Zant69

Anyone know what the original HP is on a 91' RS with TBI 305 v8? I have one (with a few mods) and was just wondering what the original stats were... thanks! Brant

------------------
Everything I know I learned by messing it up at least once.

Z28 Boy

it was rated at 170hp and 255 ft.lbs. torque. but, chevy usually underrates its motors, so it was actually probly around 180-190 hp.
-brian

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1991 Camaro RS
----------------------------------------------
Ultra Blue Metallic, T-Tops

GM 350 HO Crate Engine - Vortec Heads, Edelbrock Performer Vortec Intake, Holley 670 CFM Throttle Body, Open Air Cleaner w/14"x3" K&N, Edelbrock TES Headers, Edelbrock Victor Series Water Pump, Accell Superstock Wires, Cap, and Rotor, MSD Blaster Coil, Hypertech Fan Switch & Thermomaster Chip, AC Delco Rapidfires, 3" Cat Back, Flowmaster 40 Series Muffler

700R4 - 2,400 Stall Converter, Vette Servo, Shift Kit, B&M Super Cooler

Brian's 1991 RS

Central NY F-Body Association

ONEFINE8T9

i agree with z28

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

ive seen too many dyno runs to think these motors are underrated.. dont fool yourself

they are 170 hp

Hotrod magazine dynoed one at 174 hp on an engine dyno

they arent under rated

[This message has been edited by Pablo (edited October 16, 2000).]

Zant69

Well, that's pitiful, isn't it? 170 hp?? Why would chevy even bother? What a disgrace to it's older brother (IROC-Z) I know I get beaten by just about everything on the road... I got dawged by a kid in his mom's honda, a few weeks ago. Why would I want to spend any more money doing mods on this thing? To have 200hp and still get smoked? Sorry for the ranting.. it just ticks me off....... thanks for the info!

------------------
Everything I know I learned by messing it up at least once.

91Bird305

Get used to it Zant69. I don't even know why chevy made the LO3. I think I remember someone saying it was for emmisisons or something. I could be wrong though.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

SeanSullivan

Just a thought, could be for the emissions yes.. but how about reliability? There are a lot guys here with the 305 engine and over 100K miles on the engine and it still runs great, somewhat under powered and slow, maybe, but still running fine. You start giving up some reliability when you start making more HP albeit a small amount at first. But when you really start making LOTS of HP you lose reliability. Personally thought Chevy could've put 230 HP in this engine without that much of a loss of reliability. Just an opinion, and a thought.

89BlwnRs

If you've got the money, drop in a 350. The larger bore will give you bigger valves, and the extra cubes will help with the torque.

You can build the L03 up, but there are few street legal parts for them. You can use some 350 heads, but you have to watch out for valve-to-bore interference and compression ratio.

The L98 Vette heads have 58cc combustion chambers, but they do not retain the EGR. World Products does make some heads for 305s that do have EGR. These have 58cc combustion chambers too.

As far as intakes, a carb intake in the general consensus around here and the Edelbrock Performer has provisions for the EGR.

Exhaust and cams are easy to find, and with a custom chip or the stock injectors, the Holley 670 TBI will work with our engines.

The 305 can be built up, but the pickings are slim, and I doubt you'd see much over 300 HP with everything done w/ street lega parts currently available.

Jason

91Bird305

LO3 is kinda like a bottomless pit when it comes to trying to make big hp. Just like
89BlwnRs said. Look at all the stuff u have to buy in order for it to run for a 305TBI to run with other V8's. Still not very fast for a V8 though. I haven't seen anyone on here with an LO3 run in the 13's. But I might be wrong, maybe they just aren't saying anything. But there engines are usually bored over or they have put thousands of dollars into the engine that they could spent on swapping a crate 350 in. (yeah I said it again).


[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 17, 2000).]

Z28 Boy

so...what is the BIG difference between a 305 and a 350, anyways? 45 cubic inches. hmm. doesn't seem like so much. consider the 1st gen. z28s with 302s. well, it seems that those are 48 cubic inches less than a 350, but they worked just fine with 290 hp. go figure.

no matter what anyone says, the difference between a similarly prepared 305 and 350 isn't much. now the difference between an L03 and an L98 is big. but like said in the never ending "supercharged L03" post, it depends on the parts! cam, heads etc. get a cam and get some good heads and you have 230-250 horse EASILY from an L03 for around a grand. throw a new intake throttle body and some exhaust, and you will be all set. and that is the same crap that the TPI guys throw on their cars.

just because from the factory L03's only had 170 hp, they STILL had 255 torque. torque is what actually makes the car get up and go, so that isnt so bad. i just dont understand why a 305 is sooo bad. ok i agree that teh L03 isn't the best performance motor out of the factory, but it can be upgraded. many upgrades the same as the TPI guys.

i know this is coming from a guy that actually ripped out the 305 to get a new crate 350. well, the reason i did that is because i had 115k on the motor and a freeze plug was leaking and the front main seal was leaking, and i simply wanted a new one. when it comes to replacing a 305, then sure, go with a 350. i mean they are the same price, so why not. i dont knwo anyone that would give up a free 45 cubic inches. but to just junk a perfectly good motor for a new one is totally crazy.

well its time again for me to either get laid, or go to a mustang board and give 'em hell.

-brian

------------------
1991 Camaro RS
----------------------------------------------
Ultra Blue Metallic, T-Tops

GM 350 HO Crate Engine - Vortec Heads, Edelbrock Performer Vortec Intake, Holley 670 CFM Throttle Body, Open Air Cleaner w/14"x3" K&N, Edelbrock TES Headers, Edelbrock Victor Series Water Pump, Accell Superstock Wires, Cap, and Rotor, MSD Blaster Coil, Hypertech Fan Switch & Thermomaster Chip, AC Delco Rapidfires, 3" Cat Back, Flowmaster 40 Series Muffler

700R4 - 2,400 Stall Converter, Vette Servo, Shift Kit, B&M Super Cooler

Brian's 1991 RS

Central NY F-Body Association

ONEFINE8T9

well put Z28BOY.....LOL 91BIRD i should have known u would be in here bashing 305s. I dont get what u mean about bottomless pit
. Maybe a bottomless pit for a beat down 305 with a million bolt ons that barely add power. Like i said from the beginning Heads and cam and ur set. Also a nice set of rear end gears will wake up a car. But all those mods would be worthless on a tired motor....


------------------
Bright red 1989 firebird
305 TBI (stock)
5 speed
16x8 inch WS.6 wheels
T Tops
richmond 3.73s
Custom professionally done car audio system
tinted windows
Tail light blackouts
58000 origional one owner miles

91Bird305

Well i don't agree that those mods would be worthless on a motor with high miles. Why do u think low miles is a mod? Its even in your sig! If he was to replace the cam, heads, intake and exaust he wouldn't even have the same engine he had before! All those "tired parts" would be replaced. Plus, why do u think the 305 gets tired and looses horsepower after high miles? Look at Josh's 91 Bird. He has mods like mine but he has a Summit Cam and he runs a 14.78 in the 1/4 mile and he has 99,000 miles! And I know there are others on this board like me that have high mileage engines (mine is 104,000) that will rip any stock or modified 305. You think that high mileage cars have to double up on their mods so they can compete with a slightly modified low mileage 305? Don't think so. And there is plenty of proof out there. And why did u say heads and cam and that would be it? Dude, u just don't throw on heads and a cam and leave the rest stock and say "off we go!" You need to get that engine breathing too. You would need an intake and an open element, tb spacer wouldn't hurt while your working on that area and a higher cfm tb unit. Then you would have to let your engine exhaul. Headers are very important when it comes to heads and cam work and without a good set of headers and exaust you will never get the full potential out of those heads and cam. There is a lot more work than just heads and cam. After you do all that THEN you have to get a custom prom made or your engine will run like sh*t.


And I agree with Brian, the 305 can be made into a powerful engine. But like I said, u have to replace practically everything on the engine cause the LO3 is so restricted and some of the mods like the cam you have to raise the block out of the engine bay anyways so why not just replace it instead of fooling around with it? Thats the way I look at. If I am going to pay people, or if I am going to myself, take the block out for a 25hp gain from a cam, why not just take the whole thing out and put on a bigger hp increase. Whether it be a 350, 383, 400 or 327, list goes on and on, I am just saying TAKE OUT THE LO3 and PUT SOMETHING DIFFERENT IN! Like one of the engines I listed above, because for some of the mods you would do on the LO3 like a cam you would have to raise the block almost out anyways.
------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html



[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 17, 2000).]

Tas

the Vortec 305 was rated at 230Hp in a big fat truck. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS6

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz
ICQ 82881207

91Bird305

Hey, i didn't say anything about other 305's being horriable. I am talking about the LO3. So keep vortech and whoever else out of this. Plus, once you have the engine bay empty and ready for any engine you wanted...would u really want to throw another 305 in there? Some people would but I wouldn't. There are 305's that are great engines but then there is the LO3. So u can have your pipe back Tas. I don't smoke.

And now on to 8T9, the open elemet and spacers I said would just "help" nothing wrong with a little hp here and there. DUDE! WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT CAM AND HEADS BEING BOLT ONS!!??? LoL! And what is this that the LS1's have the same intake manifolds as us?! Oh man, you are retarded. HAHAHAHA!
And who cares about what josh did with his rollers, he runs a 14.78 on a 305 TBI without NOS or a blower. hell, he is only a few tenths away from Blown 305 TBI and he has a blower on his 305! Dude, your ridicolous. LS1's with our TBI intakes,cam and heads and thats it, no need for a custom chip, someone set him straight PLEEASSEE!!! Pablo? I know u know this! DO SOMETHING!


[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 17, 2000).]

ONEFINE8T9

lower mileage a mod??? WTF are u talking about. I am simply listing a description of my car in my sig. U know its funny....all those mods u think make a difference (open element, tbi spacer ect...) are the same ones u have. If a car has high mileage the rings are most likely shot. Its a fact, these are mechanical parts that wear. U can only mod a tired motor up so uch b4 u only get blow by. We are not gonna get into joshes mods. Ya he went with a cam but he sacraficed the factory roller lifters for some standard flat tipped. ya that was smart. I would really use his mods as a point of reffrence.

as far as mods other than heads and cam.... u can just bolt them on and u go. Thats y they call them "bolt ons". Not "redesign ur entire engine so it will work properly bolt ons". The only thing i could possibly agree with is a larger tbi unit. I think the factory manifolts are fine. Thats y they still come on the new LS1s. But i guess the new birds are restrictive to huh. damn they should have checked with u b4 they desinged that restrictive exahaust system that can be good for over 320 hp

Tas

"Hey, i didn't say anything about other 305's being horriable. I am talking about the LO3. So keep vortech and whoever else out of this. "

why scared to change heads and cam?

"Plus, once you have the engine bay empty and ready for any engine you wanted...would
u really want to throw another 305 in there?"

Empty what? why am I gonna spend $1500 on a new shortblock when mine is still fine?

"Some people would but I wouldn't. There are 305's that are great engines but then there is the LO3."

**** ya its great. I got 150k miles and its runs like a swiss watch. It can go 300k mines easy with synthetic oil. why not put the vortec top end on it?

Zant69

Hey, easy EASY! hehe.. well, the LO3 must be what I have... cuz' it's never had impressive horsepower. It makes a whole lot of noise and seems as if it's gettin' up and goin'... But, it's really bad for a V8. My girlfriend's 95' Eclipse turbo puts this V8 to shame.... I mean BAD! I'm a man and My Big american V8 is gettin' dawged by My girlfriend's 4 cylinder import??Oh, the humanity of it all.... hehe.. anyway.. whenever the 305 finally has to come out (it has 117k, now) putting in a 350 goes without saying. Thanks for the input guys.. You Rule!

------------------
Everything I know I learned by messing it up at least once.

91Bird305

Scared to change heads and cam? Why would I when I am swapping engines next summer? Not scared, just makes sense not too. And why would u spend more money on a short block? because your short block is an LO3 thats why.
And about your mileage, hey man thats great. I love to hear that. Don't make this a grudge. All I said is that the LO3 isn't really a performance engine, GM didn't make it like that. I just though maybe getting something like a 350,383, something bigger would be better, since GM doesn't make 305's anymore, doesn't that kinda say something? And Firebirdluver, read my previous post before Tas's.

Tas

I'm not reading all that crap. you're not worth it.

91Bird305

BWHAAAAA, I'm a BAAADDDD MAN!

Tas

nothing sinks into that fat head. so I'm not bothering.

91Bird305

oh come on, read it....you know u want too. Atleast read Onefine8T9's post. I know u will get a kick out of that.


[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 17, 2000).]

Z28 Boy

so uhh anyone down for going to the corral or whatever the hell it is?

------------------
1991 Camaro RS
----------------------------------------------
Ultra Blue Metallic, T-Tops

GM 350 HO Crate Engine - Vortec Heads, Edelbrock Performer Vortec Intake, Holley 670 CFM Throttle Body, Open Air Cleaner w/14"x3" K&N, Edelbrock TES Headers, Edelbrock Victor Series Water Pump, Accell Superstock Wires, Cap, and Rotor, MSD Blaster Coil, Hypertech Fan Switch & Thermomaster Chip, AC Delco Rapidfires, 3" Cat Back, Flowmaster 40 Series Muffler

700R4 - 2,400 Stall Converter, Vette Servo, Shift Kit, B&M Super Cooler

Brian's 1991 RS

Central NY F-Body Association

Z28 Boy

i dont wantto **** anyone off but...

heads and cam are not really a bolt-on. i mean, yeah heads do indeed bolt on. with SEVENTEEN BOLTS! c'mon. heads are not a bolt on. a new coil. sure..thats a bolt-on. some pullies...yup..thats a bolt on. but heads? c'mon.

cam a bolt on? if you consider either pulling the motor/tranny or ripping apart your front end, then sure thats a bolt-on. a cam is as much a bolt on as torque converter. next thing you know, switching to a bowtie aluminum block will be a bolt-on.

and, the exhause manifold on our cars and on the LS1's are a little different. actually, they are a LOT different. the LS1 exhaust manifolds are almost like headers. jsut for the heck of it i went and scanned some p[ics out of the 98 camaro literature and the 91 camaro literature...here is what i found...



left is obviously the LS1...if your exhaust manifolds came from the factory looking like that, then somethings wrong. very wrong.

'nuff said....im staying out of this one from now on.

-brian

------------------
1991 Camaro RS
----------------------------------------------
Ultra Blue Metallic, T-Tops

GM 350 HO Crate Engine - Vortec Heads, Edelbrock Performer Vortec Intake, Holley 670 CFM Throttle Body, Open Air Cleaner w/14"x3" K&N, Edelbrock TES Headers, Edelbrock Victor Series Water Pump, Accell Superstock Wires, Cap, and Rotor, MSD Blaster Coil, Hypertech Fan Switch & Thermomaster Chip, AC Delco Rapidfires, 3" Cat Back, Flowmaster 40 Series Muffler

700R4 - 2,400 Stall Converter, Vette Servo, Shift Kit, B&M Super Cooler

Brian's 1991 RS

Central NY F-Body Association

z28boy@twcny.rr.com AOL name..Z28 Boy

[This message has been edited by Z28 Boy (edited October 17, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Z28 Boy (edited October 17, 2000).]

91Bird305

AMEN MY BROTHER! FINALLY SOMEONE THAT SEES THE LIGHT! Why all u guys have to gang up on me anyways? All I say is that I don't like the LO3 and I think something bigger would be better and everyone jumps down my throat like I just said Mustangs would kill all our cars or Ford is better than chevy? Seriosuly guys. Lay off me. Look at Z28 Boy, he has a 350 LETS GET HIM!!! ZANT69 just said he is going to convert to a 350! LETS GET HIM TOO! Come on, thats just dumb. And Pablo. I tried making up to you. I sent you an e-mail and apoligized (shouldn't really have to, only speaking my mind) and what do u do? You turn your dogs loose on me, you close my threads and for what? Honestly. And now for my long time friend (and I am serious, we have known eachother for awhile) ONEFINE8T9. Enough is enough man. I hate fighting with you but when you make outrageous claims that the LO3 has the same intake as the LS1's and Heads and a Cam are just bolt ons and you can just bolt them on and ride off without any modifications to the prom,exaust or intake and high mileage cars will blow up with our mods. Just look at Tas's car. That will tell ya our high mileage cars don't blow up when modded. Just some of the stuff you say you should look into first before you say stuff. My 305 vs 350 thing is just an opinion. Your stating facts about stuff that aren't true. Enough is enough man. I am going home now, I won't be able to look at what everyone wrote to as in me and Z28 Boy's post until later. But lets just TRY and keep it REAL. Maybe some apoligze too. I will be the first to apoligze to anyone that is sick of hearing our little group fight and apoligze if I offend anyone by my posts.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html


[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 17, 2000).]

ONEFINE8T9

ok i didnt even read n e other posts yet, i just saw urs 91 bird. U R such a palsy. I didnt mean intake manifolts i meant exahaust. Think b4 u say something once in a while

ONEFINE8T9

OK now i have read everyones posts. I do see how the LSI and LO3 maniflots are different. I wassnt exactly sure of the differences i only knew that they are both maniflots and neither are headers. And y do u keep saying LO3 this and LO3 that. Its a small block chevy. Simple as that. I bet if it where LB9 u wouldnt be talking n e thing. But theyre the same motors. To me heads are a bolt on, I didnt mean to classify cam as a bolt on i just put it in the same sentance. Cam is not a bolt on it is a mod so everyone is clear on that....


Ill finish responding later guys i am kind of hungry

91Bird305

dude, I know its a small block chevy. a 350 is a SBC but I am talking about the LO3. Not all the SBC. And I am not talking about the LB9. I am talking about the L03. Honestly man. Didn't u read my last post? And if u think heads are just bolt ons. Last time I remember, bolt ons were 5-10hp mods or mods that were simple to install. I didn't know heads were so easy to install. Anyone hear about that? Heads being easy to install? Gee, this is no surprise. I write a post that has nothing to really do with any negetive comments and look what happens? Eric is attacked once again for talking about 305's! No f_cking surprise at all. I know if I was the one saying, "you can just bolt on heads and install a cam and off you go, no other mods are needed" or "the exaust manifolds on 305 TBI's are the same as the LS1's" that all you people would be jumping at my post saying, "your dumb, you need this and you need that" but nope. Nothing comes up. Only person was Brian. Not Pablo, not Tas, none of the usuals that love to try and correct me when I'm on here or start crap like they do with me. Surprise, but when I post all of a sudden there is a rebultle about what I said. Wow, I just love it. So once again, this is a non-provoking message. I just wanted to get some stuff off my chest about how I have been treated around here lately and u can see in the posts how things have been. 3 against 1 constintly me always being wrong just about an opionion of engine. Hmm, glad to hear no one on this board has opionions anymore. Everyone just stay off here if you want to express an opinion. Thats not what this board is for.

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 17, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 17, 2000).]

Tas

you want opnions? its my opinion you can't comprehend that people can't do $2000 engine swap because they feel like it. But maybe they can do $550 head swap and turn an LO3 into a 305 Vortec. Why throw away a block, crank, pistons, rods (i.e. a shortblock) away for a 20HP differance? Your 350 vortec is 250 in the trucks and the 305 vortec is 230 HP. well?

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS6

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz
ICQ 82881207

ONEFINE8T9

ok 91bird i thought we where clear on the fact that heads and cam where more than bolt ons. And excuse me about my mistake on manifolts. I cant know everything. I am not a walking chiltons. The thing is bird, u have to bring down the LO3 and when someone wants to mod it or keep it and do something worthwhile to it u seem to get extremly offended and start bashing 305s all together. I for 1 am getting annoyed with it. Dont try to act like u never said n e thing offenceive. U r not mr innocent, I am not wither but who really cares n e more. Like i last said on the superchargeing post lets just end this. Bird me and u have been friends for a little while now so lets try to act like it and not bash eachothers opinion or rides. I am gonna think what i am gonna think and u will do the same so lets just get on with it. So is this retarded feud over???

ONEFINE8T9

BTW tas what r u talking about vortech 305, is that something i can do and how, what are the HP/tq ratings and where can i get the heads. How much to? thanx

91Bird305

I think modding ur LO3 is fine. Hell look at my engine. But putting heads, cam and things like that on it I think is a waste of time. Ok Tas, you have a 230hp engine and u spent 550.00+the time it took u to put them in. Sweet. You still get beat by a stock L98. So thats not much for show. I want a V8 that will run with the big dogs of today! Not something that will beat the 245hp of a L98 or some LO3 with 170hp. I want something that I know I can pull up next to a LS1 and say "lets run em" and know that I stand a good chance. With a vortech 305, I don't stand a chance, with a LO3 I don't stand a chance at all. So you do all this work to a LO3 and you can't even run with stock LT1's or LS1's. Thats why I say the things I do about the LO3. I want REAL POWER. I want an engine where I can put a label even on the side of my ram air vent and be proud its in there. Cause I don't know anyone that has LO3 on the cowl hoods or ram air hoods do u? Thats what I am talking about guys. Look at the stuff I have done to my LO3. The only things left to do would be a AFPR, bigger TB unit,intake,heads a cam and custom prom. I don't want to do them because I know I won't be pushing with the stock LS1's or modified LT1's and for what? Look at all the work I did to it. Thats why I don't waste my time with heads and etc... and thats why I don't think anyone else should because I don't want to see them waste there time and money on something that they can say, "well its fast for a 305 and I can beat an L98 now" I want to get out of the 200's and go for the 300's (horsepower) cause thats where the real fun is at cause thats where the 13's are! Join me to the 13's! well u don't have to, its your choice. But I want an engine that people will talk about in the future on horsepower TV and Classic Car. I don't thik we will be seeing the LO3 in any of those shows. (well horsepower TV does have that firebird) Anyways, so it is up to you, these are my opionions. Someone can go ahead and build up there LO3. Thats fine with me if they want to do that. Tell us how it runs and what the 1/4 mile time is when u do so we can see if its worth it. But I am stopping with my mods cause most of my mods are swappable to the 350 I want right now and if I was to start getting into my engine it would be a waste of money for ME because I couldn't swap those old mods onto the ZZ4 that I am getting. Know what I mean?

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 18, 2000).]

avro206

You know this thread started out about the hp
and torque of the LO3. They were slightly underated (174hp 266lbs-Hot Rod dyno test).
I applaud people who build up 305s, they are unique but I can understand the appeal of the 350. 'Nuff said.

------------------
88 IROC the best RS ever made!
well except for the B4C

ONEFINE8T9

91BIRD i respect ur opinion but what makes u think that u cant get a 305 n/a to 300+ hp. On a fresh motor with good heads cam and some fine tuning it is very possible to run with the big dogs. Now picture this.... say u put heads, cam, tbi unit, custom prom and a good intake on ur LO3. All of the sudden ur pushing almost 300+hp. Take a supercharger to that. Lets say a minimal 40% increase. Thats a 120 hp increase. So now that LO3 is pushing close to 400hp. IT may sounbd a little outlanded but think about it....

91Bird305

Ok thought about it.......HAHAHA! Ok man, u find me a LO3 that is pushing 300hp+ (runs in 13's) and I will give u a cookie ok? Seriously. Why do u think the LO3 has THAT MUCH potential? I mean, yeah it can be made into a great engine but 400hp! I don't think so. Hell, look at Blown 305 TBI. Guy has a blower on his LO3 and he is only pushing 14.56! Hell, he is in mid 14's with a blower! U think a cam and some aftermarket heads that he will be 400hp!? Dude, come on. Thats ridicolous. Hey, you can make these engines fast but not without dumping a sh*t load of money. Hell, you have to put a blower,headers,cam,heads and intake +custom prom if u want to get it into 13's and you aren't even sure if it will put u in 13's. I don't see anyone with an LO3 in the 13's. If there is someone please say so but post what u had to do to it to get it there. See what I am getting at is that in order to get the LO3 powerful you have to replace every damn thing on the block! Heads,cam,intake,exaust,prom,+ a blower! Geez man. If I added that onto a 350 I would be into 11's, low 12's and an empty pocket and your saying that all those will ONLY get u into 13's! Come on. 45 extra cubic inches DOES make a differnce. Why is this so hard to see?

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 18, 2000).]

Max

I'd like to think that I could build my LO3 to out run most anything on the street. But after giving it A LOT of thought I've realize that in the short term my money is best spent on things that will boost performance but can also be used in the long term if I decide to really take the plunge and go with a crate motor (350,383,400, whatever). In other words I'm looking at things like headers and true dual and even a new rear end with 3.73s or maybee even low resistance plug wires and a hot coil. These things will make it easier to live with the LO3 until I've got the cash to throw down on a new motor and they could all be used in conjuction with the new motor so I'm not wasting money on an engine that was never intender (ie engineered) to be a high performance motor.

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Black 1989 RS Convertible w/43,000 mi.
Excellent Condition
LO3 305 w/TBI
12 PSI Fuel Pressure
6* Timing Advance
Open Element 14x3 K&N
Hypertech Thermomaster
160 Degree Thermostat
Low Temp Fan Switch
Eddlebrock RPM Muffler
No Cat/No AIR Injection
B&M Stage 2 Shift Kit
17"x8.5" ATP 5 Spoke Alloys
P 245/45 Goodyear Eagle
HP Ultra Plus Tires
Lakewood Control Arms

Coming Soon:
3.73 Gears
Headmann Headers & Y Pipe
Lakewood Pan Hard Rod
MSD Wires and Coil

Tas

Gonna make a new post about the 305 Vortec.

91Bird305

EXACTLY Black 89 RS! Thats what I have been trying to say to these people but they get into an uproar when u say your getting rid of your LO3. Geez, like its against the law or something. hahaha. Tas, lets see what u have on the 305 Vortech. (not the LO3). Once again, i ask for the LO3 and I get a 305 Vortech. Great. I see everyone is reading my posts.

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

ONEFINE8T9

91bird i am getting real annoyed with this arguement already. If u cant get a N/A 305 in the 13s with the right mods than there is some serious problems. Drop a blower on a n/a 305 thats in the 13s and see what happens. If u cant see that than there is no sence even argueing with u.

BTW i didnt just say heads and cam, as a matter of fact i said almost everything except the shortblock. So when u quote me get it right...

91Bird305

Dude, leave me alone. Were done posting on this. Post something when u get your LO3 in 13's. Dude, u said it yourself, u have to put a damn blower thing in order for it to get there.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

ONEFINE8T9

Dude, leave me alone. Were done posting on this. Post something when u get your LO3 in 13's. Dude, u said it yourself, u have to put a damn blower thing in order for it to get there.

LMFAO man u kill me LMFAO

RP1987GTA

Somebody SLAP ME

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89RS 305 stock, runs a minus time in the quarter....never under estimate the power of a stock LO3..... i've gotten mine to lay rubber...dam tranny mount!

[This message has been edited by RP1987GTA (edited October 19, 2000).]

91Bird305

Stop laughin and start trying to prove your point with a time slip intead of hp estimations.
::Slaps RP1987GTA:: There ya go.


------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

Zant69

Hey, I didn't mean to start all this.. I just wanted to know what the stock HP was. I know that I am now VERY discouraged about My third gen... about ALL third gen's... I'll never have any real HP... not without spending a fortune... and I already spent a fortune on this stupid car when I bought this 91' in 94'... (by the way- it ain't worth ****, now) I have already sunk so much money into this car...buying it, modding it, etc... and I don't even have ONE of the fastest cars on the road. I think the LO3 cars have their place.. when I bought this car in 94', I didn't really care about HP and stuff... I just wanted one because they were SO awesome looking. I fell in love with the IROC's when I was in high school and had always wanted a third gen.. power was not a concern for Me. But, later on I started getting into power mods (after alot of embarassing races in the street) Now, I find out that an LO3 isn't even worth modding.. My "dream car" isn't so dreamy, anymore.. thanks for the info..

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Everything I know I learned by messing it up at least once.

Tas

why isn't it worth modding? Most mods go straight onto a 350+engine when you want to do it.

RP1987GTA

Buck up Zant69...wanna buy an old edsel?

------------------
87GTA,350,Auto,MAF screens removed,195 thermostat,cold start injector UNPLUGED,K&N,modified air intake,ADSchip,3:73s,3inch cat back Flowmaster single outlet,TPS.54,Bosch Plat plugs,base timing 6BTDC,22 MPG and runs like a bear,Bilstiens in the rear....,don't let yer meat loaf

91Bird305

Wow, someone that actually realizes how slow the LO3 is. A lot of the people on here obviously have never rode in LT1's or LS1's cause they seem to think 14's and 13's are easy to get to with these engines. (just look at the posts above for my point or other threads) Hey man. Cheer up. Hold onto it man if it isn't worth anything. Just save up for some sort of crate engine 350,383,400 ets... Convert to carb and you will have something to show! No flame intended, I just think if they use carb on the engines to dyno them then that must be the best injection system performance wise.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html


[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 19, 2000).]

Tas

ya my friends modded 95Z is sweet. he let me drive it. I'd need Baer brakes for sure to slow that beast down.

ONEFINE8T9

ya nice job in proving ur point 91bird.Arent we supposed to be helping people with thier cars? not telling them useless info about how thier motor isnt fast. I know thats what this board is all about, shattering peoples dreams of thier cars. I bet u feel like a real winner now huh.

BTW as a matter of fact i drove the 99trans am. YES I DROVE IT. it was a 6spd with LSI 350. So dont fu*ing tell me how 13s feel

ONEFINE8T9

ya nice job in proving ur point 91bird.Arent we supposed to be helping people with thier cars? not telling them useless info about how thier motor isnt fast. I know thats what this board is all about, shattering peoples dreams of thier cars. I bet u feel like a real winner now huh.

BTW as a matter of fact i drove the 99trans am. YES I DROVE IT. it was a 6spd with LSI 350. So dont fu*ing tell me how 13s feel