ok since I bought the car Ive noticed it runs rich. at first I thought I was smelling the fuel and exhaust because the tail pipe was to far back, but Ive put a tip on so that should be taken care of.
any way if the windows are up I realy dont smell any thing and it doesnt bother me but once the windows are down for a few minutes the fumes get bad enough they make my eyes water, and I get a nasty taste in my mouth. even tonight I came home from taking my mother in law to work and my shirt even smells like fuel.
Im guessing running rich is also part of the reason the car hesitates when starting some times(only when it has sat for a good amount of time, if it was just running it starts fine).
after buying the car I dont have any money left, is there any thing cheep and easy I can try to fix this?
also so its known, the car is stock with the cat removed, and open element air filter, new accel plugs wires cap/rotor, and my ses light is not comming on.
O' I dont know if this matters, but when the car is cold and I first start it it idles at about 1000rpm's but once it has warmed up and ran awile it idles around 1500rpm's

ok I dont know if this matters, but I went out and started the car and took my air cleaner off and looked and listened to the tb wile the car was running. I dont know if what I noticed is normal or not. Im kind of wondering if my injectors may be bad. I found out the tapping sound Ive been hearing is my injectors, and I could clearly see the fuel being sprayed by them, and see the fuel on the butterflys and the walls of the tb around the butterflys. am I just stupid and this is all normal?

here is a pic of my tb. you can see where fuel has gotten around the outside of the injectors.
and before anyone laughes ther a$$ off at me know Ive never worked on or owned tbi car b4 so I dont know whats normal for them.

my car does the same thing. i also do not have a cat but i back fire when i'm taking off. someone told me that it might be not having the cat but i think i too am running rich. As to your TB, i would let the car run with the aircleaner off and loos at the injectors and see if fuel is leaking from them anywhere.. feel the top of the injector by unpluging them and see if any wet gas is there. My tb needed new o-rings but do not disaseble the injectors unless you have all of the rebuild parts because once they are subjected to air they will fall apart in your hands.. anyway thats if you have bad o-rings. \See if gas is anywhere but inside the TBI. I dont think you need to worry about the wet look around the outside of your injectors i'll take a look toorrow at mine to see if they look like that. But if your running rich i woudl say check the 02 sensor or the map. i'm sure someone else will also have some good input. remember though i'm an ameture and do all my own work so i may not be 100 percent accurate but i'm sure if i'm wrong about something someone will let you know
hope any of this works.

thanx for the reply transam. Im gona change the o2 sensor as soon as I have a few extra $$.
I did get to thinking thoe, and I need some one to tell me wether this actualy could be a possable reason for my problem.
my cars temp very rarely goes above the 100 mark on the gauge even on a nice day when it is in the 70's(I live in south texas we just had a few good days) then today it droped to the 50's(first time the running rich realy bothered me physicaly) and I noticed the gauge hardly moved from the 100 mark after being driven for almost an hr.
I did a search here in the tbi section and saw where some one else mentioned to replace the o2 sensor and a temp sensor in the block(which Im assuming is the one by the goose neck) as a first step to try and fix running rich.
now what Im wondering is if that sensor is bad and/or if the previous owner removed the thermostat could that be making the computer think the car needs to run rich like it would for start up on a cold morning?

I hope what I just asked makes sence, if not please excues me Ive been drinking so I feel kinda like this guy :lala:

i replaced my cts as well but my car still backfires. i know i'm running rich and when i have a nice day..( i live in NJ and it has been -10 with the wind chill lately) i'm going to replace my o2 sensor as well as check the voltages on my map. but it cant hurt to change your cts... If you dont know if you have a stat i would check though... 50 is way to cold and i would guess thats a wrong reading.. you may want to buy the electrical temperature guage because the ones in the car are not evry accurate to begin with even if all your switches work properly. this way you can make sure your car is really running at 50 degrees. if you buy the electrical guage and it says your car is running normal temp then you will need a new guage sensor which is plugged under the block on the driver side if you have the L03 again good luck

ok I changed the temp sensor by the thermostat, I put a 160 degree thermostat in(previous owner removed it and didnt put one back in) and I changed the o2 sensor which the old one was all black and sooty.
my cars temp acts normal now but Im still running rich. Im getting steam and water from my exhause and the water is enough to make a puddle under the tail pipe when I rev the engine up(if the cars idiling very little steam/water,rev it up lots of steam and water), but I dont think its from a blown head or intake gasket because I dont seem to be loosing any coolant. so Im guessing its a symptom from running rich.
what else can I try to remedy this?

Try disconnecting the battery for a minute or so to reset the ecm, then drive it for at least 20 miles. After the engine is warmed up drive it like you stole it for a little while. You might also want to check the sparkplugs, they may be as black as the o2 sensors was. Hope you get it all straightened out.

Steve

Since the previous owner was obviously an idiot (no thermo) you should check what else he may have done. Check to see if the ECM chip is stock. If not find the correct chip.

Does the SES light work at all? At key on it should come on, blink off, then come on again until the engine is running. If not he may have removed the bulb.

What was done with the IAT sensor once the open element was put on? Is it at least still connected?

Check the fuel pressure. Should be between 9 and 13 PSI.

Get a scan tool on the ALDL line and see what he ECM is telling you.

A 160 thermo is still a bit on the low side. I would go with a least a 180 and a 195 would actually be better. (Does you idle float high?)

RBob.

Hi Dragons91RS, cool to see someone else from the rgv here on the boards. I have a 91 rs and it had the exact same problem. I replaced the cts, thermostat, and the O2 sensors (you know that there's 2 right? One on the left mainifold and one on the right). Both of mine were replaced and I did a bunch of other stuff (rotor, dist cap, plugs, wires, plus an all new exhaust) and the problem seemed to go away. Good luck!!

Where in the rgv are ya?

O' The previous owner was more of an idiot than you think. wires are cut under the dash, nothing electrical in the interior of the car works except the windows and gauges(even then the fuel gauge is stuck on full) plus numerous other things they did.

the SES light does work, and the AIT sensor is pluged in, Ive got it ziptied up back at the firewall.
how do I check the fuel pressure?

Hey Johnny Camaro I live in Los Fresnos. having 2 o2 sensors I didnt know but should have realised all the other stuff you did Ive done.

To check the fuel pressure you'll need to tap into the pressure line feeding the TBI. Search this board and there will be several posts that go into how to do this. It is straight forward.

Should only be one O2 sensor on a '91 TBI RS.

RBob.

Unless someone modified my car before I bought it, I have 2 O2 sensors. One on each side. The drivers side is closer to the manifold than the passenger side but they are both in the 'y' pipe. I have not done anything in front of the cat so I can only assume that it was built this way. I know my car was built late in the production schedule. If it were'nt so nasty outside I would run out and shoot a couple of pics.

I really don't doubt that you have two O2 sensors. It is fact that factory stock only has one. Even the ECM only has one O2 input and sensor amp. This is true for all 3rd gens (if they had any at all).

It is possible that another bung has been welded in or that the Y pipe is not the correct one. Once it warms up outside check to see where the two O2 sensor wires go. It may help out with why there are two sensors. Is there an O2 AFR gauge in the car? If the two O2 sesor wires are connected together and then fed to the ECM it will be another case of POS (previous owner syndrome, credit to Vader for that term I believe.).

RBob.

Your makin' me wanna go out there and brave the elements just to see. I would sure **** me off if I bought 2 O2 sensors for no reason!

I'll see what I can do and get back with you all asap.

I could only spot the one on mine, and my haynes manual only mentions one.

OK...even though it was raining I went out to find out what was going on. The drivers side O2 sensor has a wire that runs toward the front of the block. The passenger side O2 sensor runs toward the rear of the block. The O2 sensor on the passenger side is located on the back side fo the y pipe (pointing toward the trans). The driver side is just under the air tubes and points toward the front of the engine.

So, which one belongs here and which one is the hack?

the only one I spotted was the one on the drivers side that is easy to get to. I'll look/feel tomarow for one on the pas side.

i dont think you guys are looking at an o2 sensor... try this... unplug the wire on the drivers side that you think is an o2 sensor... then look at your temp guage? see if it is giving a reading... if it doesnt then you are looking at the temp sender! which only tells your guage what temp your running at.. i could be wrong though

what Im looking at and talking about is an o2 sensor. I just changed it on friday.
here is a pic of the one I just took out. the new one is bigger(the part where the silver piece is) for some reason thoe

well thats an o2 sensor all right.. i've never heard of one on the driver side then again i am an ameture

I didnt mind it being where it was. it just made it easy to change lol