Can't decide which to do, I've been told not to do ground control and just do hotchkis with kyb adjustables? Which is better? I want a good daily driver setup that will handle better than stock so I can auto cross on the weekends, a stiffer ride wont bother me at all

 

I have Hotchkis 1" drop spring with KYB shocks, I'm happy with the setup

 

I have KYB shocks and i am unimpressed

 

I would NOT run stiffer than stock springs (the only real reason to run Ground Control) with anything other than Konis or possibly Bilstiens. You simply won't have the damping to handle the stiffer spring.

 

so what way would you reccomend? ground control or KYB+hotchkis?

 

why are you set on KYB's, do you already have them?? they suck for lowered cars

get Koni's.. do it right the 1st time... your KYB's wont last very long


at bare minimum get Tokico Illumina's

 

I'm not set on them it was a suggestion from a friend lol I'm open to what ever will be a good set up so any suggestions are very welcome

 

Most people don't have $800 to spend on shocks/struts alone. The Tokico's should be fine.

 

Fixed that for you.

So because most people don't want to spend the money to do it correctly, we should stop telling them how and try to make them feel better by saying the parts that "should be fine" are the best choice? Sorry, I'm going to keep recommending the "right" thing, not the "those will probably work" thing.

We're not doing anyone any favors by upselling them something they don't need. I know *I* don't make any commission on any sets of Konis that are bought via my recommendations here. Even more so though, we're really not doing people favors be telling them they should feel good about buying inferior parts.

*Personally*, I consider stock Konis as the entry level performance shock, with the Bilstein a decent substitute. I know that if I were running more spring rate than about 800lb up front and 200lb rear, and the car was close to stock weight (over 3200lb), I buy a set of Konis (preferably used) and IMMEDIATELY send them to be revalved to handle the spring rates. I've actually seen 3 sets of thirdgen Konis dyno'd, and the conclusions are simple- They'll handle stock springs very well new, and marginally after 60k street miles. They'll be marginal for 1000 lb/in springs when new, and sub-par once exposed to any real use. It's also worth noting that BRAND NEW KYB AGXs performed worse than the used Konis. The KYB GR2s (new in box) that were tested were probably only really useful as droop limiters in any car other than a lightweight, lightly sprung car, and even then they were ridiculously inadequate. Those were the only shocks tested that day (we were doing A Sedan testing, and someone grabbed the KYBs just to see the results), so I cannot speak for Tokicos or any others with specific data, but from my experience the Tokicos typically damp slightly better than the AGX, not nearly as well as Koni oranges, and are nowhere in the same league as Koni yellows.

I run Koni yellows with cut IROC springs, and have decent results. That;s the only combo I can personally recommend.

 

I disagree with some of your logic, not any knowledge that you may poses. I do not think that If someone doesn't buy the absolute best part there is then they are doing it wrong. Example: Buying a set of Trick Flow cylinder heads instead of AFR heads is not wrong; they both do the job but the better flowing head makes more power. Same goes with tires, if you want to a better autocross tire, go with a Street ET or other DOT legal tire, just because you buy a lesser tire doesn't make it a wrong choice.

 

Tibo,

I'm not saying anyone is wrong for running any combo they choose. I'm simply saying that if people want to know what combo is best, I'd prefer not to cloud things. I was merely saying that if the OP was going to spend $460 on springs and then junk it up with KYB shocks, that would not deliver a combo that worked well, nor would it be a good value. $460 for Ground Control + $480 for KYB adjustables = $940. Better to spend $800 of that on Konis and buy and cut some Moog springs. Also, last I saw, Tokico Illuminas ran about $650 for the set, so why not spend the few extra bucks and get the right shocks, rather than those that are "just fine"?

I see it all as cost/benefit. If it costs 20% more to get 100% improved performance, than wouldn't that be the best choice? Not right or wrong, but *best*.

At the same time, if someone said "I have $600 to spend on shocks, what's the best I can get?", then the Tokicos would probably be the answer...

 

I've ran KYB with stock springs. They were decent, obviously better than stock and felt fine on the street and I had a few autocross runs with them. Then I installed an 800/200 Ground Control set up. They were "OK" at best, and they definitely suck for a car that lowered more than 2". They can't control that kind of spring rate, and street driving felt "floaty" like the car wasn't very stable over bumps. Then I installed Koni yellows. I couldn't believe how much better they made the car feel. During street driving they feel firm yet more comfortable than the KYB's, they actually absorb the bumps and road inequalities much better. The car feels 1000x more stable at high speeds. Had my car up to 140+ and it still felt very stable, doing that with the KYB's is a whiteknuckle experience. They really shine on an autocross course, the balance of the car was no longer upset by varying road surfaces during cornering. They allowed me to have much more control and focus on driving rather than keeping the car pointed in my intended direction.

 

well i did end up ording some ground control weight jakcs, 800 front/150 rear so i will deffinetly try to get some koni's but we will see what my budget says, whts the next best in your opinion from koni's?

 

Bilstein HD's. If I were to do it again I would have gotten AST dampers. I was ready to buy them but they were in the middle of revamping their lineup so they didn't have any of the old models left and the new model wasn't released.