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With 51K on it, I suggest you start with a new centerlink, idler arm, and tie rod ends. Burn out the old rubber bushings from your lower control arms and press in some polyurethane bushings. Check the lower ball joints and replace them if there is any wear. Get the basic suspension up to snuff. That will take you through a few hundred dollars. Then, make sure that your power steering gear is not leaking and that the rag joint is not oil soaked and mushy. Pull out the steering box and go through the service manual and make sure that it's adjusted to factory preloads. That will tighten up your steering and won't cost you a lot of money.
Then you 'll be ready for upgrading your suspension.
I've been studying my third-gen suspension for 27 years, and gone through a lot of different setups. Some of the very LAST things I think you will want to replace are the strut tower bushings, or adding a strut tower brace. Those are for the last 1% of suspension performance and won't do you any good if you have a loose steering gear or loose centerlink. Once you have a good foundation, then you can add some good struts and rear shocks- such as the Koni Sport, or Bilstein, or KYB. KYB's work well on a budget.
Don't forget your front-end alignment! -1 to -2 degree negative camber (if you can even get that much), 5 degrees castor, and a little bit of toe-in. The performance alignments are found elsewhere on this website.
For the rear of the car, you can do the same as the front, and put in high durometer rubber bushings into your lower control arms and weld in a strip of steel in the bottom to box them in. Or, you can buy some used LCA's from someone on the board - preferrably ones with poly bushings and not spherical bearings. I have spherical bearings and they transmit a lot of road noise into your car. Then, when they finally loosen up, you get a lot of banging and clunking. For a race car, it's great, but for a street car, you can't beat poly bushings.
Next, are the weld-in subframe connectors. When I added subframe connectors to my car, it was noticeable. (I added them in 1999).
I suspect that once you get to that point, you will probably have used up your $1000 but it'll be one heck of a fun ride.
Only 51k, that's great.
I agree with STiG, shocks and mounts. Long term you should invest in SFC as well, but that would break the 1k budget.
Make mo' money, bank the slurpee money.
Only 51k, that's great.
I agree with STiG, shocks and mounts. Long term you should invest in SFC as well, but that would break the 1k budget.
Make mo' money, bank the slurpee money.
Oh Great, Now STG is the STiG.
But yes, Resaon I did not say wear parts is the car only has 51K on it. They have 100K to go is most cases.
As for TransAms comment of the "Last" thing you need is strut mounts? It is the very first thing I tell everyone to replace. The OEM mounts have a big sloppy rubber dounut that flexes badly even when new when you hammer the brakes and turn the wheel into a corner. They take away response- Driver control is everything. Strut mounts- replace them when you put on new struts which is #1A on the list of performance parts (Spend all of your money here) and on #1B (strut mounts- they should be done at he same time you replace struts so you are not doing redondant cost in alignemnts and labor).
Now with that said, I will bet dollar to dollar against anyone that we take the same car and I buy Konis and strut mounts, you buy anything you want and we race. Youc an buy all your tubular this and that with average shocks and I gaurantee my stock OEM car with just Konis and strut mounts will beat it and feel far safer at speed, braking, and cornering.
The STiG (In TEDS words...lol)
Some say....
EDIT TO ADD: I will also not that Bilsteins do not hold a candle to Koni Yellows. I put some crappy B6 Bilsteins on my little S10 truck because Koni did not have a listing for it and was looking for a decent upgrade for one of my daily drivers (Yes I have two trucks). Those Bilsteins mioght as well be KYB's. In my eyes they are unsafe and crap. A small step up from OEM. I was very disappointed as I should have known better. Last Bilsteins I bought were 30 years ago- I regretted it them, and I regret it again today. I even have Koni Yellows on my Brabus Mercedes.
Last edited by SlickTrackGod; 04-11-2017 at 10:34 AM.
If you look closely at the car facing backwards wiping out half the field- that's me with the Jack head on top of the car screwing around in front of 7000 fans taking out a few of my buddies in a skid plate race. Crowd loves carnage. LMAO This race is not about winning, its about catching your buddies sleeping and smashing the crap out of them.
To go slightly off the path of others, I would have a reputable shop look over the car and determine if any of the bushings or steering components need to be replaced. If yes, replace those first. With only 51k on the car, they should still be good but the environment may have done them in too if the car has been in Phoenix it's entire life. If nothing needs to be replaced, start with shocks/struts and strut mounts like STG suggested. That will give you the most noticeable improvement to start with and quality components will consume the $1000 especially if you are paying someone else for the install. Include budget for an alignment after replacing these items.
What is your thoughts on boxing stock rear control arms and a set of typical rubber moog replacement bushings?
Coca-Cola of course (note the shirts in the pic above and my avatar)
Nothing wrong with boxing the OEM control arms but I would not go as far as replacing the bushings with stock ones. Don;t see why when urethane ones are pretty cheap. Best bet is to just buy some aftermarket arms and save the headaches in my opinion. Ryan over at UMI sells standard replacement tubular arms for $90 if that's all you want to do is keep OEM geometry and replace worn parts (not caring about being vintage)
What is your thoughts on boxing stock rear control arms and a set of typical rubber moog replacement bushings?
As the song goes "my favorite flavor Cherry Red"
I thought about doing that to my stockers. By the time you weld, paint, buy new bushings and have them pressed in you might as well just by the stuff from Founders Performance. LCA with urethane bushings are under $80 for the pair.
Coca-Cola of course (note the shirts in the pic above and my avatar)
Nothing wrong with boxing the OEM control arms but I would not go as far as replacing the bushings with stock ones. Don;t see why when urethane ones are pretty cheap. Best bet is to just buy some aftermarket arms and save the headaches in my opinion. Ryan over at UMI sells standard replacement tubular arms for $90 if that's all you want to do is keep OEM geometry and replace worn parts (not caring about being vintage)
I was messing around in the garage the other day and dug out my original boxed rear arms with poly or urethane. I took them off the car because they squeeked soo bad no matter what I used to lube them. I forgot how crappy they were when I removed them. The poly just slid out of the shells when I rotated the arms to look them over. Not sure if it was wear or if they compressed. I used to run it hard on the street with ET streets all the time.
Was thinking of removing my rod ended arms (I know) for these so I can speak to people in the car while putting around at at elevated speeds.
Lots of great information here and I appreciate that. My last Iroc before this one was 10 years ago so found one that was clean and not molested so I can do some mods to it.
I obviously am trying to do stuff right but affordably which don't always happen. I know I can do some stuff to get some cheap HP like headers and exhaust along with getting rid of the smog stuff. For me I miss my old car as it handled fairly well with minimal mods, just lowered with Moog springs and hugged the road. This car is nothing like that was even with the low miles.
I got some inner/outer tie rod ends for it and also some KYBs that will be put on soon. I know the KYBs are budget and have saw mixed reviews. I am planning on doing Vogtland springs, Spohn strut tower bar, and founders LCAs and panhard bar. I think I will add in the strut mounts too after reading here.
I know I will be going slightly over my $1000 budget but I think the handling should be noticeable. Then my next move is wheel/tires for it, maybe 18x9 Riddler 650s. I do have to get my temp gauge replaced on it as I did the sensor and no luck so thinking its the gauge. Car has GU6 10 bolt non posi rear with drum brakes which is a bummer. Also doing the brake master cylinder on it as my brakes are really soft.
My last Iroc had a disc brake posi. Body and interior are in very nice shape and the car is not a daily driver for me so I can do stuff here and there. Bought it like 6 or 7 months ago and only drove it a handful of times around the block. I want to get these things done and enjoy it a bit more then I have.
Lots of great information here and I appreciate that. My last Iroc before this one was 10 years ago so found one that was clean and not molested so I can do some mods to it.
I obviously am trying to do stuff right but affordably which don't always happen. I know I can do some stuff to get some cheap HP like headers and exhaust along with getting rid of the smog stuff. For me I miss my old car as it handled fairly well with minimal mods, just lowered with Moog springs and hugged the road. This car is nothing like that was even with the low miles.
I got some inner/outer tie rod ends for it and also some KYBs that will be put on soon. I know the KYBs are budget and have saw mixed reviews. I am planning on doing Vogtland springs, Spohn strut tower bar, and founders LCAs and panhard bar. I think I will add in the strut mounts too after reading here.
I know I will be going slightly over my $1000 budget but I think the handling should be noticeable. Then my next move is wheel/tires for it, maybe 18x9 Riddler 650s. I do have to get my temp gauge replaced on it as I did the sensor and no luck so thinking its the gauge. Car has GU6 10 bolt non posi rear with drum brakes which is a bummer. Also doing the brake master cylinder on it as my brakes are really soft.
My last Iroc had a disc brake posi. Body and interior are in very nice shape and the car is not a daily driver for me so I can do stuff here and there. Bought it like 6 or 7 months ago and only drove it a handful of times around the block. I want to get these things done and enjoy it a bit more then I have.
Beautiful car!!!!. I must say that car looks great the way it stands right now. A perfect untouched specimen. I must warn you that you will regret the ride value of using Vogtland spring and KYB's, The car will handle much better leaving the springs you have and putting Koni Yellows on it. No trying to be an *** in preaching this but can tell you directly from major experience with these cars the Koni package would be far better happiness in the end without anything else. TO each their own, just giving free advice. That car is in too good of shape to need shiney tubular parts under it just for posterity. Im telling ya, Id put just konis on my car before I put KYB's and all the tubular parts someone would give me for free. Great shocks are expensive for a reason- they control the chassis.
Last edited by SlickTrackGod; 04-12-2017 at 08:09 AM.
In agreement with SlickTrackGod on this one. Skip everything but the steering components and put Koni's. upper strut mounts, and subframe connectors on it. These will do far more for the handling then the other items you listed. Those can always be done later.
Before you select a wheel size, check tire availability to make sure you can get a suitable tire without too much difficulty. We keep a spare set of 17x9 wheels for the car just because tires are easier to get than the 315/30/18's that go on the 18x10.5 wheels.
I spent a little over $800 rebuilding the entire front and rear suspension and that was using NAPA OESpectrum cheap shocks. I did replace all of the rubber swaybar bushings with poly, but that was the only upgrade from stock.
Coca-Cola of course (note the shirts in the pic above and my avatar)
Ryan over at UMI sells standard replacement tubular arms for $90 if that's all you want to do is keep OEM geometry and replace worn parts (not caring about being vintage)
Maybe I went to the wrong site, but I could not find those. (umiperformance.com) Looking for something better than stock. What he had for the 82-92 F-body was $469+
I'd get some Tokico blue HP shocks and struts, new strut tower mounts, a wonderbar, front and rear energy suspension polyurethane sway bar bushings, 1LE front and rear end links and some nice subframe connectors. Also an energy suspension polyurethane torque arm bushing. That list plus a large size Big Mac combo meal at McDonald's would be a lot of bang to your suspension for $1000
Maybe I went to the wrong site, but I could not find those. (umiperformance.com) Looking for something better than stock. What he had for the 82-92 F-body was $469+
We are refering to the rear "Lower Control Arms" or LCA's of a 3rd gen. The ones you were looking at are Front "A-arms"
Well I have done some suspension stuff to the car on a budget. Tie rod ends, MOOG springs front and rear cut a coil on front and coil and a half on rear. It got KYB shocks and struts. Got a QA1 strut tower brace. I picked up Founders adjustable panhard bar.
This stuff above is all installed besides the Founders LCARBs and the LCAs from them as I am waiting on the 3 piece poly bushings which were not in the box with the rest of the parts. I might pick up the Founders solid mounts next and I am looking into Spohn SFCs for it too. I will have to add up the parts list but I am probably a little bit over the $1000 mark.
I also purchased some 18x10.5 inch wheels and am looking at finding some affordable 285-38-18 tires and also pick up the correct wheel spacers/adapters. I also am picking up a posi disc rear as I have a open drum rear in it now.
I was debating on a 4 or 6 point roll bar in the car but I think it might be a bit of overkill. If I ever do a motor swap then maybe I will do that then. Here are some new pictures of the car and when I get the wheels on it I will post pictures.
Last edited by fast lenny; 09-11-2017 at 01:58 AM.
Great discussion, I'm looking to do some suspension upgrades as well to my 85 IROC that has been sitting for over 15 years. Front passenger side has a knock when I drive slow and lift/push the fender. So I I'm thinking to take care of the steering gear leaks, and struts. Was curious as to which to buy, so I search here and found this thread. Was contemplating Tokico HB4001 HP, are they adjustable?
SlickTrackGod nailed it with the idea of Koni, solid bearing strut mounts, and a slurpee (though I would get a margarita instead of a slurpee)
You want to do the solid bearing strut mounts at the same time as the front struts, because the stock dust boot that covers the struts DO NOT fit with aftermarket solid bearing mounts. I learned that one the hard way. Everybody (me included) who replaces the front struts without replacing the strut mounts, puts that dust cover back on before tightening everything down. And absolutely get the solid bearing mounts before you go with a strut tower brace. Putting a strut tower brace on a car with stock strut mounts is like connecting two pieces of jello with a toothpick. I also prefer the strut mounts because they take up no room under the hood, while a strut tower brace gets in the way of stuff.
I have just about all the suspension stuff done to my car. But I'm no millionaire. It took me years to do everything. I started with Koni rear shocks and rear springs. It took me another 9 months before I put the Koni front struts in (since they cost more than the rear struts). The rear springs fall out when you take the rear shocks off, so might as well do them at the time. I went with stock Moog rear springs since I actually wanted to raise the car up a bit. Way too many steep driveways and parking lots in flood prone Houston. And I'm tired of scraping.
About a year later, I did front Moog springs and Global West Del-A-Lum A-arm bearings. I noticed no increase in ride stiffness, but things did feel tighter afterwards. The springs raised one end up 1.7 inches and lowered the other side half an inch. Go figure.... But the end result was that the front end was level. Moog on front and rear gave me 27" height on the front and 28.5" height on the rear. A very almost imperceptible rake to the car.
I waited to do SFC until after the springs were in on all corners. Because what's the point of putting SFC on a car with odd heights? I can not stress enough that lowering springs are not the handling benefit that people think they are. The struts/shocks are what do 80% of the handling performance gain. Spend the money there and do nothing else.
LCA and PHB were very minor in terms of performance gain. The PHB helps keep the rear end stable during high speed cornering (no hopping or skipping) And the LCA really shine when doing a U-turn and spinning the back tires. Makes the car more controllable and faster to re-gain composure.
The last thing that I did was put greasable poly-graphite sway bar mounts on the car. Top-down solutions sells them. The poly-graphite was preferred to me because a) they're black and b) the red polyurethane are said to squeak more than the black poly-graphite.
SFC don't really do much at all in terms of handling. But they make a world's difference in feel. Driving the car diagonally up a steep hill for example. Watching both tires come off the ground when you jack up the car. It's a tighter feel when driving straight down the road. Like all four corners are closer to the center of the car.
Being a GTA, I have the 36/24 sway bars. I should get a 22 mm bar for the back since I have SFC. There is a 60 mph corner on my highway drive home that is banked the wrong way. If I take it at 75 mph, the car will shift weight from the inside rear tire to the front outside tire......With no SFC, the front twists more than the back. The back stays level.......With SFC connecting the front and rear of the car, the rear of the car pulls up on the inside rear tire during cornering and shifts that weight to the front outer tire. Going to a slightly smaller rear sway bar would lessen the rear inside tire pulling up. I was scratching my head wondering why this back to front transition was happening. SlickTrackGod explained why the sway bar do that and why going to a smaller bar with SFC is a good idea. This is getting beyond the topic at hand. But needless to say, changing sway bars is one of the last steps I would do. I can live with the 36/24 combo.
I love coming in here and seeing things very informative and very well written. Great response Gordon (Reid)- nothing better then real world trial and error responses for others to take advice and learn the easy way.
With 51K on it, I suggest you start with a new centerlink, idler arm, and tie rod ends. Burn out the old rubber bushings from your lower control arms and press in some polyurethane bushings. Check the lower ball joints and replace them if there is any wear. Get the basic suspension up to snuff. That will take you through a few hundred dollars. Then, make sure that your power steering gear is not leaking and that the rag joint is not oil soaked and mushy. Pull out the steering box and go through the service manual and make sure that it's adjusted to factory preloads. That will tighten up your steering and won't cost you a lot of money.
Then you 'll be ready for upgrading your suspension.
I've been studying my third-gen suspension for 27 years, and gone through a lot of different setups. Some of the very LAST things I think you will want to replace are the strut tower bushings, or adding a strut tower brace. Those are for the last 1% of suspension performance and won't do you any good if you have a loose steering gear or loose centerlink. Once you have a good foundation, then you can add some good struts and rear shocks- such as the Koni Sport, or Bilstein, or KYB. KYB's work well on a budget.
Don't forget your front-end alignment! -1 to -2 degree negative camber (if you can even get that much), 5 degrees castor, and a little bit of toe-in. The performance alignments are found elsewhere on this website.
For the rear of the car, you can do the same as the front, and put in high durometer rubber bushings into your lower control arms and weld in a strip of steel in the bottom to box them in. Or, you can buy some used LCA's from someone on the board - preferrably ones with poly bushings and not spherical bearings. I have spherical bearings and they transmit a lot of road noise into your car. Then, when they finally loosen up, you get a lot of banging and clunking. For a race car, it's great, but for a street car, you can't beat poly bushings.
Next, are the weld-in subframe connectors. When I added subframe connectors to my car, it was noticeable. (I added them in 1999).
I suspect that once you get to that point, you will probably have used up your $1000 but it'll be one heck of a fun ride.
This is great info. Bushings, struts & shocks, and basically replacing any worn maintenance items will do far more than simply throwing some drop springs on the car and some tubular components. Take it from someone who sort of learned the hard way (don't we all!) that the suspension geometry on these cars does not like to be lowered without also addressing the other areas that dropping the ride height affects. You could end up with a car that performs worse than stock, and just looks pretty with a low stance
About a year ago I picked up my silver Iroc. Its an 85 and has 52k on it. It was in good shape but needed some maintenance done on it and I am big on a car handling so the suspension needed some help. My buddy Pete has done most of the work on it. We did Moog suspension components along with Moog springs chopped down. Replaced the trunk motor on it as that was not working properly.
I did skimp and got KYBs Excel G but probably will go to Konis down the road as it's the only thing I regretted doing but still rides well. Replaced the rear non posi drum with a disc posi rear from an 89 I got from a member on here. Did a TA performance rear end cover that we installed today. Founders LCARBs and LCA's, Adj. Panhard bar, and a QA1 strut tower brace.
The cost for these suspension items along with the rear was just around a $1300 and under a grand if we don't count the rear end and cover. I am going to do SFCs soon and probably solid strut mounts. After that it will be brakes.
Got these wheels and tires just on and its a nice car to cruise and handles very well compared to when I got it. This 18x10.5 square set up with 285 35 18s all the way around cost more then the money I put into the suspension but has helped quite a bit in the handling department.
It is funny because I was going through receipts and thinking of that plus the cost of the car and I am creeping quickly towards the 10k mark which can buy some nice already built thirdgens but what is the fun in that. The journey of the build and improving a good candidate plus making it your own. I thought about keeping the car totally stock but I really want to enjoy this car.
When the cars suspensions is totally done and brakes I will probably do an LS swap. Got my eyes on a donor car currently that is an 4th gen SS and if so I can utilize the brakes from it among other things. Now enough talking and here are some update pics along with prices on what I have put into it besides some odds and ends like the rebuilt trunk motor.
KYBs - $160
Founders Parts - $248
Moog Suspension Parts - $250
Rear End - $250
QA1 STB - $170
TA Performance Cover - $140
Wheels and Tires - $1500
04-10-2017, 10:30 PM
(note the shirts in the pic above and my avatar)
