Ok. Now that i had(got) to drive the L03 around for 2 years i've had enough of the eco v8.

This winter i got big plans for the engine. First off, it's comming out and being disassembled. I'm gonna have the block glassbead blasted. I think i'm gonna have the block bored to the next oversize. Anyhow i'm gonna have 4-bolt mains machined in. Did you guys use regular 4-bolt "clamps" or did you have to get ones that were desinged for the conversion???

the crank i'm gonna use is the eagle ESP Cast Steel, SBC 400 Ext.Bal., 2-Pc.Rr.Seal, 3.75 Str. I know i have to do some clearing on the block to get that thing spining. The counter weights are gonna be machined off. Not everybit but mostly. Any problems with this idea???? Hope this crank can take about 600hp (a friend has one on a blown 383 tpi )

For rods i'm gonna use Scat Forged 4340 I-Beam Rods 5,7". I got a good deal on them. Only 50$ more that Eagle's "softer" ones. 50$ less than the eagle 4340 rods. Should take about 700hp. (seen it)

As for pistons, Wiseco had been a very good and reliable for "race" engines.(a frinds dad builds 1.6 liter boxer engines for vw bug races. 170hp isn't bad for a 1.6l pushrod boxer, the car weighs about 1000-1400lbs, wiseco pistons used) Any other suggestions for the pistons??? must be around 500-1000$ the whole set.

Crane's blue race 1,6 RRs are comming on the 416 heads that have been ported, polished, ect. With 1,94" and 1.6" valves. Would 2.02" intake valves fit in the bores? how about 1.94" intake and 1.7" exhaust? Has anybody tried?? would make sence because the sbc is exhaust cripled.

I'm going with a l98 cam since i can get one cheap in good condition. (like the heads and headers ) good, bad?? Cars a daily driver. I'd still like for it to rev around 6k.

Stock ported intake is gonna be used with a 2" tbi (454)
What size of injectors should i use? 85#s?

Edelbrock tes headers and a 3" flowmaster stainless steel exhaust should be enough to get the gases out?? Is it?

If i get a turbocharger i'm gonna have it converted to a belt drive. but thats a whole new story...If i go with the blower then cr is gonna be around 7.5-8:1 and about 1bar of boost is gonna be used.

My goal is to build a reliable engine. This is the basic idea. How do ya like it? Atleast its unique.

-Crisis-

P.s. Look at my location before you flame me about my language and prices.
:lala: :lala:

 

unless you are serious about boost, those parts of OVERKILL.

also, why spend all the money on a 305 block? spend an extra $200 bucks (note: you will get this money back here in a min.) you will be paying for the same machine work either way. a good set of forged slugs is going to be CHEAPER for a 350, as they are a pretty standard piston, getting some good inverted dome pistons for a 305+overbore is going to be a custome set. i like wiseco, or JE for pistons, others have good luck with SRP, TRW, ect.

as for heads/cam/ect why bother with stock castings, and stock cams, you just lined up 3k in a shortblock, why skimp here? you would be happier in the end, with less in the shortblock, and then spend the money for soem AFR heads, and a good performance cam (if we are talking power adders, get a good SC/Turbo cam)

as for TBI, how do you plan to fuel the engine under boost? i know it sounds like a great idea, but getting good fuel distrobution from a wet flow system like TBI under boost is not as easy as it sounds. that is not say that it can't be done, but again, easier to do with a MPFI system.

my best advice for you, is to pick the end results you want. if you are going turbo/supercharged. build everything for that. if you are going NA, build it for that. pick a power level you want, and work to achive that. building a 7.5:1 motor, and not putting a SC or turbo on it, is going to really suck. you will hate it. but if you build a 10:1 motor, that is goign to limit you in the power adder addition later on. unfortinitly this is a game of trade off's. you should really look at your budget, look at the cars use, and look at what power levels you really want to achive. price the parts it takes to get there (include a new tranny, new rear end, ect.) then add 50% more to that number, because in reality, it always costs more and **** happens.

 

How about the valves? why does chevy uso so small exhaust valves?? if you can fit 2.02" intake and 1.6" exhaust valves why not just use 1.94" intake and 1.7" exhasut valves? in my oppinion they would fit. I would suspect that the advantage of 2.02" intake valve disappears b/c of the small exhast valve.

The reason for using overkill parts down under is that i can allways build up a 383. I'm not builing a 350 b/c you see them every day. the block will cost around 300-400$ over here. And heads exspesialy. 2000$ a pair

I allready have a set of 416's sitting on my floor.. why not use them? i've allready ported them to the max. got the heads for allmost noting.

 

the problem with larger exaust valves is due to the possitioning of them, the center of the valve cannot be moved (well at least practicly) and there is only so much room between the centerpoint of the exaust valve, and the cyl. wall.

also, i still don't see why you want a forged crank ect. on a 305. if you plan to run a supercharger or turbo, then run it. but you need a lower compresion ratio. if you don't plan to run it, you don't need the forged parts. it does NO good to build a motor for a turbo and not run one, you will HATE driving a motor that is under 9:1 compresion. you will never be happy.

i am also willing to bet money that you make up the price of a 350 core on the price diffrence in the pistons. if you are really looking for forged pistons options for a 305 a very limited at best. you are likely looking at a custom piston. $500 worth of buying a block will be made up in the fact that you can can over the counter forged pistons on all standerd overbore sized for a 350.

i just don't see the point in spending that kind of money on a 305, when you can build a 350 for the same money or less. and make more power.

 

I'd have to agree with Dewey-
Sinking a lot of cash into a 305 for machine work is one thing, but then fighting the uphill battle of finding good low cost parts for a 305 (as opposed to a 350) puts it out of reason for me.

The fact that the 350 is so common is what makes it worth building in terms of costs.

Crisis-
If AFR heads are too expensive (which they are) have you considered vortec heads and corresponding intake manifold?

Whatever your choice, good luck with the buildup-
S-D

 

I think i'm gonna go with a 350 or a 400 sb....
would i have to use retro-fit lifters with the 400 block?

350 post 86 blocks are rare over here... a pre 86 would be easyer to come by. What are the advantages of the newer block?

Any way i'm getting the forged bottom end.. i'll just make a 383... the crankshaft costs only 200$ so its a steal. And would be balanced better than the stock one.. it's only 500$ for the whole botton end.

the L03 would be a nice mild engine the the heads, headers and a l98 cam.. might as well build it up and just sell it. (with stock the stock bottom and w/o headers) Over here people would really pay for a ~250hp lil 305...

Is 1 5/8" primeries enough for a mild 350? at what point would they give up? Is the slp y-pipe better than the edelbrock version?

If we recap... heads ~200$ complete, headers 50$ used but glassbead blasted soon to be painted, l98 cam in perfect condition 80$... thats good money for the performance gain...

All i need now is the injectors and i could then mayby put the engine aside for the moment and put it in a lighter project. Drive it for a while next summer...

How much can a stock piston be machined down? all they need is nice valve pockets and a flat surfice... take some off the bottom end for lightness. then just make each one the same weight..
(labor is free.. i can do it my self.) thats why i think i'm gonna make all of my blocks 4-bolt.

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Oh jeah... i forgot.. i've got everything set-up for more power. all i need to do anymore i get shift corrector kit and do a few changes to the th700... the b&w is on good condition and won't brake... 245's are gonna slip before the rear gives up.

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one more thing... i'm not building the engine for boot unless it's not used.. the forged botton is so i can sleep at night thinking about the engine... not having to worry about the bottum end.

 

double...

 

Ok, there is a whole lot to cover here, i'm goona give all this my best shot, unfortinatly i am not a machinest so i won't be able to answer a couple of them.

you have to use retro-fit lifters if you plan to go with a roller carm. also remeber that as the cubes go up, you need a larger cam to get the same powerband.

the only diffrence between the older blocks and new blocks, is the new blocks have the bosses for attaching the spidder need to retain the roller lifters, it uses a one piece main seals, and the cam retention on the front of the block is a little diffrent. if you plan on using a roller cam, using a 87+ block is going to make that cheaper. you can still do it with a 86- block, but you need to get the correct cam retention peices, and aftermarket retro lifters.

383 is the way to go, the parts are usualy right around the same cost, but you get the extra cubes.

your lucky, i wouldnt' pay much at all for a lo3 of any sort.

typicaly yes, on most mild 350's, 1 5/8 is going to work out better than 1 3/4. i personaly have never like the edelbrock design, for headers or y-pipe, but it is better than stock. if you get them cheap go for it, and upgrade to hooker or SLP later.

not bad at all, do remeber there is more money than that involved in this project. you need fluids, gaskets, and lots of misc. stuff.

the l98 cam really is a pretty good cam for a 305, i dyno'd with a friend who has a l98 cam in his LB9, he put down some really good numbers, the only mod he had was his long-tube headers and X-pipe duals. he actualy put down as much HP as the 89 L98 car that was there.

not sure about this, balancing i understand the concept, couldn't do it myself, and not sure what problems you might run into doing this. but engine balance is critical when you are talking about true performance engines.

thats great, you are well ahead of the game. right now i am still workign on finishing my 'platform' and i have more money into that than most people have into new engines. it gets frustrating at times. but in the end building the car to take the power first is the right way to do this. you will be much happier with the end result (this is directed at everyone!)

i understand that to a point. but there you only need to build the bottom end to handle what you are going to throw at it. for your build-up forged H-beam rods would be overkill. if you have the money to do all forged, go for it. the peace of mind will be nice. and if you ever get bored you can toss on a 200 shot of the giggly-go

it sounds like you are heading in the right direction. i would suggest you sit down, come up with a power goal, and a budget. work from there. doign lots of research and planning before buying parts and starting a project will pay off in the end. and make the whole project go much faster and smoother.

good luck! and keep us up to date on your progress

 

I allready do have a budget.. its not big so i'm really gonna haveto think what i need and what i don't (about 220-300$ a mounth up untill next summer. then i'll run out of dough )

I'd love to use n2o but i'd bet the police around here would give me a spanking. It was outlawed in the 80's
you can use it on the track but it has to be unarmed while driving in a public place. And we have a law about transporting flamable subtances.. so no go

the scats were i-beam rods =) (we have a drag-class that requires the engine to be built up with "factory" parts. meaning you can use aftermarket parts but they have to be the same desing-type as the factorys. thus i-beam)

the only problem this l03 is the heads and cam... i got "better" ones that i'll swap in and see how much i can get for the packge. 500$ is a base price for a l03 around here.. tpi's go for around 2000$ and lt1's around 3000$ w/ trans.. the demand is so big and allmost nobody imports them.

hope i can find a newer block.. Does somebody sell "new" blocks over there? I mean busnisess i could order form?
How much should a new 1 gen 350 block cost?

 

there are plenty of companies you can buy new GM blocks from, i beleive they typicaly run about $500, you can also get aftermarket blocks, but those are quite a bit more money (read: 2k range)

 

I've made some decissions...

I'm not letting go of the 305. Can't afford it this winter.
I'm gonna use the frogerd crank and i-rods just for lightness.. I can use them later on in another engine or project.

(you guys are gonna kill me) But i think i'm gonna go with a lt1 intake for the 330cid (3.742 * 3.75) and a ecu from a friends tpi.. just need to make a nice chip

If i run into a (bigger) budget problem then i'm sticking with the original plan of using the 454 tbi..

The heads i have are enough for me.. i'm never gonna make the 305/330 into a performance machine. i just want a good daily driver out of it. I'm gonna try and get the firebird into the 13's to mid 14's.. thats the goal.. not purely from the engine perspective.

I'm gonna do a lot of work on the car. For example the doors weigh way too much. I'm gonna gut them and make a tubular frames. atleast 20lb per door of weight loss. I'm thinking of loosing the back seats to. Re-alocating the battery to the trunk and thouwing out the all the emission and ac ( a good 50 pounds there too).. aluminum radiotor (gonna need that just for the cooling) thats gonna take some off to.aluminum water pump for the same reason. If i went with the aluminum heads i could get about 30lbs weight loss from them too (we weighed the aluminum heads at 14kgs, the cast iron ones are 22kgs).. Anyhow i got a firebird formula so i don't need to worry about gfx's causing weight. lets see what else..Lca's and sfc's (damn about 50lbs more ) i know a couple of good welders.. gonna try and remove as much as i can of the cast parts and replace them with tubular counter parts.. for exaple the cross-brace under the engine. Dont remember the exact name right niw

if 4thgen lt1's run 13's with 270hp (is that fw or rw?) why can't i with around 300fwhp?? Just need to pick a cam that makes peak hp at around 5500-6000rpm and very stiff valve springs, and tough and light retainers to compliment them. the 1.6 rr's or 1.5rr's are coming anyway. depends on the cam. i'm gonna have cloce to 10:1 cr with these heads (milled) and original pistons. Is that too much for a cast iron heads?

people say that under squre engines don't rev... i don't know about that but i do know for a fact that motorcycle engines rev nicely cause there light.. and usualy have more stroke than bore..

Input please... and no.. i'm not dropping the 305.. and yes.. i'm not gonna buy anything more that fits only the 305. from now on i'm getting everything that i can re-use on a 350 or 400. (exept new piston rings )

 

Dewey: you said you've got more money on the platform that meny have put in their engines... i've only got about 3k$ in mine. prices are a bit higher that yours but anyways... just wanted to point out.

I'm one of those people you see getting the car ready for the engine... not fixing things when they break.. (i'm also the guy laughing at the idiots who think engine first and blow something up or in track racing hitting the wall saying: I TOLD YOU SO) :lala: :lala: :lala:

 

Don't build a 305 up, Try and find someone with a built 350, I mean really built, and go for a ride, then you'll see hao much of a difference there is between a 305 and 350.

I agree with above 383 is the only way to go, thats what I'm doing when my 350 craps out.

 

Right now (or in the comming 6 mounths) i couldn't afford to buy a 350 block and/or heads.. (and everything i need)

Why not just build up the 305.. i can allways transfer what i got to the 350 block and get a nice 383 bottom for the engine... when i got the money..

I allready have 416's ported and done for the 305... there no good on a 383... if and when i build the 383 it's gonna have "real" heads

everything else will swap over...

and this would make for a nice test... see if you guys are telling the trueth. j/k
-----------------------------------------

yeah and i forgot to say that i've driven a s/c 383 tpi... i know what power is to some extent..

 

well, you have a direction. best of luck to you. although it may not be the route i would go, you understand the parts supply over there, and if you think you will be better off in the long run. then that is the way to go. be sure to keep us up to date on your project.

as for the platform, kinda depressing sometimes when you realise just how much money you in your car, and you aren't going much faster because of it but i'm getting close to doing the HP upgrades here soon.

 

Building 305, no dude no. Boring a 305 = dumb IMO. Find a 350 block.

 

no. you guys got me wrong. I'm only keeping the 305 for this winters build-up.. otherwise i wouldn't have anything to fidle with or and engine in my car next summer.

In the long run 350 or a 400 block is the way to go.. i know. just don't have the 2000$ laying around for the setup.

 

dude, i think you are missing the point. how is a 350 going to cost $2k ? you can get an aftermarket block for that price. everything you will be buying twice with your current plan.

 

Basically IMO you're wasting money. Some people like to do that though, and if you're in the position to dump a lot of $$$ into a motor thats just gonna get thrown away months later then go for it. But that money could have been used to better the "better" engine.

 

I think you guys misunderstood me.

The block + pistons + everything i need will cost over 2k over here. (new that is)

All of the parts i will be getting for the 305 will be swapable to the 350 block exept heads which i all ready have (could be used untill i get better ones for the 350).

I'll build the 305 for this next summer then just build the 350 when i got the cash...

I'm not gonna invest on the 305... but since i allready have half of the parts i need and all the gaskets. I'm gonna tear it down and do a build up... Even if it's just for educational purposes..

 

not everything will swap over. it seems your main concern is swapping the heads. technicly those heads will work on a 350. no issue there. but the pistons will not work. and good pistons for a 305 will cost MUCH more than a set for a 350. 4.030 pistons are a dime a dozen, because it is the most common size. getting performance 305 pistons, you either need to get custom ones , or there is one maybe two companies that make them, but they are priced higher than a 350 piston. the only additonal cost to you is the price of the block. my point is that the price of forged 305 pistons is going to make up for the price of the block

 

I think you guy understood me wrong.

Not changing the pistons... after i heard even you guys don't have a market for them i know i won't find any here. stated earlier.

Everything i'm GOING to get will be bought keeping the 350 block in mind..

I'd rather just spoof up the lil 305 and the start building the 350... other wise i run the risk of not having an engine next summer worth driving

 

ahhh, then go for it. that is what i am doing, tossing some 416's and a cam on my 305. that way it is a little better while i build a big cube beast for it.

sorry this whole time i though the plan was to rebuild the 305.

 

Yeh same here...

I had actually purchased a LT1 cam and a ZZ4 cam at one time for my car....

 

You guys were right, atleast i hope so. I got a 350 roller block cheap.

Plans changed to a 383 stealth setup. Seeing i would need a new ecu anyway i decided to toss alittle more money into the project.

I'll leave the stealth topic alone since it's off topic over here.

But now can you guys recomend good pistons to look for? I want light weight to compensate for the long stroke. Any ideas???

 

are you going to want to spray it in the future?

pretty much any good brand name will be a good piston.

Eagle
Wiseco
JE
ect