hey guys well i finally got that melted wire problem down. i had replaced the relays and rewired it. the fuel pump turns on and works well. now i ran into another problemo.

soo i put starter fluid in the TB, car starts up instantly. turns off rite after all starter fluid is burned off. i syphoned out the gas tank. put in techtron and 2 gallons of new gas. still Nothing.

if i try to start the car, without starter fluid, it starts but it takes like 15 seconds of cranking, and turns over, but dies rite away.

what can the problem be? why am i not getting the car to stay started? the battery is brand new, the only other thing is.. that the car has been sitting for 3 yrs. ANY IDEAS? all will help thanx

 

Can you see the fuel spraying out the 2 injectors as you try to start it? If it runs whis starter fluid you arent getting fuel still. Have you replaced the fuel filter?

 

i didnt replace fuel filter yet, cuz i wanna see if i can clear out the dirty tank with the old filter, so i dnt have to replace it again.

i dont see the injectors spraying. they more look like a sink on low. i dunno what it can be, im stumped

 

IIWY I would remove the fuel filter and dump it out. If its all nasty then I would replace it . It could be that your filter is clogged rust and crud from sitting and not allowing enough fuel to get to your injectors causing the drizzle you explained.

 

hey guys changed the fuel filter and still nothing. im thinking i am getting no fuel pressure.

it takes like 10-15 secs of cranking till it turns over and then dies. any ideas? anything i should look over and check?

spark plug wires are new, havent changed plugs yet, dont know waht to use wit MSD IGNITION BOX 6a. distributor is stock hasnt been touch neither has coil

 

Verify fuel pressure. Go to the auto parts store and rent one. Stock TBI system requires 11 to 14 PSI. You are probably getting about 2 to 3 PSI due to clogged fuel sock or tired FP. Before dropping gas tank check fuel pressure at the TBI inlet to be sure.

//RF

 

i will be renting one tonite, thanx RF. and i will post the pressure. i 2nd that it is a fuel pressure problem. if it is a fuel pressure problem where do i start diagnosting or changing?

 

Hey guys new pics here. these are the ignition module, and the distributor. they were corroded like crzy, cleand them up a lil bit. what do u guys think? think this will stop the car from starting?

last pic is the coil. how do i test with a DVM to see if this thing is working proper? i tryed but i dont think i was doing it rite.

i have changed the plugs and wires, tested fuel pressure by taking off the inlet line the TB. it pumps out gas nicely. CAR STILL WONT START! what should i do? i stuck the injectors in a can of gas to see if they are gummed up and will be cleaned out.

 

KillaCamaro,

Check this link here it tells a lot about testing of the ignition coils, the magnetic pickup and other components of the distributor. I checked it out and used my DVM to do all the test. It definitely led me in the right direction but I still cannot get my rig to start. Hopefully this will help you. (It has tons of pics and details the various test you need to do)


Link:
http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us...rInfoPages.htm

 

'camaro

The link provided by wagon is very good (pages are straight out of factory manual). Regarding the contacts between pick-up coil and EST. Get some soda (from kitchen) and mix it with warm water plus old tooth brush to get most of the oxidation off. You can also use battery terminal cleaner to remove oxy off as well. Be very gentle when removing connector from pin. Do not pull by the wires or they will break off rather easily. Once you remove the two contacts (green and white wire) measure pick-up coil resistance - it should be between 500 and 1500 Ohm. East coast car are subject to a lot of moisture - we just do not see it here in southern desert until you get right on the coastline.

External coils are notoriously prone to fail - use link above and verify windings.

//RF

 

hey RF

I got the damn car to run.,IT WAS THE IGNITION COIL! changed it out wit an msd. going to get msd distributor this week. idles fine, but when i give it gas sounds like shyt. sounds like a tug boat. doesnt wanna move. what should i do now? its running but doesnt sound like a good grl, sounds like a tug boat

 

1991 camaro rs v6, car has always started immediately, today it tries to start but stumbles and dies, can't keep it running with pedal action either. jumped diag link and pulled code 54 only. Noticed when jumper is in place fan runs, is this normal? Fuel pump runs two seconds when key is turned as mentioned in other posts. Can I assume the relay and pump are good then, or could the relay still be affecting voltage necessary? Believe it or not I just finished replacing an in tank fuel pump in my volvo 850 and was glad the access panels were in the trunk! Not looking forward to dropping the tank, any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Your rotor button looked pretty shot so I am assuming your cap is pretty much the same. I'd clean it up a bit if your trying to save some cash and see if it runs any better until you get your MSD Dist. Your plugs are probably fouled up too from the lack of spark while you were trying to get it to run.

HTH Brandon

 

i replaced the plugs, im waitng on the wires, and the dist. also i got it started but it doesnt run great. sounds like shyt, and boggles alot. any ideas why it is running ruff.?? if i give it gas, its like a snail. and feels like its choking. id unno where to go now

 

camaro

Congratulations!


Well, now you have more work in front of you. Just take one step at time - assume nothing and question everything...

Let see what you have - does it idle nice and smooth or is it missing a bit. You need to set initial base timing once you get new coil in place. Do you know how to do that???

If base timing is not set correctly your engine may display lazy behaviour that you are describing. Did you check fuel pressure like you said you would??? Lack of fuel at higher RPM would starve your engine.. Take one step at time.

//RF

 

i dunno how to set hte base timing, my firend myte be able to he has everything.i will ask him to do it this week. snow here tomm so i dunno mb tuesday or wensday.

on the other hand, i have a new msd dist, wires, a brand new holley TBI 600CFM, new hedman headers and #in Y-pipe, already have 3in flowmaster exhaust, a/c delete, smogg delete, b n m shortshifter, stage 2 clutch kit by spec, new rotors and calipers in front, 180 HP thermostat, edelbrock waterpump,

what rear should i be looking into for disc brakes for rear? and is it a easy swap from drums?

what else should i look into next for the restore and tune up of the vechile?

 

Camaro,

Are you able to datalog? If so, maybe you could post a session. If not, let us know how you made out with setting the base timing and we'll go from there. IIWY I would not make too many changes at once until the real problem is found. Just as an example, I like to get my tune best as possible using as much stock goodies I can. ( fuel system, ignition ect.) Once I feel good that i've gotten all I can out of what I have, (and it's reliable and the results are repeatable) I will swap it out for an aftermarket upgrade and log it's performance changes. Making too many changes at once can have you chasing a ton of little gremlins.

Another note: Dont take anything for granted. I have purchased brand new factory made up plug wire sets that had broken conductors within the wire and on the outside they looked fine. If you have a DVM you can check your wires as you install them. I dont think thats what your experiencing but I'm just saying...Just because its new doesn't always mean its right.

 

hey brandon

i do not have any data logging programs. where do u get them? i am good wit computers soo i can learn fast. im not doing any changes to the car until i have it running well. then i will remove and replace what needs to be.

i took 1 of the spark plugs out of cylinder # 1 and it had sum oil on it. is this a bad sign? and what would be the cause of it. not alot of oil very lil.

 

I'm using a program called DataMaster. It's all I've ever used so I cant really comment on other programs but every one here that does their own chips has there own preffered stuff. If you search the stickies theres a lot of stuff that will be useful if you plan on doing your own chips.

As far as the oil on the plug...it probably isn't a big deal. It could just be garbage in the system from sitting ect.. Once you get it running good, then take a look at the plugs. That would be a better indicator of whats going on.

 

sounds good. soo why is it my car starts fine, idles fine. but when given gas, wants to die. sounds like it is choking on the air. 1 injector isnt spraying, its more like a dribble. but i got new TB coming. i just cant figure out why it boggles.

a friend of myne sed it is the dist. there is sum magneito inside the dist, that may have cracked and thats why its doin the boggling. im not sure what but im gettn new dist.

wat do u think

 

'Camaro
There are only two reasons why injector would be dripping fuel - either low fuel pressure or clogged fuel injector. In your case I would check Fuel pressure before blindly replacing parts. Replacing parts without good cause gets expensive after a while.

//RF

 

well i think fuel pressure is good. i think the injector is bad.

other than that, this mechanic told me there is no need to change or fix the timing because they are set and dont ever need to be changed. i think he is retarted. but look at my prior post about the DIST. is he rite?

 

Your dizzy has a rusted dust ring that covers permanent magnets and pick up coil. This is due to exposure to elements over the last 20 years of service. Sure, it would be nice to have a rebuild unit, but at this stage of the game it is not important (critical)- you are getting enough spark to get engine started and and ECM is receiving reference pulses which allow it to fire injectors.
Base timing must be set (verified) by disconnecting set timing connector (single wire connector brown-white wire) - It is a quick and simple procedure (use a search function to find an earlier post). If your timing is way off it will explain lack of performance once you resolve dripping injector.
Timing on third gen is about 4 to 6 degree BTDC
So - check fuel pressure first, if fuel pressure is ok (11 to 14 PSI) remove injectors and clean them. If your fuel pressure is way low - say about 3 to 6 PSI time to drop that gas tank and replace FP.. You have to check things before you blindly replace parts - Kapeesh???

//RF

 

yeah i know what u mean about blindly changing parts. but i think a new TB thats better will be nice.

fuel pressure i will have to check tomm, gotta get the gauge from my friend. but i dont think its a fuel pressure problem, i think the injector is bad. cuz the other one flows fine.

i will do a search for the timing. anything else i should be looking at for this restore?

also can u tell me why my temp gauge doesnt work it used to work but now it is pinned sky high. and also my gas gauge hasnt worked since i syphoned out all the gas and put fresh gas. its pinned past the F. any ideas?

 

Sorry if I was rough around edges!!! Please tell me all your observation since I am only 2500 miles away. Any how, yes - swapping injector is an easy fix. Just get T-20 Torx and replacement gasket and O-ring for injector.

About fuel gauge and temperature gauge - I'll touch on that later tonight.

//RF

 

i bought a holley 670cfm TB. soo im not replacing the injectors.

my observations: car starts rite up. sumtimes has to take a few starts to get started. car idles at 1100 rpms. if i give it any sort of gas car wants to die, but wont die. once of gas the car idles back at 1100 rpms. it idles but any form of getting on the gas, car wants to die.

i dont see any vacuum leaks, or cracks in pipes. i really dont know what it can be. mb i guess the timing is off. but i wont know till tomm or when i get the chance to do the timing.

anything else u can offer me will be greatly appreciated thank you

 

Its idling high because its lean.

Check your FP. If it's not 11+ psi then check your filter. It's either a pump or filter but I doubt it's an injector.

 

i think the pump is bad. but hwen i syphoned out the gas it look like it was pumping fine.

if you take the inlet fuel line to the TB, should the fuel spray out or should it just flow?

The filter is brand new. and another thing i just notice is that the fuel line that goes into the filter is a lil crimpd. is it hard to replace that fuel line?

 

Sounds like what happened to me. I did verify that the fp was low. I jumped out the fp to drain the gas out of the tank. It appeared to flow good as well. When I did take the tank down, the culprit was the 2" of rubber hose that attached the fp to the pickup. It was as soft as a sponge and had a vertical rip . I could have just replaced that, but went put in a Walbro instead.

Check fp before buying anything else. Autozone has tbi ones for 45.

 

Camaro
It depends on how "kinked" the line is. Sometimes you can simply work the crimped line with a pair of pliers to form it into a round again...if not then it should be replaced.

As far as the difficulty of replacing it...No harder than dropping the tank to replace the pump.

 

hey guys thanx for the info, well today i just went to start her to let her run for a few hours to see wats up. and it wont start again. it turns over starts then just dies. im guessing either a fuel or spark problem. i have a new distributor and wires on there way. once i get them and install them, i will see if she is good. if not IM DROPPIN THE TANK. which i really dont wanna do, but i bet that is the problem. 3 years of sitting sumthing must have went dont u think?

 

If you test and verify fuel pressure then you'll KNOW if you have to drop the tank. Simple, no guesses in that - TBI needs to have 11 to 14 PSI coming to injectors. BTW, did you replace that clogged injector???

//RF

 

the injector is cleaned, i have to get piping for the fuel gauge this guy gave me.

i ran into another problem, car started up and was running sunday. ran for as long as i kept her running. tonite i tryed to start her and it wouldnt start up. it turned over a few times but died instantly. WAT IS WRONG??

i am getting fed up with this bs, its seems like its a small thing thats keeping this car from driving. i wish i had more tools and more time on my hands to fix this baby, i know she is gunna be a sick car when she is done.

 

Camaro,

I'm getting the impression you want to know whats wrong...Your asking the questions...getting the answers, but you sound as though your not interested in our opinions or the approach to the problem.

It's probably your fuel pump or your fillter as we have all pretty much said. Were all just trying to save you a little time, money and aggravation...for whatever thats worth.

 

i am listening and doing what u guys tell me. i have to check the fuel pressure tomm, i need to get tubing for it. Where do i run the feed lines to check the pressure. any1 know a link i can see and use?

i think its the fuel pump also. cuz the PO had a wire fire, and the fuel pump relay melted the wires and killed the relay. so i think the pump fryed its self and needs to replace.

 

I'd check your local auto parts store...they will most likely have the guage, including the fittings you'd need. You can rent the whole thing for not much money. If your a regular customer they might even just let you borrow it. You crack the line to the tbi, insert the guage fitting inline and re connecting it to the TBI. It's actually really simple and strait forward. I'm not aware of a link, but once you see it, you will easily see how it hooks up.

 

ok sounds good, and when i see a low pressure its the fuel pump,. and if i see pressure its gotta be a spark problem im guessing? what other things u think i should look at for restoreing this camaro, or fixing what should be fixed after a car sitting for 3 years

 

well i think i have bad fuel pressure. the store doesnt have the item in stock to rent. and im not buying 1. i put 4 gallons of new gas in the car. it started rite up afta the fuel pump,pumped sum gas. it hit 2500 rpms then died. it does this all the time. sooo wat do u guys think?

 

replace pump....... if you refuse to check pressure then just replace it...... gm pumps are junk anyways. I mean they serve there purpose but, have always seemed to prematurely fail compares to a lot of others out there.

 

i mean i see i got fuel, and it pumped out the gas nicely when i syphoned it out thru the fuel line, before the fuel filter. sooo why replace hte fuel pump?

 

obviously it's getting fuel its if it's getting adequate fuel pressure is the question which i would bet beyond anything else that it isn't......

spark problems aren't as frequent or usually as easy to pinpoint. In otherwords you could have an intermittent issue more with spark than you will with fuel.

basically what i'm saying is your pump is old, it makes enuff pressure for a car ideling under no load to run (sometimes). When you put a load on it i bet it stalls, or if you rev it it stalls. In otherwords you have inadequate fuel pressure.......

sure the dizzy probably isnt pretty but, i had 1 that looked the same on a 92 camaro l03 and it ran perfectly fine.

btw another thing to try is to detach the tb return fuel line and blow through the return line with compressed air. try hosing the not working injector down with carb cleaner or take it out and clean it manually...... It's realy not brain surgery it's all easy to diagnose.

to check for adequate spark pull a plug and wire and ground it to something metal check to c spark color and strength.....

this stuff is all old school all you need is spark fuel and compression to have it try and turn over even with a tiny bit of each you will notice an admerable attempt. Without adequate of any of the above though it won't run worth a ****.

 

hey flaming. thanx for the advice. im dropping the tank as we speak. waiting on sum jack stands so i can drop the rear axle and get hte traction bar off.

i am also replacing that fuel line that was crimpd. it has a pin hole now lol after me trying to fix it.

im going to boil out the fuel tank and also replace the fuel pump. gas looks orangy and rusty. i just put it in last nite and let it sit. and it turned so i know the tank is bad. as i syphoned out the fuel. it seems like hte pump, pumps fine. if it pumps fine when i syphon it out. why am i not gettn enuff pressure?

i know its all old school stuff. but i havnt had a V8 since 8 years ago. its coming back as i work on it, but i am taking my time and getting the most advice that i can.

thanx again ford