It's a 92' Camaro.. pulling the 305tbi out and in with a 355...
it will be running a comp cam 206/212@50 D w/ 425/440lift.. with a edelbrock intake.. and 5 angle valve job. Nothing special.
Since the TBI never came on the 350 where do I get a chip for it.. and will it be safe to use the stock injector?

Thanks for any help

 

I would get bigger injectors.

the Caprice came with a 350 TBI, the prom from one of those might work for you. Really you should probably consider getting tuning equipment, although it isn't a radical combo, i doubt a stock 350 chip will be close enough to really make you happy

 

Not looking to tune it myself. Just want a chip I know will work and get it going. I don't need a custom chip to get an extra 10hp out of it.. if that's all I'm looking at. If the 350tbi chip will work let me know as I will just use that. But I don't want any drivability issues.
Thanks for the reply

 

thats the thing, with a diffrent cam, you will likely have drivablitly issues, it doesn't take much of a chance to through the tune off enought to cause the car to be very bad to drive. if you are doing no tuning, you will need to have the 350 injectors, that match whatever chip you put in.

 

..and there lies the question.. what chip to get?
has someone done this combo on a DIY chip that may want to burn me one?.. I'd glady pay

 

and there lies the problem, no one is going to be able to just burn you a chip that will be any closer than the popular caprice cop car chip. If your really not wanting to burn your own you will be better off getting the 350 injectors and going to your GM dealer and gettting a chip for a 350 caprice. Of course you can always go mail order, but at the prices they are charging now, I would save your money and just get a stocker.

I'll go out on a limb and say that chip tuning could be worth as much as 20 or 30 hp. You won't loose that much over stock if you don't properly tune it, but you won't get the full power potential of your cam without tuning, and by tuning I mean the hands on type.

 

run the carpice chip and if it does not meet your needs.... welcome to "world of DIY Tuning" ! class begins soon...
there are some for fee burners out there. some obviously better than others. you need to send them multiple data logs for multiple reburns. each one should be better than prior.

 

... okay.. here's a question..
what if I bought a stage 2 type chip for a 350 tbi caprice...
that should be close eh?

 

No. Chip work is like mail order surgery. You don't know what the parient needs unless you have it in your hands. You can't send a new organ through the mail. Stage X chips often just throw lots of timing and fuel where it is not needed. Chip work is a balancing of many parameters and not just adding a bunch of fuel and spark.

 

I understand that.. just thought it may be fairly close since it is a mild setup.

How do the big chip tuners tune for application then?
I mean, how can I just call and tell them what I'm running and they send me a custom cpu?

 

The factory 350 caprice chip will run that small cam perfect. Bump the fuel pressure to about 13 and advance the timing to about 4* and it will run pretty good. Their will be more left in prom tuning but the factory 350 tune will get you by until you can learn DIY prom.

The factory 1993 G20 van 350 computer ran my 350 pretty good as long as I didn't get on it too.

Not to start a flame war but Brian has done several similar engine in astros.

 

Key phrase.

At this point, I don't expect to change some people thoughts on this. I have watched dynos swing 20hp with just a couple of degree's of timing, and two or three tenths on the AFR. If you have never seen or felt the diffrence, I don't expect you to beleive me. All I can do is tell you, that you cannot compare the results of a hands on tune, to a mail order.

I have half a mind to just buy a mail order chip or two, and head to the dyno and track, but that only tells half the story. I cannot show you with numbers the diffrence in drivability, or the fact that with a good tune, the cranks up first try, no long cranking. That is the stuff that you just cannot show the diffrence to people. If I could somehow show people over the internet, what a couple of very small changes to the AE tables make in the drivability of a car, I would. There is NO WAY that a mail order chip could nail down some of these things.

I don't want to start a flame war either, you mentioned names, I'm not going to. I guess the key word in all of these discussions, is the word 'driveable', I may have a diffrent defintion of that, to me the tune is not good, and the car is not drivable, if it does not perform, and run great anytime, anywhere. I want it to start nicely if its 10* below zero, or 110*, I never want it to stumble, I want to pull down 30mpg on the freeway, I want to be able to fill it up with gas at any gas station, and not worry about what a bad tank of gas is going to do to my engine.

If you defination of drivable, is just barely running, but running, limp home mode will do that. I have tested it, and know my car will run, and drive down the road in LHM, but I would not want to pay someone money for that kind of 'drivability'

 

Man Dewey that just about sums it up.

I actually got ahold of an older hypercrap chip that wasn't encrypted The hypercrap only had 4 degrees of timing put in the 100 kpa 3200 rpm cell of the timing curve and the speed limiter was removed and that was it,he paid 100 bucks for what he could have gotten by simply rotating the dissy.

If some one would host the video's I could take a few video's of my car idleing or attempting to on a stock 350 chip, an "aftermarket" chip and my current tune just to give people an idea of what a difference chip tuning makes in the drivability department.

 

try the caprice chip. see how it runs? if satisfied so be it. if not, consider your options. any chance one can be had from junk yark or do they want to sell the entire ECU?

 

around here you can get an entire ecu for about half the price of a new chip. Wouldn't hurt to have a spare.

 

what would I do with a spare

 

BMmonte --

PM me, or catch me later today on AIM, I can host some video for you.

--John

 

i would have "guessed" same.

 

spare?

sell it in classifieds.

 

why would I buy an extra to sell it?

 

to get the stock caprice chip inside it for low cost to install in your current ECU. assuming the caprice used same ecu as yours and/or caprice ecu is diff than yours then caprice chip may be compatable with your diff ecu. i run a truck ecu with corresponding truck chip. i only have knowledge of my 7747. the rest i know little.

 

Cal,

Speaking from first hand experience, you will probably loose horspower if you run a stock chip. After I got my setup put together I ran a 17.0 with a car that was 16.0 stock. It took some chip tuning to get it to 15.5 and there is still more to go.

Not trying to preach, just preparing you for what your going to find.

 

thanks for the help guys..
mostly everything that's said here is a given though..
I mean.. I know that without actually dynoing it and getting an A/F graph to map from I will never be perfect.. I'm not looking for that right now.. and don't think I will really care to be honest. It's not my car it's a friends...
I am more than mechanically adept to do the build up and the swap.. but I have taken no time to research a halfway decent chip.. or the ability of tuner to get it pretty close.. .. that's where you guys come in.
I don't think in any way there is going to be a problem with this mild setup.. and a chip from a competent tuner..
TBIchips.com says he can easily make a chip for this setup .. so that's where I'm going

 

make sure you update us on your results with the mail order chip.

 

will do

 

Just to add another question to this. What if one installed a STOCK L05 engine? Would a custom chip be needed then? I have been considering an L05 in my Firebird for quite a while with (for now) just the addition of headers/full exhaust and an opened up intake. If I were able to locate a Caprice 350 chip or 87 Chevy truck chip, would I have any "driveability" issues?

 

Just to add another question to this. What if one installed a STOCK L05 engine? Would a custom chip be needed then? I have been considering an L05 in my Firebird for quite a while with (for now) just the addition of headers/full exhaust and an opened up intake. If I were able to locate a Caprice 350 chip or 87 Chevy truck chip, would I have any "driveability" issues?

 

no, with a bone stock L05, the LO5 chip should be just as good as it was from the factory. You could gain from customer tuning it, but it should run like it did from the factory. That is if everythign is stock, cam, intake, TB, injectors, etc.

 

My 350 TBI from D&J machine runs with the stock computer. Idle's a bit funky though (surges between 600 and 1100and I had to upgrade my ign. module though. Other than that it's fine.

It is modified, however, edelbrock TBI manifold and some higher tension springs (probably why I had to upgrade my ignition).

The stock 305 injectors were too small, so I grabbed some for a 350 equipped truck at the parts store and was on my way.

 

Let me throw my 2 cents in, because im in EXACTLY the same boat you are in. I replaced the weak a$$ 305 in my 89 rs with a pre-86 model 350. First, youre probably not going to like what i have to say. I know i didnt when shifty said it to me, but here goes: you need to burn your own chips.

Now, that being said, i had to change the following:
injectors (350 ones)
ESC module (GM part #16128261)
knock sensor

I retained my ECM (1228746), and was excited when my car fired up and ran halfway decent. The operative word being HALFWAY. Yes, it runs and i drive it to work every day, but it has a wicked hesitation until it warms up, and the motor dies when im backing up and have the steering wheel turned. You will have to have the egr turned off on your chip, or the ses light will drive you nuts. I didnt want to get into chip burning either, but the more i read on this website, the more i like it.
If its a cost thing youre thinking about, Craig Moates sells a programmer called a BURN1, and also an adapter to fit one of the eeprom chips to the 8746 ecm. All total i will have around 150 bucks invested in my burning equipment. Not to dog the guy on tbichips, but he wanted 94 bucks for one of his "enhanced" cop car chips. For an extra 56 bucks, i could do my own. Its not really a hard decision.

Heres my suggestion: search, study, search, study and search some more. Youll come to the same conclusion i did.

 

it's not for me it's for a friend.. and this has to be plug and play..I don't have time to burn chips..
I don't think there will be issues with his chip.. he guarantees it will work 100%..
EGR valve is staying in so can't see a problem with the light

 

100% huh

 

I'm sure it wont be as well..
I just figure if he guarantees then chances are it should run pretty well... this is a very mild setup afterall

 

Dont say we didnt warn you........

 

you know what though... unless someone can come on here and say they've used his chip for a setup like mine and had ****tly results.. then I have no choice but to think it will work.. no one can disprove it... the only thing anyone can prove is that it runs like **** on a stock ecu... correct?

 

do a search for tbichips.com

 

all the guys that are saying it won't run that good are saying it because they have all tuned their own vehicles and know that their first try at a chip with no datalogging was a complete wash. They understand what it takes to get a good tune, there for they know there is NO WAY to get it even 50% right on the first try. Luckily GM designed in a lot of self compensation in their ecm's which covers up for a crapy tune at part throttle. The catch 22 is that at WOT your ecm reverts back to it's base VE curves which are all FUBAR for your new combination. Thats why we say for a mild combo like yours it's best to save that money for something else, because your tune is probably going to be in about the same shape with or without the aftermarket chip.

Like Dewey said do a search and decide for yourself.

 

A lot of this depends on the flavor of your L05. Your Cam is key. Caprices came with different set ups. The 9C1 cop cars were closest to the F body L05's I believe. They ran the L98 cam and 65 lb injectors. I believe the chips were calibrated for a slightly richer mixture for more torque as well and having no speed governor. They aren't that difficult to find, check the B body forums. This combo was good for like 190-205 h.p. depending on the year. Then there are the civillian L05's, available in Caprices, roadmasters, and the olds custom cruiser. They run 55 lb injectors and have the infamous "peanut" cam, same as the L03's, and are good for like 180 h.p. The L03's ran 40 lb injectors.

I swapped the L03 in my 91 caprice for a stock replacement L05 for a 92 roadmaster. Originally I cheaped out and had a mail order chip done which tried to use the 305 40 lb injectors. The car ran, but it stumbled in open loop and seemed to be starved for fuel at freeway speeds. I ended up going with a stock chip from a roadmaster and the 55 lb injectors, but the car was noticibly quicker with the mail order chip, it just didn't have the driveability. I keep meaning to send it back for re-calibration, but I kind of like the fact it runs on 87 octane right now. The mail order chips require 91+ or a 160 degree stat to ward off detenation from the advanced timing curves. I have heard the 160 degree stats can cause issues getting thhe car into closed loop mode.

Incidentally, the car is not noticibly quicker with the buick chipped 350 than it was with the 305, and in fact feels slower sometimes, though it seems to work less hard. I'm not suprised since were talking only a 10 horsepower gain with this setup over the L03, but lots more low end torque. This probably explains my 2-3 mpg gain in fuel economy with the L05.

Maybe I'll try the aftermarket chip with the bigger injectors. It'll probably be pig rich though. I want to do my own chips anyway since a vortec swap is in the works. I just needed the thing to run again as its my daily driver. If I had it to do over again I'd probably do the tune myself but I think a mail order can work if you have a reasonably common setup, though it wouldn't be quite as optimized compared to burning your own. With you using an aftermarket Cam, I'd definately burn my own. You'll get plenty of support here. Understandably the ECM tuning gurus on this board tend to be less helpful to those who run mail order chips due to the fact they are doing somebody elses job.

You will need the knock sensor and ESC module as well as the injectors and chip. Mine ran with the 305 ESC, but was noticibly quicker with the correct 350 one.

The mail order chips are guarenteed in that if they are off you can send it back for a recalibrationif it doesn't run right. Of course your car won't run while the chip is in the mail. Yes, you do have to send it back. If you need 100 percent plug and play and aren't concerned with "an extra 10 horsepower", swap in an L98 cam and use the caprice 9C1 setup or the peanut cam and a caprice/roadmaster/custom cruiser setup. Lord knows someone will probably pay you to take those cams. In fact, I have one in my old 305 you can have for shipping if you want it. It'll probably still run better thann a stab in the dark chip. But if you don't care about extra h.p., then why the aftermarket cam?