Ok, here is the deal: right now I have a 305 TBI in my 89 RS. I'm thinking about picking up a 383 stroker (last dyno'ed at around 400 hp) or building a beefy 350 and I'm not sure which one I should go with and if I should keep it a TBI or go to TPI. Any suggestions? Also, what other parts might I need when I go to a bigger engine?

either induction system will require custom chips

You are going to get alot of drivel but if you are dead set on making power with a stock induction system and you dont mind swapping systems then TPI will be beter suited to a 383 . You shouldnt really use either stock system on a built engine but the stock TPI is the lesser of two evils.

Yeah just chuck a perfectly good fuel injection system and throw in another one like it is a piece of cake to do. I have heard this and that all the time about people just chucking TBI like it is pure junk, and I am sick of hearing this.
People with TBI systems DO have a very efficient fuel system. Why not just spend the extra money and have to change EVERYTHING in order for it to work? Why not just call it a "project car" and halfway through it, just end up getting rid of it because you couldn't finish it?
I'm really fed up with the suggestions of "going to CARB or going to TPI" from a TBI system.
GROW UP. I know these suggestions are valid for their own reasons, but please think about what you are suggesting to people when you tell them to change their systems altogether.
They wind up with cars that run WORSE than before they did anything to them!
I really think this bandwagon of bologna has to end.
It's YOUR car. Remember when you change everything over it will end up costing you a hell of a lot more $$$ to change it over to a different induction system... and now they are making fantastic aftermarket products for TBI.
Have these people DONE these projects? I would say 99% of them HAVE NOT. Why? Because they have the other form of induction in their automobiles already, and think theirs is the best.
That is why I am telling people to grow up, and wise up.
Look at all options before you decide to tear out a perfectly good fuel system because so-and-so has another fuel system.
My .02
Yank it! Yeah go for it, and why not ruin what already works!?!?
Not everyone has 2 years (or more) to spend on swapping a motor out! Give me a break! All those comments about changing fuel systems out just for a freaking motor swap! DUH!
Knock it off!

i agree, but you are acting like it is impossible. swapping to tpi will be difficult and expensive. but everybody knows my opinion, look in my sig.

I didn't say it was impossible. I said it was expensive, and time consuming. It will end up costing you more in the long run. Most people that end up doing this TRASH their cars, and they end up running like crap. Be forewarned.

tbi is a great system from a reliability stand point. Those injectors are die hard german made injecors and they probably could last forever and the rest of the system has very few parts to go bad. Its also a very user freindly system. However, it doesnt seem to lend itslef to producing power in the stock form. It was never made to. It was intended to be used on pick up motors that dont need alot of horsepower. I've been doing some research and it looks like youll need to burn a good chip and get a new holly 670 CFM or 454 tbi and a good intake to really start seeing any good returns formt he system. Another thing to keep in mind is no high reving motors. TBI isnt the greatest flowing induction system so probably getting a good torque motor that doesnt rev to all hell would be the best option. Im in the same boat as you are. Im looking to get a 350 to replace the 305 and ill probably have to do the same stuff.

Dude grow up. I have done a swap From TBI to Carb on my car and have done a swap from TBI to TPI on a freinds car , and both times it was worth it ..BIG TIME. There are also several people that I know online and off that have swapped and not one of them regrets it. And I dont know anyone that has actually had their car run worse after switching from TBI to TPI , that is a load of crap.

Two years? If it takes you two years to do anything to your car then I can see why talk of induction swaps get you nervous. The stock TBI system is not a high perfromance system and it wasnt meant to be , is it reliable ? yes thats about it , It doesnt Flow like a carb or build torque like a TPI. It amazes me how easily some of you TBI people get your feelings hurt when someone suggests that there are better systems out there. But face it, there are.

How foolish of me to suggest that someone putting a 383 in their car would be better off with another induction system.


Bandwagon of Balogna huh? I guess everyone that has done the swap has made a mistake and would be better off sticking with an induction system just because it came stock on thier cars. Maybe the trend should be people dumping Carbs and Port fuel injection systems and picking up all of the TBI systems people have lying aroung in their garages.
All hail the mighty TBI :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

You're not even worth responding to, to be honest. I am sure those cars have everything working perfectly too. Like all the gauges, A/C plus everything else.
You telling me to grow up when you have all the equipment to do the swap effectively, never the less, the MONEY.
I am sure you can get on your high horse and flame all you want about how easy and simple it was too.
I am sure you have done your TBI research before you did that crap to the cars too.
:hail:
I really am disgusted with people doing the wrong things because someone "suggested" they do it.

And your drivel about it costing more money? What mod doesnt?Tell me was the hood you have on your car cheaper than leaving the stock one on? Did you save money by swapping from the stock engine? Leaving everything stock would be cheaper than modifying anything , wouldnt it? Its not always about money , is it?

Actually , yep everything does work(except the AC on my car but that was removed when I was still CFI , I live in Cali and have TTOPS) . And Swapping from TBI to a Carb is simple. Tpi is more involed and labor intensive but it isnt impossible and it is worth it.

Research , yeah I did enogh research to know that I wanted an induction system that would work with ANY cam I want to run , I can tune it the way I want to and for different engines heads etc.
but that isnt the point. He asked a question and I stated my opinion.
And I guess that you have a bunch of research that you can provide me and everyone else that shows that TBI is the equal to TPI and Carbs in terms of performance right?

Lets analize this:
First, there was NOTHING that needed to be done with the fuel system in the fist place. I did change the motor entirely, for the L03 is not exactly a "performance" engine.
The intake manifold and TBI unit also needed to be changed to compensate for the drastic change.
The hood was a clearance issue, and I could have got away with cutting out the middle of it and putting a cowl or something there.
Why not? Because I don't want my car to look like a hack job.
I had the funds for the hood.
What makes me so angry is the fact that there are BONEHEADS out there jumping on the bandwagon saying that TBI is NOT a performance orientated system.
It can be. With all your "swaps" being so easy to do, how is it that EVERY system that has been changed from TBI to TPI (or Carb for that matter) doesn't seem to make the car any better than it was in the first place?
I find that swapping in another L03 for a dead L03 is extremely STUPID just as anyone else would. But to go to another level, and completely ruin a good fuel system is another.
There are compatible systems out there. I have the feeling that everyone has to look at the big picture. There are things going on NOW that are making you guys nervous, because maybe we have something that CAN and DOES work well, without having to make EXTREME changes that cost more and more money.
There are hundreds of examples of cars being done that were NEVER done because people give up. I am sure you know that as well as I do. (This being the swaps being made to another type of system... I am sure you know this. I'm no MORON.)
What I am saying is don't TRASH your car because someone went to another type of system and swears by it.

Yeah, you got the right idea!

I havent seen one person yet post about how they switched from TBI to tpi and the car runs the same or worse. And the ones that I have dealt with in person have seen substatiol gains in power.

As for being nervous , why? What induction system doesnt work? It just depends on what you want to do with it.


And since when do bandwagons last 15 years?

........... And what did you have to begin with? Understand rubberband?

What I am saying isn't anything spectacular. What I am saying is YOU wouldn't want to change your system to another because someone said it was better, right?

Why are you feeding the fire? You have a system that works for you. We have a system that can work for us.

It can be. With all your "swaps" being so easy to do, how is it that EVERY system that has been changed from TBI to TPI (or Carb for that matter) doesn't seem to make the car any better than it was in the first place?


Go to the Carb or TPI boards and ask the people that switched from TBI to either if their cars ran better. afterwards. You made the statement now back it up.

cause it is

DOH! Times are changing and for the better.
It's about time everyone woke up, and got off the pot.

AND I WILL BACK IT UP to the HUNDREDS of FAILURES that others have done. There are hundreds of "project" cars that have NEVER been completed at all. You don't see them coming back do you?

I can! I have it. You just seem to be pressing an issue that needs not be prejudiced against. I will tell you I have tremendous gains from my system and it is definitely not a stock setup. And mine is just an "exception" to the rule?

You guys just don't get it.

the differences that people see when they switch to tpi or carb are the same as the gains tht are commonly seen from doing the ultimate tbi mods and an edelbrock intake, because you are opening up the stock breathing on the car.
the tbi intake is not the worst ever, but it is certainly no jewel. the stock tpi intake contains a greater volume and a longer runner length, the plus side is that this lends itself to better breathing in stock form than the tbi intake, the down side is that were as wet flow systems liek tbi and carb tend to make longer flatter torque curves, port injected systems tend to be very peaky unless you tune the **** outof them. the longer runners create such a high velocity that you will most likely see a higher peak torque number, but the area under the curve will be very similar.
there is a similar truth when people switch to carbs, they move to an aftermarket intake that is gonna out flow a stock intake( duh!) and a little bigger carb(most guys seem to find happiness with 600 vacuum secondary carbs) that equals more airflow.
personally i am not a big fan of carb because i view it as a compromise system. you only basically have two fuel positions(primary and secondary jets) and an accelerator pump. yes it can easily make tons of power, but so can the injection system you already have just as easily. tpi is a nice system, and i have said on any number of occasions that you need port injection to go for absolute maximum hp, but the parts for it are so f'ing expensive. the mods that add up to a 50-60 hp gain for tbi can barely pay for a used aftermarket tpi intake.
everybody calm down, what is the best induction system really boils down to personal opinion. it is my opinion that is is always easiest and most economical to work with whatever system your car comes with.

later
tim

Dude I can say that I saw Elvis playing hopscotch with Jimmy Hoffa and Tupac and you couldnt prove otherwise , so your statement means nothing. One again since you said the "every one that has switched was no better afterward" I am asking you to go to the respective boards and prove it .

i don't think the TBI vs. whatever debate will EVER die because you have die-hards on both sides of the fence

personally i could care less..i have neither hehe i just like watching the battles

Prove what? That there are people that have done it sucessfully and have gains? I know this. What I am talking about are the failures, and the people who do this blindly, and end up ruining their cars.... eventually selling them at a tremendous loss.

The failures outweigh the positive that can be done by keeping the same fuel system you had to begin with. I agree with NJ Speeder.

If TBI is such a great system to have on performance vehicles, then why are the manufacturers using MPFI or a variation of it? Dont be too stubborn to realize the room for improvement with fuel injection systems. TBI has its place, but not on a 383 in a sports car.

Actually TPI makes great torque down low and has a flat torque curve due to its long runners and it is the wet flow systems that tend to be peaky. Aftermarket systems are a different ballgame.

Statements with no basis . If you know that there are sucsess stories then why did you say "every one".

Uhhhhh... I think he wanted references to proof of the failures. Simple request after your statement, IMO.

As for cost, I swapped LG4 to TPI for the cost of a wiring harness, and I didnt really need that either I just didnt want the ugly POS that I got with the TPI. So it wasnt expensive for me. I've seen complete setups regularily go for ~250-300. I dont think thats expensive.

I dont understand all the arguing about carb-TBI-TPI... Everyone knows the LS1 is better.

Its also easiest and most economical to leave the stock wheels , interior , suspension and engine in also. But what fun is that.

LOL

This statement? I said SEEM. It will give you gains to their respective modifications.

Now, given my respective modifications, I should be around 170 HP now, correct? (This seems to be the implication with the way people talk about TBI.)

Maybe I wasn't very clear about it, I was stating what can be done.

Nope you should be at about 320-330 horses at the flywheel , you were supposed to get dynoed werent you?

Yeah I will get it dynoed, but the shop I was going to go to went out of business and the other two shops charge big $$ for a pull. I will get it dynoed now that I have no errors being thrown from my system. Just need to save up and go as soon as I can.

DTech Closes Up Shop

It sucks being out in Vegas. The shops out here charge big $$ for dyno pulls.

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of the early IL4 Iron Duke they put in the third gens.

yo don't talk **** on the iron dukes! they were great motors lol

This reminds me of all the LS1 guys that come into the Mustang forums. They come in and it seems like they are saying "you can't beat an LS1 is your Mustang because -*** built the LS1 and it was -GODs gift to pavement."

I think SOME of the TPI crowd here thinks along those lines.

It was designed for a 305! A stock TPI setup can't even feed my friends 350. Unless we spend another 2.5 million dollars to make the TPI work. But it sucks to work on anyway...

...SO WE TOOK THE TPI OFF AND PUT TBI ON.

bet you never saw THAT posted before.

same can be said about the TBI crowd, HOW DARE YOU TALK BAD ABOUT TBI to some of these guys, its like you insulted their mother...the door swings both ways...i applaud the TBI guys for trying to come up with new stuff, but the second u say "it'd be better with somethng else" they draw guns and start to shoot.

***DISCLAIMER That was not directed towards EVERY TBI person...I was making a general statement but wasn't directed at any one person so don't give me ****