I just took out the 180 thermostat out of my 92 RS cause it seemed to be overheating or building up a lot of pressure in the radiator to the point where the top hose blew off. I thought it might be because of a stuck thermostat so i took it out and the car seems to be running nicely and very cool. (about 120-140) I was wondering what the side effects are from taking out the thermostat if any? I would like to keep it this way.

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88 305TBI
Mods:Hooker Aerochamber 3" exhaust, gutted kitty, March pullies, no smog, 180 thermo,
14x4 K&N, 3.42 gears,
Eibach springs with KYB's all around,
Harwood cowl hood, Z-28 wing, fresh paint(black)
120,000 miles, 5spd, T-tops
Run a best of 16.7 @85mph before gears

92 RS, 305TBI, auto, 3.08 gears, 180 thermo, glasspack (no muffler)

 

Your car was mad to run at at least 180 to 195 degs. When you run it to cool it won't allow the computer to function properly. There is also a risk of over heating when the weather gets hot. Your alot better off fixing the problem and running a thermostat.

Steve

 

well, for one, you wont have a thermostat.

really though, its there for a reason, i'll bet that your fan alone will not be able to keep the car at its correct temperature this summer because the coolant will be flowing to quikly accross the radiator so that it wont cool as much as if it were flowing slowe with a thermostat.

 

You need your stat. If you run cooler than 150 degrees then you will be in the "open loop?" I think I never can remember which is which.

Your oil won't flow as good.

You won't have heat when you want it.

And many more problems.

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1989 Pontiac Firebird Formula LO3 Auto
-180 degree stat
-Hooker Cat-Back
*****Possible summer '01 mods*****
Open Element, Auburn Posi, Keyless Entry, wonder Bar off the IROC, 4th gen seats, T/A tail lights

1985 Camaro IROC-Z LB9 Auto
http://www.geocities.com/krt80/

[This message has been edited by Keith5 (edited February 11, 2001).]

 

well i put a 160 in my ta and it would not get over 145 degrees. Before i put it in i was getting 26 mpg now i get 19. The computer keeps it in warm-up run rich mode(open loop i think) It will miss and wastes gas. If you are running ok now it was a stuck stat. Today i put in a 180 in mine and it runs a hell of a lot better and gets to about 165 degrees

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1985 TransAm BLK/GLD Stock
1985 TransAm BLK/BLK
305HO (soon as it is put in) 5-speed, 3.27 posi, WS6, power everthing.
http://www.geocities.com/bullfrawgs

 

well with my 180 thermo and my 1 fan wired to always be on it was at 1 line below 220* probably 210*. Now with my 160* it stays from 150* to 160*. I like it and I don't think its too cold. haven't noticed any gas differece but it seems torquier.

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-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6
[soon to be Torch Red with black hood and headlights =) ]

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz
ICQ 82881207

 

Tas yours got warm enough, I think 150 is the temp it needs to get to, to work right.

Mine never got over 160, i thought the stat might be stuck, so I put in the 180.

It still hardly ever gets over 160, only on a warm day after I have been running on the highway and I slow down to under 25 or so.

I plan on changing the fan cut on temperatures this summer. It still hardly every gets over 160.

Lately it's been getting warmer than before it hits 170 on a regular basis now, I replaced the water pump with a cheap $22 one. That might be the cause.

[This message has been edited by Keith5 (edited February 11, 2001).]

 

we replaced the radiator and took out the thermostat last summer in my 91 RS L03. hasn't run a tick over 160 yet, and no side effects at all. if it's any help i live in NW florida, where it gets way hot in the summer also the car use to over heat in our traffic here(taking them forever to widen the road) so it'd be 95 degrees out side and we'd have to have the heater on to keep from over heating.....i'm glad we got it fixed

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1991 RS LO3
mods: 14" chrome air cleaner, straight-piped after cat exhaust with one chrome dual tip on the left side.
future mods: headers, removing smog equipment, and as many cheap mods as i can find
aol s/n: budman8503

 

Do not run without a thermostat. Running a low temp thermostat is preferable to running none at all. First off, solve the overheating problem by correcting the problem itself. Is the chin spoiler (just below the radiator attached to the lower radiator suport) in place and undamaged. You need this to force enough air into your radiator. Also, what is the condition of your radiator? If you haven't been running a proper coolant mix then it could be clogged with minerals or worse yet rust. A radiator flush will cure a lot of that. Also look for debris between the radiator and the a/c condenser. Our cars are notorious for sucking up leaves, shopping bags, etc. between them. Take loose the black cover at the hood latch and blow it out with an air nozzle. All cars need a little HEAT especially our TBI equipped oned to properly atomize the fuel. Without the heat the fuel will tend to remain more liquid form and wash out past the piston rings contaminating the oil. You will notice the reduction in fuel economy, but won't recognize the increased contamination of the oil with volitles. Then later, when you take a long trip on the freeway you will wonder why you burned 2 quarts of oil in a 500 mile trip. Yet on the return trip (if you even bothered to check your oil after the first leg and top it off) you will find the oil consumption to be normal, or wouldn't use any. WTF? You didn't lose the oil, or really burn the oil, but only burned off the voiltles contaminating it. Please do yourself a favor and fix the problem correctly. Or it will cost you a LOT more in the near future. Good luck, Lon.

 

same problem i had! i found out i was missing my air dam. You know that pain in the *** body piece that sticks down under radiator bracket.(30 dollars dealer} I still wanted it cooler after that so i rigged electric fan to syay on all the time. Its stored winters so heater is not of issue. Also lowest stat i could get. I can beat the **** out of her and she will not go over 220 degrees, cooler means more hp! goodluck!

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88 camaro rs convetible 92 rims / flowmaster/ hypertech chip/ 3.73 gears/tbi spacer/open elemnt/hollowed cat/shift kit corvette servo/k&n filters/holley tbi unit/nox squeeze/future mods 350 with 400 crank/sub frame conectors

 

If you don't run a thermo, your piston to cylinder wall clearances, as well as others (ALL bearings, valve train adjustment, etc) will not operate at proper values and cause premature wear. This holds more so for engines operated with higher temp thermos in for quite some time, of course... I mean 50k miles with 195 thermo and then just take it out, or put a 160 in for that matter... Not good!!!

Not sure if you guys have tried this but I have found that the high-flow thermostats actually do work. Make sure they are the real HIGH FLOW variety and have the MUCH bigger flow area and the different look to them. they are in summit but most parts stores have them now. worth the extra buck or two. I think Robertshaw makes them in my local store. I have never had to use lower than a high flow 180 in a "normal" car with OEM style radiator. If you need lower thermo or no thermo just to stay cool, you have some sort of cooling problem, either radiator shot or airflow to/through radiator is blocked by something (air dam, driving lights, non-working clutch fan, to many blades on aftermarket electric fan(s)) or is being turbulated or somehow prevented from doing its job.

 

No thermo..Baddddddd. I did this over the summer for only a few days and the car ran like crap. I swapped in a robershaw from summit, the 160 high flow and it ran steady 160 never hotter never lower. It was dead on no matter what I would do. I even took her to the track and she was at a tick over 160 after 3 runs. I also have my fan always on. That wasn't too smart because one day in super morning traffic the fan quit and the car went right up to 260 and I was so pissed. The fan was moving but it was so slow. Got a new fan motor and the thing buzzes great. Really though, get a thermo in that as soon as possible. I figure the robershaw was only $9 so I'd go with them. They also break OPEN which is an extra safety measure.

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, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list), getting new engine in summer

 

Thanks guys, i'm definitely putting it back on now as soon as possible. It was at a constant 105-110 yesterday when i took a trip to g/f's house.

 

I just put a 160 thermo in there and the car runs at 145-160 now and doesn't go over 160. I guess my problem might have been hose not clamped on right onto the radiator.

------------------

88 305TBI
Mods:Hooker Aerochamber 3" exhaust, gutted kitty, March pullies, no smog, 180 thermo,
14x4 K&N, 3.42 gears,
Eibach springs with KYB's all around,
Harwood cowl hood, Z-28 wing, fresh paint(black)
120,000 miles, 5spd, T-tops
Run a best of 16.7 @85mph before gears

92 RS, 305TBI, auto, 3.08 gears, 180 thermo, glasspack (no muffler)

 

Yeah, Robertshaw = good...

 

i ran my car without a thermostat fro about two months. It will run a hell of alot better with a thermostat. without one, i my computer was not using readings from the o2 sensor, and it was also giving me a trouble code for egr valve. i put thee stat in and now the car is running like butter.

 

I guess mine was built on a wednesday because I drove 45 miles to the drag strip @ Ennis and then hot lapped the car six times then drove it back home and it stayed at a few ticks below 160 deg the entire time. I got rid of it becuase my thermostats kept messing up by sticking shut. I went through four in a week's time and just said forget it. I haven't had any problems with the engine and it pulls fine. If the computer is retarding the timing I can't tell. It still runs as strong as when I did the rebuild in it.

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1988 Camaro
305 bored .030 over
Stock TBI
Aluminum radiator
No smog pump
gutted factor cleaner
cam ground to crane specs
timing advanced 9 degrees
no thermostat
other than that its bone stock and ran a 16.4 @ 82 mph with earth shattering wheel hop and a 2.88 60 ft time. (this was with the rebuild and cam only)

 

Racer J: Robertshaw thermo's break open so you'll notice that your car isn't warming up and it's a thermo problem. The funny thing is that they don't break. About the sticking problem, I'd put the water/cl ration to 60:40 or even 75:25, there should be no reason for not running a thermo. Another thing you might want to do is flush the system out just incase you have a clog in the water jacket that is making it "stick" when a thermo is in. Another trick is to drill a few small holes in the thermo so no hot pockets form in the engine. From experience no thermo is going to be the reason for you premature engine failure. No cat converter... I'm crying. I give pardon to only weekend racers at englishtown that don't have a cat. I'd really like to see the difference of hp with and w/o cat. Probably not much since muffler is the real problem area.

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, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list), getting new engine in summer

 

I run the 75/ 25 ratio with watter wetter and I have flushed it so many times I think the engine is going to corrode away LOL. I will probably look into the robert shaw thermostat though because Ive benn hearing about the premature failure recently. The car is down to a broken tranny right now so I have time tyo check it all out. Also the car is pretty low (I bought it that way not realizing it) so the exhaust basically broke off. Right now the car is basically dumped at the end of the y-pipe since that is where it broke off at. I dont know bout HP gains but there were a lot of cars around here that couldn't hang with the car through 1st and 2nd after the cat and muffler came off. Don't get me wrong a muffler is going back on. I mean it sounds cool but I dont want to loose my hearing over it lol. But in my oppinion the cat hurts torque and I wont put one back on the car.

------------------
1988 Camaro
305 bored .030 over
Stock TBI
Aluminum radiator
No smog pump
gutted factor cleaner
cam ground to crane specs
timing advanced 9 degrees
no thermostat
other than that its bone stock and ran a 16.4 @ 82 mph with earth shattering wheel hop and a 2.88 60 ft time. (this was with the rebuild and cam only)

 

Your car was designed for, and calibrated to run at temperatures much higher than 160. To the ecm, 160 degrees is still warm up mode, gas mileage will suffer, longevity decreases, and you wont get any performance gains. I was running a 160 for a long time before i knew anybetter. Have a 180 now.

the thermostat isnt whats making your car run hot if it is running hot, check your airdam, fan operation, and coolant mix. I personally dont run any coolant, just water with a bottle of waterpump lube and anti rust as recommended by the stewart water pump people
I also blocked the bypass hole in the block, and drilled some holes in the t stat to compensate. Just something to consider

 

The reason you drill two small holes in your thermostat is not to flow coolant and/or avoid air pockets. It is to equalize the pressure around an OEM type thermostat so that it opens when the correct temp is reached instead of havning to open against the pressure of the water pump.

 

Thanks FastBroker, I wasn't sure exactly so I just posted what I've heard on the general/tech board. Too all you non cat daily drivers, read this:<a href="http://www.howstuffworks.com/catalytic-converter.htm">catalytic-converter</a>
No respect given to those without a cat sorry but that is my opinion.

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, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list)
Dale Earnhart, you have done so much, you will be missed.

 

Ok guys I know I need to run a thermostat I've always known but they ALWAYS stick shut on me. I don't feel like replacing the thermostat two or three times a week. All the other stuff is fine its just the thermostats keep screwing up. I don't know why.........wish I did though.

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1988 Camaro
305 bored .030 over
Stock TBI
Aluminum radiator
No smog pump
gutted factor cleaner
cam ground to crane specs
timing advanced 9 degrees
no thermostat
other than that its bone stock and ran a 16.4 @ 82 mph with earth shattering wheel hop and a 2.88 60 ft time. (this was with the rebuild and cam only)

 

Newer Cars with emissions controls run "hotter" to help keep emissions low your "stock" thermostat is 195 degrees.

By default The ECM's prom chip is programmed to go into closed loop mode (where is uses the O2 sensor to calibrate A/F ratio) at 160 degrees. at WOT the O2 does nothing and ECM goes back into open loop.

You want your car to run between 160-180 degrees for optimum performance. running too cold means the car never goes into closed loop.

At the very minimum install a new 160 degree thermostat. Check your air dams under the front. make sure you you still have the one mounted under the radiator cross member.