliper is fixed, or if I just rebuilt it really well! So I'm going to buy the recall parts- and thanks for the info, Apeiron. I'll have to price that package at the dealer. I originally priced the parts separately, and it was near $300.

TexasLT1, did you give those calipers a new shot of caliper paint? It really shines 'em up!


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

TexasLT1

D*MNIT! I knew there was something I wanted to do befor eI put them back together. since my rearend is powdercoated red I was going to paint all for calipers red too. oops! guess Ill just use lots of tape and newspaper. anyway, yeah I guess I will have to get two of the springs, I forgot that my front calipers were the new style and had the metal piece that went on the back on the pads and into the piston. Ill try to find them.

Apeiron

GM list on the kit is $53.06 according to gmpartsdirect.com, they have it for $31.84.

Unless I'm adding wrong, the individual parts add up to $270.56 list or $136.56 from gmpartsdirect.com.

[This message has been edited by Apeiron (edited August 30, 2001).]

Breazlan

iTrader: (1)

So how does the factory upgrade parts perform? Has it provided trouble free use? Does it help overall braking ability?

Also, what would happen if I used this rear disc setup with a master cylinder from a rear drum car?

[This message has been edited by Breazlan (edited November 14, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Breazlan (edited November 14, 2001).]

Breazlan

iTrader: (1)

`

[This message has been edited by Breazlan (edited November 14, 2001).]

Apeiron

The repair kit has been working fine for me so far. The parking brake works, and the rear calipers keep their proper clearance.

There's no real problem using the drum M/C with a disc rear and vice versa. Your pedal travel and effort will be different, which may or may not matter to you.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Man, I didn't know this thread was still out there. For an update, I scored a 89 9-bolt from Michael Ramsey (who is highly recommended to work with) with the complete brake setup and I will be using that rear in place of my '88 rear when I get around to rebuilding it and swapping to 3.xx gears. It seems like the best option for me at the moment and should work great.

Apeiron, sorry for not getting back to you either way on that rebuild kit, I lost track of the topic after I got the new rear.

Breazlan

iTrader: (1)

"Your pedal travel and effort will be different, which may or may not matter to you."

Would you know how it might be different? Degree of change and its characteristics.

As you probably have guessed, I am considering a different rear end with this setup and would like to know if the brakes are going to be a problem.

Breazlan

iTrader: (1)

Would I be able to tell if the upgrade has been made by taking the caliper off and inspecting it?

Apeiron

Take a look here for more info on the differences between the cylinders.

https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/001977.html

I didn't notice any externally visible differences between the "good" and "bad" calipers.

[This message has been edited by Apeiron (edited November 16, 2001).]

TomP

I thought I'd bring this to the top again...

Well, I just put on -another- master cylinder... same bad brakes. When I first press the brakes, the pedal sinks to the floor in a heartbeat, and I get the "brake" light. If I quickly release the pedal and press again, my brakes come back. I thought I had a bad m/c (bled it, same braking problem), so I replaced it... apparently my problem isn't the m/c. I think it's the bad rear caliper...

Of course, the pad is 1/4" away from the rotor. The first press of the brake pedal brings the pad against the rotor. After a quick release and quick 2nd press of the brake pedal, the caliper doesn't have a chance to retract- and I get normal brakes.

So I'm going to order that #18019028 caliper repair kit Monday... I can't deal with this anymore! Thanks again for the part #, Apeiron; I'll let you know how it goes. I can't believe that $32 kit comes with both sides!


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

camaro6spd

Is this correct?
This is what gmpartsdirect.com gives me for that part number...
18019028
All
ACTUATOR
1
$55.86
$41.89
$31.84
$0.00


Is that the whole kit even tho it only says actuator?

laiky

Like a moron i got the recall 10 or so yaers ago when i first owned my 84 ( stick ) but ignored it. now i bought it back ( totaly rebuilt the whole friggin thing and need the ebrake to work without weekly adjustments. Does anybody have a PN for the recall upgrade kits, please help

super_kev

iTrader: (4)

I'm going to resurrect this thread from the dead, as there's no sense in posting a new thread about it...

After reading through this and 10 other threads found with "e-brake", "parking brake" and other related searches, I still have this question: will this rebuild kit (from GM) fix the problem of the e-brake not working on a '85 disc rear? Or would it be better (from an e-brake standpoint; bigger, more expensive brakes are not important right now) to do this swap?

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I did the rebuild kit on my 85 IROC (before I went with PBRs), and the e-brake worked fine afterward.

JamesC

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

It will fix it, but when I went to go and fix mine I found that fresh rebuilt calipers from autozone with all the new parts already in them cost less then rebuilding them myself.

The new ones work fine, but I so detest the whole way that thing was designed that I’m not even swapping them over to my 9”, I just got a complete, LT1 rear brake assembly to put on it.

Apeiron

It seems to be hit or miss whether rebuilt calipers will actually have the recall parts in them or not. Some do and some don't.