i have a 91 305 TBI.. i wanna kno what else i should do in order to reach my goal of running in the 14s 1/4 mile.. i have a complete exhaust(3"s all the way back,shorties n flowmaster), open air element and a full tune up.. soon ill be starting my chip burning and put in my LT1 cam. do you think this is enough to reach my goal?

 

youre going to need to ditch those swirl port stock heads... ask around for some 416's or 081's... the TPI 305 heads... with a decent port job on them, they can make some good power for cheap! 14's are difficult... but not unnatainable... TonyC from the SW reigon hit 15.01 with stock heads and and LT1 cam so im sure you could hit 14's if you got those heads on

 

actually, new news!! ask TonyC for sure now... he just landed a 14.91 with stock heads on a 305... good show tony and good luck bac67

 

There's people on these boards that run 14's with 305 TBI's that still have the stock heads and cam. Some 3.42's will probably get you very close to your goal.

If I were you, and I was only trying for 14's, I'd save myself the tuning headache, and keep the stock heads and cam. It's not hard to get an LO3 in the 14's.

 

mods in sig, dont have an new times since the torque converter, tranny, and intake manifold

 

thanx for the replies.. i think with enough tuning i hopefully dont have to change heads.. n i have 3.23s now but the need posi. is there any little usefull mods that can help me along the way.. Ultimate TBI? i need to tdo that

 

nitrous?

 

yeah nitrous.

My old 91 RS ran a 13.24 on the following

355
performer cam
performer tbi intake
caprice 350 injectors
stock 305 manifolds
cast pistons
2000 rpm stall
700r4
125 hp NOS TBI kit
MSD Box
MSD Timing retard
stock 2.73 rear end and posi

may it rest in piece.

 

oh it ran 15.01 off the bottle

 

Look at vjo90RS8's signature. It's a perfect example of how little things add up.

You may wanna try some weight reduction. If you've got a hard top t-5 car, then your already ahead of the game. Freeing up some rotational weight will surely get you some more power to the rear wheels. LS-1 Aluminum Driveshaft, Aluminum Drums (If you have drum brakes), and a light flywheel. You can get a flywheel from an L69, or LB9 car, that only weighs 16lbs. The flywheel you have right now weighs 25lbs.

Check this article out if you haven't done so already:
https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/t...ngpounds.shtml

 

easist way to reach 14s? buy an L98 car.

 

Check the link in my sig for the TBI time registry, it's a little old and I haven't updated it for quite a while, but it'll give you an idea of what you need to do to run 14's. Like Dave said, I just ran a 14.91 this weekend, tuning is crucial and fairly simple once you get your hands wet.

 

14s arn't hard to reach with the mods you already have. Just practice your launches and reaction times and you should get very close if not get there with the full exhaust you already have. Anything else done to your car. Open element? Suspension?

My times and mods are in my sig. Its getting into the 13s that is hard, give me a couple months!

 

Suspension. Suspension. Suspension.

 

how much have people dropped w/ suspension? and which suspension mods were the most worthwhile? I've always wanted to do that, but, well, suspensions are for rich people...read it somewehre.

-chillen

 

get a set of DR's. No matter how great your suspension is, it still got to go thru the tires....Granted my suspension was built to handle, not for off the line traction, but I have a lot of money into suspension, and still manage a 2.3 short time.

 

Drag radials would be nice, you should be able to get a set of barely used ones here or on camaroz28.com, ls1tech.com, etc for cheap.

Gears and posi, its almost easier to swap in a 3.42 posi rear end from a different car. That's a good time to upgrade to rear discs, too.

A good set of tubular lower control arms from spohn or bmr's from thunder racing. Look for them on group purchase to save money.

Doing those with an LT1 cam, exhaust, and tune should net you 14s.

 

I agree with what Chuck said but in addition. when you get the rear end, buy the Spohn LCA Relocators, they really help. If that isn't getting the job done, try sticking an airbag under the rear passenger side and going with a poly torque arm mount. That should hold you until you're well into the 14's and probably more. I bought an extra set of rims off of a fourthgen web site for like $90 to put my drag radials on, which has really made them last a long time.

 

wow so for a 305 to run 14's you need a 3.42 rear gear? And thats with a big cam AND bolt ons. For the cost of the headers and a 3.42 posi rear, you could get a rebuilt truck 350 like i did. I got the motor for 995$ from a shop called bowtie performance in sumner WA, it made 228 hp at the wheels and way more torque, hell it was a truck motor.

With this motor I ALMOST broke into the 14's with 305 manifolds, (restrictive as hell even on a 305) and pretty much stock everything else. It was a 2.73 open rear end and still used the stock exhaust and cat! the whole swap (new tranny not included) cost me about 1800 dollars, which is about what you would pay for some good aluminium heads for the 305, and sadly you will need good, light heads to really make a 305 powerd car go.

I know some people love 305's and building them for a variety of reasons, but the fact is a rebuilt 355 has 50 more cubes. ANY mod you do to your 305 will make more power when done on the 350, and in the end the 350 will be a more driveable engine. Yeah it may be fun to wrap the hell out of a small engine, but in traffic, who cares if you make big power upstairs.

I'm not trying to discourage you from playing around with your car, just know, that someday you will tire of the 305's lack of torque, and lack of room for big valves. The cost of a 350 swap is minimal, and boy... the change is amazing.

 

and a 4 inch cowl on a car that runs 14.3 ON the bottle...lol watch out for integras man, any decent swap will do you in.

 

odddoylerules --

I have stock everything, with a cam and intake. I'm solidly in the 14's with TBI still on it.

Ohh yeah, I made quite good torque numbers.

Please don't get back into this 305 vs 350 argument, it has been beaten to death. You have 6 posts so I'm going to leave it at that, and hope you prove to have enough class to not drag a thread down any further.

Unless of course you have some amazing new insight into the diffrence, that hasn't been found by people much smarter than myself, in the last 25 years, who have PHD's and write books.

 

Wow I'd like to congratulate you for doing what everyone else on the planet has done with their car, put in a 350, big props there! You're just an inovator, wow I wish I could think of new crazy things like you. **** you man, you don't know me or my goals with the car. If it was everyone's goal to go fast we'd all be driving 10 second pieces of ****, but I'm in college I don't have the money to swap in an engine like all you super fast guys do, man I suck as a person. When you pull your head out of your *** and start taking stuff for what it is, then talk to me, but until then, keep contributing sooooo much to this forum. My car ran a 17.0 stock, and now it's running almost 3 seconds faster on the same throttle body, heads and bottom end, but wow, I guess I wasted my time! My cam cost $40, pretty BIG investment in a BIG cam there (wierd how the cam is a stock cam, pretty HUGE). Nitrous is just a toy for me, I could care less what I run on nitrous, any idiot can install a nitrous system and go fast (or a 350 for that matter apparently). As for my hood, what do you care? I needed a little extra clearance for the nitrous plate, I had a 20% off summit coupon, it's lighter, and I like the way it looks, but I guess that was a bad decision since it's YOUR car and not mine.

Man, I'm so sorry I insulted you by keeping my 305 in the car and seeing what it could do rather than swapping in a 350, how ignorant of me!

 

an alternative to the 350 swap is to do what i'm kinda working on right now. Like tony, i'm in college, and well, have little money to say the least. Every mod that I plan on doing over the next couple years will be compatible with the 350 that i plan on getting after college. Full exhaust, new gears/posi, nitrous, and hopefully tuning very soon. I also might do the lt1 cam swap if i can get a handle on tuning, simply because its relativly cheap. Also might throw on a new intake, as my neighbor has this old one sitting in his garage that prolly flows better then the little tbi one (gotta run the part number on it to learn more about it first).

-chillen

 

college is a bummer deffinately... ive got a 350/auto with 3.23 gears and im more than likely running high 14's. i dont know as i have never taken it to the track and ran, but its pretty quick, but ive dumped a lot of dough into this car, im up to 9k if you include the cost of the car, but that is my stereo, motor, new transmission, rearend.. everything... even the new heads/cam/headers i havent put on yet. once those go on, i should be in the 13's, smog legal, naturally aspirated AND all OEM im still going to college, but lucky for me, its UTI, an automotive tech trade school... and i have a very good job, so that helps out quite a bit...

 

I'm just sayin, you guys are telling him to do rear end swaps and modifications that along with being costly and labor intensive, are going to affect driveability to some extent, and will cause a huge increase in his fuel consumption, which is somthing to consider with gas nearing 3 dollars a gallon. I'm sure he gets pretty decent gas mileage with the 305, but stab in a "HOT" cam, and put 3.42 in the rear end, and it becomes a less of a commuter car and more of a street/strip ride. Besides, with a 350 you'd have the firepower to take on the best factory hot rods of the era.

I agree that doing modifications that will be compatible with both motors is an ideal way to start, but when you get to hard parts like headers and such, the ideal for the 305 isnt going to be as ideal for the 350...

Tony C, i didnt say it was a waste, you took a performance turd and turned it into a contender. Taking 3 seconds off your et with the same basic setup is an accomplishment to be proud of. HOWEVER...

A 4 inch cowl on a 14 second car reminds me of the pro street thing... and spraying your way to the 14's definitely doesn't earn much respect. Now I could be saying things like I thought only focuses and neons were about the nahhhss and the bling bling, but I'm not trying to start a flame war. but still, nitrous+cowl induction should not = mid 14's. hell some ran like that from the factory.

and for my last thought i'm not going into the same old 305/350 debate, i'm just saying, after 2 years of having a 305 and 6 months of having the new combo, I'm glad I didnt throw big bucks into the 305, when the 350 swap was so reasonable, and gave me a better end product anyway. when that car gets back on the road, i can look forward to tuning a 3rd gen that has the cubes to keep up with the pack.

 

I would hardly consider 3.42's a crazy street/stip gear. Lets not get started on the number of guys I know who have tossed 6k into a 350 based motor first, then are sorely dispointed with the 2.XX gears, and end up swapping them anyway.

Fuel consumtion -- 350 making 350hp, is going to consume just as much gas as a 305 making the same HP (assuming RPM range is close between the two). With EFI you can tune these motors to get descent milage (did I mention I get 30+ on the freeway? how many 350 TPI cars can claim that.)

I really didn't want to get into this. You are not dealing with a bunch of stupid people here. No one is going to argue the performance potential of the two motors, the 350 is always going to win that. But for someone with the facilities or know how, to take on a full engine swap, a few well thought out modifications to a 305 can really wake it up. I would venture to guess, that if you dropped in a fairly stock 350, that my little bolt on 305 will show you tail-lights all night long. I haven't spent much money on it at all. Instead I talked with a lot of very knowledgable people, and got a game plan together, for how to wake the motor up, with the least amount of parts/money involved.

I am going to say this again. When you come up with something to contribute to the conversation, beyone what has been brought up over and over and over again, please don't bother to reply. You are not helping the converstaion what so ever. If you want to talk about the same old 305/350 topic, there are many a thread for you to do that in. For the people who are generaly interested in this subject, let them get they tech they are intrested in.

 

I'm in the 14's N/A and I have a lot to gain still from tuning and actually learning to drive. Like I said, nitrous is just a toy for me, I was running way rich (10.5-11.0:1) on the bottle and spinning fairly badly between gears, honestly, I could care less what it runs on the bottle, and keep in mind that 101mph is enough power to get into the 13's. My whole rear end setup cost $300. That was a 3.42 posi disc rear from a 95 Trans Am, not high dollar at all and should last for a while. I don't have to justify my hood to anyone, so I'll leave it at that. I was just showing one route to get into the 14's with these cars. In all reality, I haven't done much to the car and none of it's been high dollar except for the headers and ignition, and I had discounts on those as well.

 

not everyone wants a 350, i'm very content with my turd as it is. coming very soon i'm gonna be taking out an alternative student loan to pay for my mechanics tools and i'm gonna set aside an extra $2000 to try and do some head/cam/intake/exhaust mods to get my car to 250rwhp. so what if i could swap a 350 in it for that and be at 350rwhp. if i wanted to be like everyone else i woulda picked up a 5.0 mustang a long time ago. don't let anyone sway you from your goals tonyc, they may be turds but they're our turds

 

i also forgot to mention, the ONLY reason i went the 350 route was because I BLEW UP my 305... they dont like when you lose all the oil over the train tracks you just bottomed out over... the replacement 350 was cheaper than a comprable 305... rearend swap and minor work will get you where you want to go even with the 45 less cubes...

 

The stock 305-4bbl that was in my G20 would show lots of stock 350s its tail lights. My friend had an 86 C10 with a 350 that my little 305 would show tail lights to any day of the week. I doubt that swapping to a stock or near stock 350 would gain you more than 1-2 tenths at the track. You can get more bang for the buck switching gears and stabbing a new cam, not to mention change the exhaust from the exhaust ports back.

 

What were your 60's with that non posi 2.73?

 

True, but why stay small when a 350 is often times cheaper to rebuild. Not to mention you will get more for your money in the long run if you have plans for future mods.

 

ok a 350 swap has always been on my mind and probly the mind of alot of 305ers but the hardest part i find with it is trying to find a considerable(cheap) but effective and powerfull 350??

 

Stick with the 305. This isn't a debate about motor swaps. Its a debate about reaching the 14s, with what we already have. Theres tons of potential in a 305 and when the time comes to go 350 almost everything you do to the 305 will cross right over. I plan on 13s with my 305 and thats pretty good by anyones standards for a daily drivin car.

 

in any case.... There are a few cool 305's out there, I remember when I used to post here a coupla of years ago there was a 305 guy that had like dual turbos he did himself, THAT is a great use of a 305. Build a top end monster with Big port heads and a big hyd roller cam and spin the hell out of it. Ive seen power curves from a 305 that look like ferrari v10's.

Yes, he could easily be in the 14's for the cost of a few MORE mods, but it would be the same car, just a little quicker on paper. A 350 swap FEELS like a different car... and as for the 6 grand motors... if they build a 350 to spin the hell out of and dont make peak torque until like 4800 rpms, yeah, theyre gonna need steep rear end gears to drive the thing around.

I hope you guys dont really think i'm stupid as has been implied.

You wont even put down 350 at the wheels with a budget 350, you'll put down like 250, comperable toa modded 305, but with more torque at a lower peak rpm. 2000 dollars to mod your 305? I'll get you a good torquey 2 bolt truck motor with hypeuretic (sp?) pistons, and a towing cam that craps out around 4800 for dirt compared to that. I'm sure your 305 has some miles on it too. better not be modding and beating too hard.

dewey, live with 3.42's for a while and you'll miss your 2.xx gears. i ran 2.xx gears and had great mileage, almost 30 mpg wouldnt have been a pipe dream. And I loved them. Car would hit the speed limiter in 3rd AND 4th with lots of room to rev... BEFORE the bottle. the nitrous liked the tame gears too, it helped with wheelspin and made the car a missile in 4th gear. Running with the front of the pack on the freeway was a lot of fun. Wouldnt be trying it with 3.42s.

yeah thats right. I rocked a thirdgen to the Kent street races back in 02. Major ***** scene. The only other domestic v8's were cobras and the odd 4th gen. I mean there were silvias, and supras. RX-7's and AWD. Lots of turbos. Intimidating Hardware. But an american car I got for 1900 bucks, put a 2200 dollar engine and transmission in, plus a 500 dollar bolt on held its own with supercars. And I dont need to tell you guys how well our cars handle.

So in all my final $.02 is if you keep the 305, do somthing amazing with it. Most 305 cars on here are struggling to get into the 14's, and are pretty much maxed out in their current combination. Aim higher. Do somthing special. so its not another mid 14 second nossed cowl hooded pokey american joke... Theres a reason ricers pick on third gens. a lot of them are slow.

 

i cant say R I C E R?

 

I have for years, and still get 30mpg. If you really don't beleive me, next time I'm up north, you are welcome to go for a ride. Changing gears was one of the best mods I have EVER done.

 

free mods and 4.10 or 3.73 posi. is all it takes. my oild 91 went 15.05 on free mods and 3.54 gears when it weighed in at 3580 with road racign suspension and street tires.
14's are easy as hell.

later
tim