First, I installed the Edelbrock TBI intake manifold, and with my fuel pressure raised a little bit and about 12 degree timing advance, i noticed a lot more power at the lower end, up to about 3,000 rpm. From there it seems like the stock manifold. Secondly, I installed an MSD ignition with MSD 8.5 wires and Blaster 2 coil, and to tell you the truth haven't noticed much of a difference at all. I will be getting a gtech next week so i'll keep you guys posted as to what my times will turn out. I'm so mad that after all these mods I still lost to my brother's Jeep by about half car length. Can't wait for my headers to get here.

------------------
Pat Hirsz
www.iit.edu/~hirspat/MyPage2.htm
88 305TBI
Mods:Hooker Aerochamber 3" exhaust, gutted kitty, March pullies, no smog, 180 thermo,
14x4 K&N, 3.42 gears(open), Ultimate TBI Mods,AFPR,MSD(ignition,coil&wires),Edelbrock TBI Manifold,
Eibach springs with KYB's all around,
Harwood cowl hood, Z-28 wing, fresh paint(black)
120,000 miles, 5spd, T-tops,slp headers on its way

92 RS, 305TBI, auto, 3.08 gears, 180 thermo, glasspack (no muffler)

 

i think you are running too much timing... If i were you id back it down to somewhere between 4 and 8.. and bring the fuel pressure back to stock

 

That's good news. I plan on doing almost the same thing but not as much adjustments on the timing. I figured that would help raise the power output from the block going into the headers

------------------
92 Camaro RS LO3, 5-spd, T-tops
Performance:
SLP 1 3/4" Headers (Coated by Paul Barry Motorsports), Flowmaster Catback Exhaust, Fastchip Performance PROM, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch, Xact 8mm wires, Open Air Element w/K&N Filter, Z28 Grille w/aftmkt fog lamps
Electronics:
Alpine 8030 Alarm System, Valentine One Radar Detector (How did I ever drive without one?), Pioneer DEH 7450 Head Unit w/6-pack CD changer, Pioneer DEQ 7600 Sound Processor, 2 Kenwood KAC-846 Amps powering 2 12" Pro Red subs, 2 Pioneer 6x9 and 2 MTX 4x6 speakers.
NEXT UP: TBI mods, Edelbrock performer intake

 

What kind of Jeep does your brother drive??

 

If he has a Jeep Cherokee with the 5.9 than he has his work cut out for him. Those things are rockets. They are getting good with big vehicles and drivelines. Just look at BMW's X5 that has a 4.4v8 and can run to 60 in 6.5 seconds!!! We all have a lot of work to do


------------------
1990 RS 305 TBI T-5
.5" turbocity spacer
Summit 14X3 OpenElement W/k&N
Custom Exhaust
MSD - Wires, Cap, Rotor, Coil
Bosch Platinum +4 plugs
Metallic Red w/26,000 miles

 

Bring his FP back to stock? Thats counter productive.

And thats good it boost low end torque. Because I was planning on the same manifold and after my L98 cam swap I lost a bit low end but gained a BUTTLOAD of top end!

------------------
L98 w/ ATI ProCharger P600B 9psi, 2 core intercooler. (New L98 coming soon)
Pro-Built Stage 3 700-R4 w/ Continental 2400 stall TC
C5 wheels and tires.

92 Firebird Convertible- L03, 700-R4
Bone Stock
Me, my car and I
"Speed kills but it makes me feel alive" - White Zombie
Crazy street-racing idiot member of the All-Powerful Nor-Cal crew.

 

No, not really, stock GM programming is rich at wot from the factory contrary to popular belief (and my own former belief) I know better now and now you do too.

 

He drives a 98 Jeep Cherokee, 2 door, no options at all, 4.0L Inline 6, stick shift. He used to beat me by a few car lengths when i first got my car, and just a few days ago we raced about 10 times because i kept insisting that i can do better, and i lost every time by about 1/2 car length zero to 60 or 70. He raced a 92 mustang GT with gears and a shift kit, and he only lost by a car length. I've driven his jeep and it pulls really hard at the top end. I'll retard my timing and f/p a little right now and see how it goes on my way to work.

 

pablo is right about the fuel pressure thing. i only run 11psi and i actually hafta lower that to get the 350injecters to work.


lata
tim

------------------
91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.215@94.30 w/ 1.917 60'

Check Out The East Coast F-Body Nationals Home Page
www.geocities.com/njspeeder

My MAFB.ORG Home Page
www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=299

DSI Racing Home Page
www.geocities.com/foff667

 

LoL, I hate these engines, lost to a jeep eh? Well don't worry. Actually those MSD Boxes really don't do much for ours cars unless ur shifting at 6000 or above. Just thought I would let u know that may be the reason why u didn't notice anything. Plus, there none of those ignition stuff doesn anything for hp. Just throttle response.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

could it be that the reason why it seems to have so much low end is because the timing is so advanced? Id definately bring timing back to 4-8 like pablo said and see where youre at then. Afterwards play with fuel pressure.

------------------
91 RS W/carbed 350, Vortec heads, performer rpm, Comp cams Xtreme energy 224/230 duration and .477/.480 lift. BFG Drag radials. 3.42 posi,Corvette servoed 700r4, 3000 stallconverter. Edelbrock TES, 3inch cat, flowmaster with single 2.5 inch exit.
Best time yet to come
12's?? :crossthumbs:

This is a Pic of my car in race trim www.tbns.net/billyjay/camero.jpg

Yes I know how to spell camaro- so dont ask. I didnt make the link

 

Those 4.0 Jeeps can scoot!!! Good tranny ratios, too, that's why they can run well.

 

4.0 H.O. jeep got 180 and lots of TQ. I got the 4.2L in my '89 Wrangler.

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6
[soon to have Hooker 1-5/8" 50 state legal headers installed]

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz

 

That's what I had in my Wrangler, TAS. I say HAD 'cause I took it out in 1991! Pretty good little torque monster, though. Couldn't pull me and my 200lb friends and boat so I wigged out, sold the entire drivetrain to a dealer for $1500 and have never looked back!!!!

 

Ok, I told you guys wrong, my timing is actually around 16 degrees advanced when i checked closely yesterday. And i tried retarding it but when i disconnected the tan wire with a black stripe the car just dies. So i just did it without disconnecting the wire and it was about 12 advanced and the car run like crap. Could it be that i put the distributor in the wrong spot when i changed the manifolds? Why would the car just die after disconnecting that wire anyway? thanks for your help.

------------------
Pat Hirsz
www.iit.edu/~hirspat/MyPage2.htm
88 305TBI
Mods:Hooker Aerochamber 3" exhaust, gutted kitty, March pullies, no smog, 180 thermo,
14x4 K&N, 3.42 gears(open), Ultimate TBI Mods,AFPR,MSD(ignition,coil&wires),Edelbrock TBI Manifold, 195ltr/hr fuel pump,
Eibach springs with KYB's all around,
Harwood cowl hood, Z-28 wing, fresh paint(black)
120,000 miles, 5spd, T-tops,slp headers on its way

92 RS, 305TBI, auto, 3.08 gears, 180 thermo, glasspack (no muffler)

 

Pat, you checked your timing incorrectly. You are supposed to read the timing with the EST disconnected. When you read it with it connected, the computer is advancing the timing beyond base. With only 16 degrees with the brown connected i imagine that your base timing must be around 0 or even something after TDC which is kinda crappy.
This would also explain why the car stalls when you disconnect the wire.
secondly, dont try to adjust the timing with the est
do this
disconnect the est, and if the car stalls, move the dist a little counter clockwise and then try starting it again with the est disconnected. remember the car should be at operating temp to set the timing.
the car should eventually stay running. Check the timing. Im going to guess that you have your timing set very low. Advance it somewhere between 4 and 8. Tighten the dist hold down. shut off car , reconnect EST, and restart car and then you are done.

 

Just tried that, and no matter how much i turn the distributor (i tried counterclockwise first and then clockwise) the car will not start with the est disconnected. I tried as much as a 1/4 turn of the distributor both ways. Thanks for helping me out Pablo.

 

our cars are slower than six cylinder jeeps;now i am depressed

 

Its imparitive that you set timing with the est disconnected! Dont give up, start the car with est connected, advance timing way up to like 25 or something and then disconnect est and set timing correctly.....reconnecting the est when youre done. Your car will not run in good tune until you get this taken care of

 

Guys, his ignition module may be blown and not be able run on it's own, ie without the ECU signal that "runs" the module. Does he have trouble starting the car in general???

EDIT: Definately try what the above poster said, start the engine with ESC connected, then set advance to about 20deg+, then disconnect the ESC and set the advacne to 6deg BTDC or so. IF the car stall IMMEDIATELY after you disconnect the ESC terminal, you have a bad ignition module.

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited March 29, 2001).]

 

I would definetly check that out before anything else. Pull the number one spark plug, put your finger over the hole and have someone bump the ignition over a little at a time until you feel the air blow out the hole. This will let you know when the piston is at TDC and the rotor button should be pointing at the number one cylinder at that time also. If it isn't then your distributor wasn't put back in right. I had to do the same when I changed my stock manifold to a Holley Projection manifold.

Don't forget that even though you have a better flowing manifold, your heads and cam are still sorry. The heads aren't going to flow well above 4500-5000 and the cam isn't a high rpm cam either. The manifold helped on my 300hp 350 but my heads are still choking the engine at around 5100-5200 rpm and the cam is an LT1 cam. Like Pablo said drop the timing to around 4-8 when you get the distributor reading properly and the fuel pressure should only be aroud 11-12 max on the stock 305. I'm only running 14-15 with my 350.


------------------
1988 TA 300+hp 350 w/ TBI and Holley TB unit, Holley projection intake,
WC T-5, 3.42 gears w/ Auburn posi. MSD 6A, edelbrock TES headers, dynomax 3" cat and cat-back system, ACCEL coil, polyurethane bushings all around, aluminum driveshaft, Mr. Gasket open air cleaner.

1993 S-10 w/ 4.3L V6 TBI, slightly bigger cam, Mild polish job and 3 angle valve job on heads, Edlebrock TES headers, Dynomax cat back, MSD 6A, ADS chip

2000 Kawasaki KX 125

 

badbird88, is your chip on the 350TBI T/A stock? ...I mean from some kind of truck or haveyou installed custom chip? How big is the gas mileage in city/highway?

 

I wonder if the problem has to do with the MSD ignition that i have just installed

 

I did not know that MSD made 2-connector computer controlled distributors for GM's. Maybe the mdoule in it is messed-up, as I stated above...

 

It was the module! I can't believe it, i bought a new one a few months ago and that's why i didn't think that's what it would be. I put in the module from my 92 rs, and i was finally able to adjust the timing correctly. I bought the module from Super Track before, and this is definitely not the first time i have to return parts to them. Not to mention i got zapped by my Blaster 2 coil while adjusting the timing, ouch! The car runs great now, thanks

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

You are welcome...

 

88 camaro, now that you have the timing set correctly, does it perform better over 3,000 than it did before you changed the timing?
thanks..........bob

------------------
91 camaro RS L03 convert,
t-5, ultimate TBI mods,TBI spacer,SLP 1 5/8 headers,
3"cat back, 3.42 torsen posi,alston SFC's,Global West LCA relocation brackets, edelbrock STB

 

Not really, maybe a small difference, but not really noticable. I have to g-tech it again and see what happens.

 

I too am depressed to hear the news about getting beaten by a 6-cylinder jeep. A cherokee nonetheless. A wrangler I might be able to understand(light), but a cherokee? Don't feel bad, I got dusted by a Dodge truck. I was going to kill myself, but I decided to save some cash for a new engine. He wont be able to mess with my 350 HO that I'll be putting in. I'll have his Dodge P.O.S model for lunch.

[This message has been edited by PullmeoverRed (edited April 11, 2001).]

 

maybe it was a sleeper Jeep if you put a 4.2L crank in a 4.0L H.O. + a cam you get a 300HP 4.7L monster

 

+ exaust too

 

Just to clear things up, it was a stock 98 jeep cherokee,stick shift, (its my brother's) and they produce 190 hp stock, and are lighter then our camaros. Not much lighter, but they are lighter. Our camaros have more torque, which would explain why i was running even with him at the start, but he took me on the top end. I was beginning to slowly catch up to him in third gear (probably my cowl hood starting to take effect), but then we had to slow down. And i bet my top speed is better then his. I might be able to take him in the quarter. I'll give him my gtech to test it out when i go home this summer.

 

My Jeep has 3:55s stock. My Formula has 2.73s(like most of us do or did). That probably made a differance too.

[This message has been edited by Tas (edited April 11, 2001).]

 

But it was a JEEP TAS! A JEEP! LoL, face it guys...these cars are slow as dirt. I mean, the fastest one we have on our board runs a 14.2

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

14.2 on stock cam

 

My Grand Cherokee is a sleeper like you read about... Well, the 295/50/15's in the back give it away a bit...

Wrangler would be a sleeper if it didn't shake the ground.

 

I just put my manifold on too. I should be going to the track soon so I can play with the timeing and run it with and without the Tbi spacer. I will post my times so everbody can see if there are any diffences.

------------------
92 Firebird
305TBI, Edl.Tbi Perf.Manifold, Full exhaust, air intake, 16" wheels, Tbi spacer

 

dont worry im sure you could beat my 79 jeep cj7 with the 4.2 (258). that thing barley makes it up hills

------------------
89 Camaro Rs
-Stock Tbi 305 with a lot of damn miles
-Edelbrock Z28 TES Headers
-3 inch Catco High Flow Cat
-3 inch Edelbrock Catback
-14x3 Summit Open Element Air Cleaner

Stereo
-Pioneer DEH-P4100 cd player
-Polk Dx9 6x9s

79 Jeep Cj7

 

I beat a miata with my 4.2. I saw him in the far right lane, me in the far left. He was trying to get ahead because there were cars parked ahead of him if he didn't get over. I saw him rolling back and forth like me, so I reved on him. It was sooo funny. I beat him pretty good . I love my 2 chamber Flowmaster on my 4.2L.

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Soon to be installed:
Hooker 1-5/8" 50 state legal headers, Dynomax 3" I pipe (PN 44063 and 43248), Catco 3" cat, and injector spacer.

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz

 

theres some performace exhaust leaks on mine

 

I just got done adjusting the timeing on my 90 RS tbi. I could not tell you where the timeing is at because the timeing marks are all rusted from the good old chicago winters. how i did it was i hooked the timeing light to the battery and spark plug wire no.1 and turned the distributor. I dident unplug anything, just did it the old fasion way. Then I drove it. Found out where I liked it and kept it there. Some of you people are going to tell me that i did it wrong. But last summer this car was beaten by a 4 banger chrystler mini van. And now it will throw you back in the seat. Not bad concidering all i did was bolt on a edelbrock air cleaner. with a edelbrock tbi intake to come later this spring.

 

Sorry for bringing my old topic back, but i finally got a chance to go back home to NJ and test my brother's Jeep on a G-tech. It is still completely stock and we got a best of 7.1 in 0-60. It was running low 7's consistently. I just thought that was pretty amazing and don't feel so bad for loosing to him all the time before i put my headers in. I have finally been able to beat him by a pretty good amount after my header install. p.s. The same exact jeep is rated at 8.5 sec. 0-60 from the factory, just goes to show you how underrated they are.