TBI Throttle Body Injection discussion and questions. L03/CFI tech and other performance enhancements.

3.1 TBI Project Update

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-24-2007, 10:51 PM
  #1  
Supreme Member

Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Fast355's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hurst, Texas
Posts: 10,011
Received 389 Likes on 332 Posts
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
3.1 TBI Project Update

Just an update on an old standby project of mine. Look back to project El Cheapo TBI for more details. Basically it was building a GM 3.1 V6 with ported heads and a mild cam. Well as luck would have it, I recently converted to the TBI PCM after learning how bad the factory tuning stunk. It killed the bone stock 200K mile 700r4 within the month. So whats a man to do. Put an electronic instrument cluster in it and a 1995 camaro 3.4 sourced 4L60E. I bought the transmission from a local auto recycler for $225. The rebuild kit came from autozone and was an autozone $130.00 special. I tore the old 700r4 apart far enough to obtain the 4x4 output shaft. I started to tear into the 4L60E, fully expecting to do a full rebuild. In the end I replaced the band, polished the drum, put the 4x4 output shaft, pan gasket, servo cover gasket and pump gasket. The rest of the transmission was spotless with nothing in the pan. The fluid came out a little dark, but not terrible. I put the last bolt in the pan as it was getting dark here. Tommorrow the transfer case comes apart to install the 40 tooth GM reluctor ring and the vehicle speed sensor.

The PCM and the 4L60E will vastly improve this truck (nothing like a 700r4 in something with high gears and not much HP that likes to hunt between gears) and I highly recomeend anyone that has some mechanical knowledge and a dead 700r4 that needs to be replaced to consider the PCM and the 60E. The only thing that I did to this 4L60E is crank the EPC solenoid 1/3 turn tighter. 1/6 of a turn is 12-15 PSI of line pressure. I raised the line pressure from the stock 190 PSI up to 215-220 PSI and added a spare V8 Van servo (same size as the Vette). It should bark the 1-2 shift nicely.

My brother and his buddy have been helping with this project. It is after-all his truck that he bought off my brother-in law. His buddy got a little excited at the end with all the rumbling from the open exhaust and the 224/224 @ .050 cam in the little V6. It idling about 1,200 rpm because it is stone cold after sitting for several days.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gNVs-_RzwFo

The first picture is the hardest aspect of the 700r4, the output shaft snap ring. Those thing are a PITA to remove and install. I had to remove it out of two transmissions and reinstall it in one today.

The second picture is of the lockup solenoid removed from the pump in order to remove the pump. The electronic shift valve body is plainly evident.

The last picture is the most recent underhood shot of the truck. I put a stock 4.3 S10 air cleaner w/fullsize van lid, used fullsize van K&N, and S10 intake duct on it today after it ran in the video. Picked it up in the wrecking yard for practically nothing. Should breathc much better than the stock 2.8 aircleaner which uses a snorkel 1/2 the size of the L03 and the little short, small diameter filter. It will breathe cooler air than the open element, which will be a plus.
Attached Thumbnails 3.1 TBI Project Update-100_1141.jpg   3.1 TBI Project Update-100_1143.jpg   3.1 TBI Project Update-100_1136.jpg  

Last edited by Fast355; 09-25-2007 at 12:56 AM.
Old 09-25-2007, 01:14 AM
  #2  
Supreme Member

 
RFmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: OC CA
Posts: 1,873
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Car: 75 Beast
Engine: 383 +EBL Flash
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 4.11 with 33"
Re: 3.1 TBI Project Update

Fast355
Aghhh I feel your pain - output shaft snap ring is a royal PITA. I tried to do a home rebuild on my 700 last year - shredded my hands on that casting flash line and gave up. Took it trany shop - let them have at it. You are so lucky - I had replace input drum and shaft. Original aluminium drum was shredded and metal flakes grenaded the rest of the tranny! Since I only paid only $150 (for 1990 core) at the swap meet - the guy was honest about it. Just watch out for very hard 1-2 shifts which will crack stock input drum at the shaft area.

Looks and smells like a lot of fun! GL!!!

//RF
Old 09-26-2007, 12:31 AM
  #3  
Supreme Member

Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Fast355's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hurst, Texas
Posts: 10,011
Received 389 Likes on 332 Posts
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Re: 3.1 TBI Project Update

In tonights edition, I will go over in more detail swapping in the 4L60E and the PCM.

I decided against the transfer case mounted reluctor ring and speed sensor. Instead, I ordered one from "Jags That Run" that mounts to the rear-end. It is externally mounted and meant for a 7.5" ring gear 10 bolt rear axle.

http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Par...ctor-Diff.html

I should mention that 2 wheel drive swaps can simply use the existing speed sensor mounted in the 4L60E. I had to switch because I had to put the 700r4 4x4 output shaft and transfer case adapter in place of the stock Camaro 4L60E equivalents. I decided not to tear the transfer case apart, pending availability of the transfer case reluctor ring (backordered at this time).

I wired the 4L60E today. I only had about 3 ft of wire from the PCM connections as they were cut right at the transmission. Walking past the rows of transmissions, I picked up a 13 pin connector that matches 4L60E with about 1 foot of pigtail on it. I had to make a harness that would work. GM changed the harness colors between the donor harnesses(PCM & Transmission ends from different cars), so that was fun. In the end, the transmission side of the connector had the same pin-out always, just different colors of wires. I constructed the two harnesses as closely as possible, but still ended up with some wires that changed colors in the middle, but oh well. They are all going to the right place though.

Not pictured is the DRAC that is mounted under the dash with some Zip ties. The DRAC will hook to the speed sensor, which will then feed the PCM, cruise control, and electronic speedometer (odometer too). Since my DRAC was from a 1993 Blazer that had 3.42 gears, I had to modify the DRAC by unsoldering the jumpers and installing a DIP switch assembly, not hard. My input ratio was 0.851756456194918. That is achieved by using the following DIP settings

Pin 1---Connected
Pin 2---Not Connected
Pin 3---Not Connected
Pin 4---Not Connected
Pin 5---Connected
Pin 6---Connected
Pin 7---Not Connected

http://614streets.com/drac.html

I drilled a 1/2" hole in the floorboard for the transmission harness to go through. The hole is getting a grommet as well as wire loom to cover it. The PCM will mount in the stock location of the ECM, on the same stock mounting bracket. My stock bracket had an Elapsed Timer Module (ETM) mounted to it and the DRAC will bolt right to it.

I also found the wire in the 4wd shifter that correctly runs the 4wd mode input on the PCM. Grounds the wire in 4wd Low and opens it in High modes.

The transmission went back in smoothly, without a hitch.

I also spent half the night last night making a .bin for a starting point on the 60E behind the little TBI 60* V6. Started from a 4.3 BIN and my old calibration and worked outward from there. I played with a gearing calculator, Desktop Dyno and Car Test Simulator to help determine shift points, both part throttle and WOT. The calibration should be reasonably close right out of the box. I know it already fires right up, idles and free-revs well.
Attached Thumbnails 3.1 TBI Project Update-100_1160.jpg   3.1 TBI Project Update-100_1153.jpg   3.1 TBI Project Update-100_1156.jpg  

Last edited by Fast355; 09-26-2007 at 12:39 AM.
Old 09-26-2007, 01:34 AM
  #4  
Supreme Member

Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Fast355's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hurst, Texas
Posts: 10,011
Received 389 Likes on 332 Posts
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Re: 3.1 TBI Project Update

Wiring Changes for the PCM

First you need the PCM (Red/Blue connections) and the connectors. You also need a tiny precision screwdriver to re-pin the connectors.

8746/6965 TBI Car to 427 Truck PCM

Old Pin----New Pin-----Color------------Function

A1--------F6----------GRN/WHT-------Fuel Pump Relay Control
A3--------F16---------DK GRN/YEL-----Charcoal Canister Purge Solenoid
A4--------E1----------GRY-------------EGR Control
A5--------E6----------BRN/WHT--------Service Engine Soon Light
A6--------E15---------PNK/BLK---------Ignition Feed +12VDC
A7--------(1*)--------TAN/BLK---------TCC/Shift Light
A8--------F9----------ORN------------Serial Datastream
A9--------A14---------WHT/BLK-------Diagnostic Test
A10-------F13---------BRN------------Vehicle Speed Signal
A11-------B3----------BLK------------Sensor Ground
A12-------A1----------BLK/WHT-------ECM Ground 1

B1--------E16---------ORN------------Battery +12VDC
B2--------B12---------TAN/WHT-------Fuel Pump Signal
B3--------A5----------BLK/RED--------EST Ref Low
B5--------A4----------PPL/WHT-------EST Ref High
B6--------?-----------PPL-------------VATS(2*)
B7--------(3*)---------BLK-------------Knock Sensor
B8--------E12---------LT BLUE--------A/C Clutch Signal
B10-------E5----------ORN/BLK--------Park/Neutral Switch

C1--------(4*)-------BLK/PNK---------A.I.R. Converter Solenoid
C2--------E7---------BRN-------------A.I.R. Port Solenoid (Diverter in trucks)
C3--------A7---------LT GRN/BLK------IAC "B" Low
C4--------A8---------LT GRN/WHT-----IAC "B" High
C5--------A3---------LT BLU/WHT-----IAC "A" High
C6--------A6---------LT BLU/BLK------IAC "A" Low
C7--------(5*)-------LT BLU-----------High Gear Switch (In Auto Trans)
C8--------(6*)-------LT BLU-----------Power Steering Pressure Switch
C9--------(7*)-------PPL/WHT---------Crank Signal
C10-------B8---------YEL--------------Coolant Temperature Signal
C11-------B13--------LT GRN----------MAP Signal
C12-------B9---------Tan-------------MAT Signal(8*)
C13-------A15--------DK BLUE--------TPS Signal
C14-------E14--------GRY------------5 Volt Reference
C15/D14--A9---------DRK GRN--------Injector "2" Control
C16------E13--------Orange----------Battery (Inputed in place of Brake Switch for TCC to function)

D1-------A2---------BLK/WHT--------ECM Ground 2
D2-------B4---------PPL-------------MAP Sensor Ground
D4-------F11--------WHT------------EST Signal
D5-------B2---------TAN/BLK--------EST Bypass
D6-------A12--------TAN------------O2 Sensor Ground
D7-------A10--------PPL-------------02 Sensor Signal
D15/D16--A16-------DK BLUE---------Injector "1" Control

Swap Notes

(1*)= Use E2 for a shift light on a manual transmission or E10 for the TCC on an Automatic
(2*)= Supported by the PCM if optioned in the Prom on an UNKNOWN pin
(3*)= A.) Wire like 1995 P30 Step Van, ESC Module output to B7
(3*)= B.) Wire like 1995 C10 Truck, Bypass ESC (Blue to Brown) and use Late TBI/TPI 305/350 Knock sensor
(4*)= Air injection into converter not used on trucks, but PCM has several other un-used outputs (Tuning Valve, Idle Kicker)
(5*)= Not Used by PCM (I like to leave the small connector in place and pin in unused wires)
(6*)= Supported by PCM if optioned in the Prom on an UNKNOWN pin (1994-1995 2.2 S10 Wiring Diagram anyone?)
(7*)= Not used by PCM, Remove 3 amp "CRANK" fuse from fuse box and store in small connector)
(8*)= Supported by the PCM, but functionality will need to be enabled in the Prom

6965 ONLY- Will have a NC relay that the computer grounds to shut-off the A/C compressor when the engine is heavily loaded. The A/C will work either by removing the wire all-togather, or connecting it to pin E3 (A/C Cut-Off or CPI Tuning Valve output)

I would also like to mention that the orange Serial Data wire needs to be relocated from the top row, Pin "E" to the lower row, Pin "M". You will also need to scan the vehicle like a 1993-1995 G-Series Van, C-Series Truck, S-Series Blazer, etc with Auto transmission.

Finally, this is a trick Haulin@$$ taught me, if you have a wideband and are looking to get real-time AFR put into the datastream, hook the 0-5 volt signal into pin B16 (Linear EGR pintle position feedback). With some adaption to the ALDL Definition being used to decode the reading, you can get an AFR reading of 10-20:1 or so.
Attached Thumbnails 3.1 TBI Project Update-aldl_connector.gif  

Last edited by Fast355; 09-26-2007 at 03:13 AM.
Old 09-26-2007, 06:45 AM
  #5  
Supreme Member

iTrader: (2)
 
dimented24x7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moorestown, NJ
Posts: 9,962
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
Re: 3.1 TBI Project Update

Originally Posted by Fast355
Finally, this is a trick Haulin@$$ taught me, if you have a wideband and are looking to get real-time AFR put into the datastream, hook the 0-5 volt signal into pin B16 (Linear EGR pintle position feedback). With some adaption to the ALDL Definition being used to decode the reading, you can get an AFR reading of 10-20:1 or so.
That works pretty well. The MAF code has that input dedicated just for the WB.

Another thing you might want to do is disable or tone down the adaptive modifier if your turning up the line pressure. Itll go ahead and turn it back down to try to get the lazy stock type shifts. The target shift times where kinda slow if I recall.
Old 09-26-2007, 10:15 PM
  #6  
Supreme Member

Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Fast355's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hurst, Texas
Posts: 10,011
Received 389 Likes on 332 Posts
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Re: 3.1 TBI Project Update

Originally Posted by dimented24x7
That works pretty well. The MAF code has that input dedicated just for the WB.

Another thing you might want to do is disable or tone down the adaptive modifier if your turning up the line pressure. Itll go ahead and turn it back down to try to get the lazy stock type shifts. The target shift times where kinda slow if I recall.
A.) I know and it does work GREAT

B.)Thanks for the tip on the adaptive shifting. I have put the shift time tables into my XDF and quickened them up more.

Today I installed the Fiero Valve covers that I found in the local wrecking yard yesterday. I also have the complete MPFI system from the Fiero as well.
Attached Thumbnails 3.1 TBI Project Update-3-2-.jpg   3.1 TBI Project Update-100_1186-2-.jpg   3.1 TBI Project Update-100_1187-2-.jpg  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Nick McCardle
Firebirds for Sale
1
09-10-2015 08:36 PM
rsrookie
Camaros for Sale
0
09-05-2015 07:08 PM
Billy Decker
Engine/Drivetrain/Suspension Wanted
0
09-04-2015 03:46 PM



Quick Reply: 3.1 TBI Project Update



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:23 AM.