cel19

Hey guys. my car is no longer with a rear sway bar....I didnt think about measuring the diameter of my stock sway bar to use for purchase of a new sway bar.....lets jump in

1. Dont suppose anyone knows the stock rear sway bar diameter for a 1987 camaro Sport Coupe??

2. What are the differences in sway bars...such as...0.875".....1"....or 1.75"...which is more suitable for the types of driving....straight drag... street with a drag strip once a month.....or a street car that likes to run auto course

Any help before I do a random purchase?? would be awesome.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Sport Coupes being the lowest nase-model version of the Camaro, IF they even had a sway bar AT ALL, it was pretty small. Varied from year to year. Probably 19 or 21mm.

Their dia is generally measured in mm on these cars.

The difference in the sway bar diameter is .... their .... {drum roll please} diameter. {cymbal crash} Which in turn denotes their stiffness. A little goes a long way: stiffness varies with the CUBE of the diameter, all else being equal; meaning, if you double the dia, it's 8 TIMES AS STIFF.

Generally the more performance-oriented ones got larger bars, which in conjunction with stiffer springs, provide better handling. It's REAL EASY though, by an inappropriate choice, to make a car very unstable and unsafe; especially by putting in TOO MUCH rear bar at the same time as NOT ENOUGH front bar, and then handing it to an inexperienced driver, who will promptly stomp on the brakes and yank the steering wheel at the same time, causing it to swap ends. And inexperienced drivers have enough trouble reliably directing a car through traffic with the front end in front, and usually do even more poorly when the rear is in front of the front. This orientation of the vehicle never seems to lead to a positive outcome and should be avoided.

Which is exactly how a pure drag car is set up; to allow the rear to COMPLETELY control the car's attitude. The whole front of the car is nothing but dead weight in that application.

For a street car, good combinations are usually 34/22 or 36/24, in conjunction with good springs. (which would NOT include wore-out old stock ones, ESPECIALLY not the comfort-ride ones that came on SCs, but even "WS6" ones aren't much better)

For autocross or other types of racing that involve turns, tuning the suspension to the driver and the track is usually necessary; it's not quite so much of a one-size-fits-all proposition.

Not sure about an "auto course". What is that?

L695speed

sofakingdom, I think the OP means Autocross.

To the OP, if you're looking for sway bars sofakingdom is correct, too much of one bar and not enough of the other can change the car's characteristics. I've seen this personally, not on a third gen but on my Outback wagon. I swapped out a broken 13mm rear bar with a 17mm rear bar, it bites into the corner better and doesn't understeer as much working in conjunction with a 20mm front. If I really tried I could probably have it spin on me.

Seeing as you're in the market for sway bars, I would stay away from the aftermarket ones. Nice product, but they don't do much more if anything more than the factory ones. If you're serious about the autocross circuit, I would run a 34 or 36mm front factory bar (they come up for sale around the web in various ways more often than not) and depending on your handling taste, I would run either a 19, 20, 21 in the rear or a 24 in the rear. Crawl the junk yards, they can be found dirt cheap there. I have heard that the smaller bars are more street friendly, the 24 and maybe 23 mm bars are best on a smooth track, can induce snap oversteer on bumpy pavement. Don't let that deter you, I've run a 32/23mm setup and it was fairly well balanced.

cel19

To sofakingdom & L695speed....you have given me much to ponder...if i may assume that the set ups thrown up here such as 34/22....36/24 or~ 32/ 23.....curiousity would tell me that...front bars are larger than rear bars?....also larger bar on front...smaller bar on rear...would dictate that the front has more control than the rear???

on just a side note and i dont know if it'll help you but im sure it greatly influences my purchase......I grew up with the family and their muscle cars from 69 Buick Skylark....65 Chevelle....67 Monte carlo....all handled like GODZILLA...tap the gas and its a self induced donut without turning the wheel ( this may slightly exaggerated )....my father, my uncle and my fathers cousin would let me drive these beasts around the farm to just have fun and the way they handled is what i prefer.....also I cant drive front wheel drive. its weird...im no professional but id say im more adequate and handling a "boat" and i would say a precision car like a porsche............


Thankyou for your explanations it was a huge help and jumped me from unknown facts to a bit of knowledge. Much obliged

L695speed

Yeah, the rear swaybar as a critical component in the rear suspension is a relatively recent thing. As was said, even in the mid 80s some cars didn't even have a rear sway bar. Back in the muscle car era, it was all about straight line speed and ride, though Europe had a more handling biased ideology. The cars you mentioned if they had one would only have a front sway bar. The main reason behind the bigger front sway bars on these cars is due to weight. With an iron V8 up front naturally there is alot more weight up front. My daily which I mentioned has a flat 4 cylinder, less weight needs a smaller bar. I've driven the daily with no rear sway bar, and it was terrible. Handled like a boat, I've also driven it with no front bar (it snapped on me) and that was even worse. Engine and drivetrain layout also dictate handling characteristics. You hear of the talk from Porsche people of lift off snap oversteer, that is because the back end has all the weight. Even mid engine cars despite all the acclaim for the layout and handling, will step out, we have an MR2 and Fiero, I've had the MR2 step out on damp pavement. These cars it is said you can control it with the throttle, if you want instant oversteer, just floor it in a corner LOL.

cel19

HAh awesome...tell me what you think and im open to you giving me criticism....im gettin it tonight because i need to get my ride back on the road...so heres what im thinking of getting..... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-720205/ ....... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-720204/ .....now i dont know if these rices are good...but what i hear is that summitracing buys the rights to put their logo and other brand name parts and they sell it for less....with that i figured the summit brand shoulld be cheap?? and still buying a quality part hopefully

ZZ3 Z28

If you want to know the diameter of a sway bar, or anything for that matter, use one of these.

cel19

Not going to lie...I've never seen one of those...what and where can I get one

L695speed

I second what he said, sometimes its hard to tell if its a 34 or a 36 without reference.

Anyway, it translates to a 25.4mm sway bar for the rear, and a 33.4 sway bar for the front. It might be a bit touchy on bumpy roads. If you found a 36mm one it will probably be better balanced. I know 15th anniversary cars came with a 25mm from the factory, some 85 WS6 birds came with them too.

As for the prices, well.... most of us on here prefer cheap upgrades. So the cheaper we can find them, the better off we are hence the majority of us hunt for stock factory sway bars at the yards and just add poly bushings and end links. For example...
I found my 36mm for 15 bucks, I also could have gotten a 36mm front and 24mm rear combo for probably 25 bucks. I already had my 23mm since it was factory original to the car. So its all about how you are financially.

They look like nice pieces, but as we say, whats the point when the factory ones can be found for dirt and do the job just as well if not better. Bang for the buck, the parts you linked no offense are nowhere near the best deal. But if you have the money, I don't see why not. However I would see if I could find a bigger front bar to better balance the 25mm rear for the street. Keep in mind, sway bars are an easy swap. If you don't like it you can switch to a smaller one providing you have the bushings.

cel19

Well, i was at the only two local junkayrd here and there was only one thridgen camaro...and no ther thridgen anything....only a ton of fourth generation camaros...id much rather pay 15 than 150 also but i dont think i have a choice unless i try ebay.. =( sad face...a grim day indeed when a man cant find a pick at a junk yard...walking away defeated and out 2 dollars

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

4th gen rear sway bars bolt right up to a 3rd gen. Identical.

cel19

.....*angelic chorus* and new hope arises....also im sure its self explanitory but why there are "solid" bars and "hollow" bars...wouldnt solid bars be choice instead of hollow bars....i cam across it while just reading up more about suspension components

L695speed

Good to know, what sizes did the fourth gens use?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No idea... roughly similar to the 3rd gen but I have no clue as to the details.

Take along a couple of open-end wrenches in that size range (22 - 24 mm, more or less) to the junkyard while hunting.

The ENTIRE 4th gen rear suspension is the same as the 3rd gen.

Because hollow is lighter; and because in torsion, the material in the middle of the bar doesn't do anything anyway, the part that's most active is the outermost "layer" of metal atoms. A hollow bar is about 95% as stiff as a solid one of the same diameter while weighing probably 70% less, in stock mass-produced ones.

cel19

Interesting...thanks for all the information fellas. Its been a huge help

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

In general, the 4th gen cars used a SMALLER rear bar than the 3rdgen WS6s.
I'm running a 4thgen V6 rear 18mm bar (4 street) on my 89 formula 350. To me, it works waay better than the big boy it came with due to less harsh and soaks up the bumps better around corners.
I do change it out to the OEM WS6 bar when I hit the track.

L695speed

Thanks Sofakingdom. I knew the rear suspensions were identical on the 4th gens, just forgot about it. Funny because I used a 4th gen to get some parts from the dealer for the 84. If I find some 4th gens at the yard I'll check them out too for the rear bars. Thanks for the reminder.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

FWIW, the 34 and 36mm stock fronts are hollow, the smaller ones are solid. The 32mm solid front I believe is very similar in stiffness to a 34mm hollow, but the hollow bar will be lighter.

4th gens typically came with much smaller bars than 3rd gens, if I remember right, my '97 WS6 has a 32mm front and 19 or 21mm rear.

Honestly, I really liked the solid 32/24mm c (poly bushings on the front, rubber on the back) that I had on my 83. I'm not a big fan of the 36/24 combination that came on both my 87's, but most people tend to go for bigger fronts and smaller rears than I like so take that with a grain of salt

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

I liked how my 36/24 combo felt when I drove my car. This combo came stock on my 86 IROC.

It's all a matter of preference, though.

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

That's just a digital caliper used to measure in mm or inches. You can pick one up at a gun store that sells reloading supplies. You may be able to get one at Sears or Ace, too, but I'm not sure. I love mine. It sure comes in handy a lot of the time.

1991_RS

If you're referring to the picture of the tool measuring the sway bar, that's a caliper (not to be confused with the ones on your brakes).

They can be bought at many tool shops and through many catalogs. Google MSC Industrial Supply, Reid Tool Supply, Production Tool Supply, or any other local tool supplier. A cheap but adequate pair of calipers (they're referred to as a pair, like scissors and jeans) should run you under $50 - sometimes under $30. They would be fine for working on your own projects. A good machinist-quality pair would easily run you over $100.

I have my good pair at work and a cheap pair at home. That way, when my kids drop them, I'm only out $30, not $150.