titchener

I have a '91 Caprice wagon with a L03/305. I'm going to be replacing it with a 383 while keeping the TBI to pass smog. I'm going to need to reprogram the chip for the 16136965 ECM and I figure the best .bin file to start with would be from a 350 equipped 91-93 9c1 cop car.
Does anybody have a copy of stock chip .bin file or least know the 4 letter code for it (for example my current chip is AXCU) so I can try to find a copy of it?

Thanks,
Paul T.

Dewey316

Paul,

I don't know that I would even bother using any chip like that. I would start off with a good spark table as a starting point, and then slowly just nail down the fuel. start it up, get the fueling at idle right, then propagate the cells around, then start driving at low RPM's, and just work on the table slowly.

titchener

Well I figured I have to start with something. My current only 2 choices are the L03/305 bin which is a particularly pukey one as it was a California smog car or a commericial chip I bought for the engine, which does run better but I don't see why some of the changes were made it it. Plus they are both for a 305 and a 350 bin would be a better starting point for my 383.

In addition there are some tables the control how the EGR is run and I'm thinking the 350 based ones would work better for a 383 than the 305 ones.

Paul T.

zipfast

iTrader: (2)

Ask and yea shall receive:
The 91 350 C is a cop car (Pa.)
The 93 350 C is a cop car
The 93 350 W is a stock wagon
And I tossed in a stock 91 305 non-California (land of Fruits and Nuts)

Enjoy

titchener

Zipfast, thanks a ton, I'm new to this so I'm sure I'll learn something just by opening those different bins up and looking at them. I like the Turner Pro function that lets you easily compare different bins.

I've been real curious about the difference between the Cal and non-Cal 305 bins (especially since the Cal one I have runs like crap, the commercial chip was actually a big improvement) so that's the first thing I'm going to look at.

Paul T.

titchener

Hey Zipfast, are you sure those files got zipped correctly, I've downloaded it twice and tried unzipping with 2 different zip programs but it says there is no content.

Thanks,

Paul T.

Drac0nic

opens up fine for me. Re-download it. Thanks for the bins, I've been thinking that the 9C1 bin would be a way better starting point for my 305 than the regular 350 bin.

titchener

Ok, I finally got them to open. DracOnic, you probably know this already, but if you are going to be swapping a 350 bin for a 305 bin and use it on a 305 motor be sure to change the BPW constant setting, on my 305 bins its set to 134 while the 350 bins have it set to 120.

One big difference I see so far in looking at the bins is that the 350 bins have zeros in the Main Fuel Table #2 from 800 RPM up thru 2800, so when you are looking at Main Fuel Table #1 you see the actual VE settings from 800 thru 2800 rpm. Definitely makes it easier to look at and modify VE settings, only the last 3200 RPM row in Table #1 has split values.

I still don't really understand why GM used this clumsy 2 table method as now it looks like even their own engineers zero'ed most of table #2 when making the 9c1 bins. I know they didn't want to use the memory it would take to make table 1 cover the full RPM range, but why didn't they have table 2 just start at 3200 and go up from there (which is effectively what happens with the zero entries they put in table 2)?

Paul T.

zipfast

iTrader: (2)

I'm glad you-all liked them.

On a side note you should be thinking about putting a TPI fuel pump in place of the stock TBI unit. Even on a stock engine.
I have noticed that the fuel pressure stays steadier at higher RPM's. The TBI pump just runs out of steam. Plus it's probally due for a new anyhow.

roadmasster

Hey zipfast,

Are you using TunerPro to read the 93W350BATJ.HEX, because it is giving me funny values and I'm really interested in looking at this one because it what my Roadmaster came with originally. I am using the $62 6965 XDF that Fast sent me.

titchener

Zipfast, can you put a TPI pump in or something like a Walpro 190 and still keep the stock regulator? I'm worried the stock TBI regulator wouldn't be able to handle the much higher pressure.

roadmasster, I can't correctly open the .hex format file either. Its appears to be in a different format. However I think my chip burner might be able to read it in as a .hex file and then save it back as a .bin format file, I'll give that a try tomorrow and post the .bin version back up if I can get it to work.

By the way, have any of you guys that are working on Caprices found a data logging program that works correctly? Winaldl will read some of the data but doesn't directly support the 16136965 directly and some of the MAP and temp data doesn't come thru right. TunerPro RT is supposed to log with this ECM but it has a problem and you get lots of errors, although the developer will be working to fix it in a couple of weeks.

Paul T.

roadmasster

Back when I was using the 6965 ECM I could get WinALDL to work most of the time using the 16144288 ECM type. But it would only give full data when the weather was warm and in closed loop. I tried using TunerPro for datalogging but it would work for a couple seconds, stop, then give outrageous values, stop, then work again. It was worthless.

Last March I upgraded to RBob's EBL which will data more than you can imagine and is by far the best investment I've made. Something you should look into investing in.

Drac0nic

Walbro 307M on a virtually stock 4.3L V6 no real problems here. Yeah, my fuel pressure drop seems to be significantly less with the 307M compared to the stock pump. Also feel a lot better knowing it's in there than a stocker with crazy miles on it that could leave me stranded.

What if I use cop car injectors with the 9C1 bin? The reason I was thinking it'd be closer is that I've got a 204/214 cam in my 305, ported TPI heads and a full headers/exhaust system. I suspect I'll be bumping the pressure even with 65s. I was thinking the 9C1 chip would be a closer match since it had a TPI cam in it not the peanut cam.

JohnBlazeLTZ

(Nice to see some B-Body people...not many around these here parts.)

Have you considered doing the 85 MM GM MAF sensor mod to the EBL like Fast355 has done on his G20 van? I like it because it gives you the flex-ability to do some more tuning tweaks/slight upgrades after the tune is nailed down and not so adversly effect anything to the point where you have to start all over again. I think you would find that it makes a nice upgrade to the EBL. I think it was Dimented24x7 that came up with that mod if I recall correctly...I couldn't find the thread.

BTW...what intake have you B-Body guys been using? I have the Edlebrock TBI and I am wondering if it is worth it vs. a 4 barrel intake and a TBI adapter. The stock intake is great down low but doesn't flow as good on the top end. From what I have read the Edlebrock is almost overkill on a stockish TBI system and since my cam (305 Peanut cam) is so weak...I don't think swapping over to the Edle. TBI intake would do a dang bit of difference.

roadmasster

Actually I've thought about it and will more than likely be next on my list of stuff to do. Right now debating on which gears to put in the rear. But I think that the MAF sensor would be a killer upgrade and something I'll have to research on more.

On my 93' Roadmaster I'm using the Weiand 7525 Single Plane I got brand new off the NAISSO forums last year. It is definitely a headache to tune without the proper equipment, a wideband O2 is a must, really helps tune the AE using the EBL's datalog. It also takes a lot of fuel to start the car on real cold mornings but I think it figured out with some new tips Fast355 gave me.

titchener

I tried reading in the 93W350BATJ.HEX file into my prom burner, which supports a couple of different .hex formats and then writing it back out as a .bin file but no go, TunerPro still reads it as garbage.

Zipfast, do you know what format that file was written to, there are apparently several different .hex formats?

DracOnic, to my best understanding with the changes your are making (204/214 cam, larger injectors) neither the stock 305 or cop car 350 bins will be very close to what you need and you will have to make some tuning changes no matter what. You might be right that the 350 bin is a better staring point, but the first thing I would do is get the BPW constant set correctly for your injectors, engine size and fuel pressure.

roadmasster, thanks for the tip on the EBL, it does look slick. My current plan is to learn as much as I can about EFI tuning with the stock 305 and its '965 ECM and then when I feel like I'm ready to handle it, swap in a 383 (I'm looking hard at GM's crate HT383) with an EBL system and have some fun smoking the imports around here with a big 'ol wagon.

Paul T.

rocko350

i would follow the suggestion to do the EBL setup first. there are so many more things in the 6965 that it really is a pain in the a$$ to mess with if ebl isn't possible right away, then repin for 8746. way better support and it seems to complete its internal data cycle faster. My 496 BB in my 91 loves me now that 8746 is in. next step for me is the ebl. then shortly followed by a th400. keep in mind mine is race only, but it definately was worth it. do full exhaust first if not done so already and tune for it then do gears, tune for them. its a vicious cycle. on the other hand a swap to a 4l60e and a pcm from a truck would make a huge difference right away. the control of the trans shift points and firmness is an invaluable tool.

zipfast

iTrader: (2)

Sorry I was out to lunch...

The 350 W just re-name from .hex to .bin

As for the TPI pump the stock regulator will still be set at 12 psi or whatever it's set at. Just make sure the pump kit has the high perssure hose (3-5 inch) the stock hose is soft rubber and would probally blow out at higher pressure. And get 2 small gear clamps.

JohnBlazeLTZ:
I'm using the stock intake bored out to 2" (454 TBI) and port matched.
I also switched to a EBL when it came out.
I'm about to build another engine and plan on using the Maf setup.
I'll probally stuff it in a 78 stepside the caprice is a pain with auto and headers.

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

Just for information's sake, the 9C1 prom is ANLU. I've got a zip of a ton of stock .bins, supplied by Jon Prevost years ago.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

The later 91-93 cars had larger 68# injectors, up from 65 and improvements in the exhaust Y-pipe. The PCM was also different and used a different prom than ANLU.

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

Definitely. I should have specified, the ANLU is only for the early ECM cars not PCMs.

I did not know that 91-93 had 68# and earlier were 65# I always thought it was just misinformation spread around because some people said the "cop car" injectors were 68 others said 65. That's interesting though, good to know.

kdrolt

ANLU is, I think, for 1989-1990 "brick" 9C1 copcar Caprice models.

There is another bin for 91-93 "whale" 9C1 copcar Caprice models (AYDP ?).

zipfast

iTrader: (2)

Ok the 91-92 cop car had the AXBF 9411 chip.
The 93 cop car had the AYDP 4631 chip, and a larger Y-pipe.
I labled them wrong, but the year, and bins are correct.
(Since I coppied them from my cars)

titchener

Zip, just to make sure I understand, you are saying that the file labeled:

91c350AYDP.bin

should be labeled:

91c350AXBF.bin

Correct?

Thanks,

Paul T.

zipfast

iTrader: (2)

I was going to edit the first post but the option wasn't there?

That is correct Mr. Paul T.
Any-hoo I re-named them, correctly C=cop car, S=stock, W=wagon.

I was looking at the Wagon bin and it may not have coppied right, once I rember where it's at I re-copy it, along with the latest 91 305 chip I got.