I’m in the process of making some changes to a stock L03, and wondered if those with similar experiences could share their gains and or frustrations.
Here’s the list of items that will be completed once it’s time to start tuning again:
Full exhaust consisting of Dyno Don’s headers, new heated O2 sensor, Magnaflow cat-back and new cat. Ultimate TBI mods with new fuel pressure spring for 13# along with new fuel pump to replace original TBI pump. Intake manifold is being replaced with 7101 Performer RPM, using a Turbo City adapter plate… manifold has been gasket matched to the TB base and plate. Heads with remain the swirl ports with a fresh cleaning, valve job, new springs along with gasket match on the intake runners and some minor bowl clean up. There’s an LT1 cam going in there along with a new roller timing set.
Now… I’ve got new gaskets and bolts for the intake, headers, valve cover and misc… but the heads have me questioning myself. Should I just go with standard stock replacement? And… would it be in my best interests to replace the head bolts or could I get away with cleaning them up with a wire wheel?
I’ve already pulled the top end off and will be dropping off the heads on Monday so I have some time to address other tasks… should have the heads back by Friday so I’ll try to button up the majority of the work next weekend. This should give me the week to clean up allot of the mess I have created to date J
I’m not sure how much of an improvement to expect from this list, my main goal is just to freshen things up a bit and get more experience with my tuning skills while I work on the rest of the car and prepare to build a motor on a stand to full swap next fall/winter. Do you think this combo can get close to 250 fwhp?
Opinion and or advice welcome. I’ll try to answer any additional questions, it’s my first build. It’s keeping me from spending too much time in front of the tube.
Thanks,
Yort

 

250 is possible but I am not sure if you will get there, most ppl here will tell you to just go get a 350 but i am like you, i love my old 305 tbi, just a good reliable engine. headers won't give you much bang for your buck, most people like the 2055's but I am sure dyno don's will do the deed well enough. good luck to ya. let me know how it goes and what gains you achieve.

 

Thanks for the reply. I do have an L31 motor awaiting my attention… but I’m going to work on that one latter in the year. I already had the cam and intake manifold sitting around, and I have another vehicle that will receiver this 305 when I’m done with it in the Camaro. Another reason I’m paying attention to this motor for now; I plan on doing a complete motor and tranny swap when I transplant a 350 into it. I’m not sure how abused this 700R4 really is and I’m scoping out a manual swap. I have a T5… but I think I’ll just sell it to get some extra parts cash.
250 is probably high expectations… to be honest, I’d be happy just waking this motor up while I work on something else.
More opinions?
Yort

 

does the engine work right now?

 

It ran… fairly even compression across all cylinders… supposed it was “rebuilt” sometime ago… the guy I bought it from is notorious for not maintaining things. I’ve got the top end pulled off it, the heads look solid but I’m dropping them off at a machine shop on Monday. The piston tops look ok and it wasn’t burning oil. The plugs, wires and cap/rotor were in scary condition… but oddly enough looked like they were still burning cleanly.

 

Has anyone out there had to resort to using a slider-hammer type lifter removal tool, such as: GM Lifter Removal tool No. J-9290-01?
I was only able to remove 3 of my lifters due to build up on the lower half of the lifter assembly… and those I had to use a padded set of vise-grip style needle-nose.
Anyhow, I just wondered if anyone else had luck with a tool like this for a similar situation.

Thanks,
Yort

 

Yep, quite often when rebuilding. After a couple of 100k flat tappet lifters have this ugly habit of starting to mushroom/swell at the base. A good lifter tool and slide hammer will always do the trick. Just snag a new set before dropping it back in.

 

From build up articles I've read 250 sounds reasonable. But why keep the old heads, aside from cost?

check this out for help:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...cks/index.html

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te..._ii/index.html

 

Thanks guys… I appreciate the feedback.

The lifters in this one are hydraulic rollers… I have another set that came with the LT1 cam and they appear to be identical, except the rollers have more “play” in them that the ones I’ve taken out of the block. Should I use one of those sets over the other? I plan on fully cleaning the set that I use…
Heads? Well… for this 305, I just wanted to freshen it up a bit. I toyed with the idea of picking up some 305 vortec heads but I already had this intake manifold and figured I’d just stick with the stockers for now. I’ve got another motor on the stand that I will be building for a more permanent replacement. I will be taking my time on that one; this is just a quick top end job to get the car a little more motivated power-wise while I focus on suspension and interior/comfort aspects of the car.
BTW… the odometer on this car says 177K… and by the looks of the motor, I don’t think it’s been apart for at least half that life. It was supposed to have been rebuilt at some point… but I’m starting to doubt that.
Thanks again,

Yort

 

I got my heads back yesterday… I was not prepared for how clean they would be… J

 

Finally… I have the top end buttoned up and rolled it outside for a stat attempt. Now… I went from a stock L03 to an F-body LT1 cam, heads have a fresh valve job and have been ported and polished, new valve springs, rebuilt TBI with 55# injectors… new FPR spring (13#), injector pod gaskets doubled for spacer effect, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold, new fuel lines, new headers ect…
Start only with throttle wide open and struggles to idle, have to help it stay alive by keeping throttle open for 1000 rpm or so… sucker is WAY rich. So rich it want to die… I’m burning a new chip with a new BPW of 145 as opposed to the old value of 134. Do you think this will be work to lean it up enough to drive for data logging? I can’t get it to run long enough to get any BLM values to see where the VE adjustments need to start.
Also… do the injectors spray a steady spray or pulse… fuel doesn’t seem to stop and to be honest I never paid attention to it when it was running.

Thanks,
Troy

 

Your VE table is going to need work....55# injectors are stock. 145 will actually richen the afr..

 

That makes sense… When I plugged that in it was even more fuel than before. I assume then that the 134 was residual from the stock tune? Would anyone have an example VE table that I might be able to plug in to make it stable enough to start test driving for BLM data so I can correct from there? I will try to paste the VE that I am using now for critique…

60.16 61.33 66.80 67.58 69.53 71.09 72.27 73.44
57.81 60.16 63.28 64.45 62.89 64.45 68.75 69.92
53.13 57.81 62.11 63.28 63.28 64.84 68.75 69.92
52.34 56.64 61.33 65.23 65.23 66.41 67.58 70.70
47.27 52.34 57.81 62.89 66.41 67.19 67.58 71.48
41.02 46.09 53.52 60.55 64.45 64.84 66.02 68.75
33.59 41.41 47.66 56.64 59.77 60.55 64.45 63.28
26.56 32.42 42.97 50.39 55.08 53.52 54.69 59.77
20.31 23.05 30.08 35.94 39.84 47.27 49.61 44.53
Hope it shows in the correct line layout, if it’s not readable let me know and I will try to post an attachment.
Troy

 

think we can read it pretty good, but you might want to add the table header #'s of rpm and map. if i see that right your max VE is ~74? i assume that's the stock table. i reckon my tables as determined by EBL VE learns were in some ranges up to 100 and the 90's. that's with only a 3" cat+catback on an otherwise stock L03. just a heads up

btw, have you checked your actual fuel pressure?

 

Thanks. I’ll post an updated table tonight along with my new BPW, I think I took it down to 120ish and removed 20% from my VE table. It started easier after that but still rough as heck… sounds like a mean cam right now.

My previous tables were the result of lots of BLM logging and adjustments on an otherwise stock setup. I played with the gear allot last year to get the hang of how it worked before I started taking anything apart.

I have FP testing gear at home; I’ll hook it up tonight and double check where my pressure is. Assuming it’s close to 13# along with the 55# injectors… I had a BPW calculator spreadsheet that I found here on TGO… with those numbers for a 5.0L it recommended the 145 BPW… but it seems with the VE table I had it was way too much… am I wrong?

Thanks again,
Troy

 

man, i just noticed you were from wichita i was studying at WSU in fall 2007.. were having some great times back then.

on topic, at 13psi and 55lb/hr (pph) injectors it should be 132 BPC (hmm, i know that is base pulse constant, but what is bpw again? ) according to RBob's spreadsheet that comes with the EBL. The stock L03 chip has 134 btw. props on the manual 'old-skool' way of doing VE tables, that BLM logging and associated number crunching must be quite hard but i think you definately took a good way to find out how it's working.

btw, are you sure you got 305 injectors in there? they should have a p/n on them ending with 279. i don't quite understand why you're running that rich unless something else than fuel control is in the wrong.

maybe someone with similar mods can let you have a look at their VE tables. even if it's the EBL mask style tables, you should be able to extract some useful numbers.

hth
ownor

 

Good times indeed! That was my brother in-law’s freshman year on the ball team… small world.
Just checked the fuel pressure… 13# on the dot.
Injectors… not sure on the part number… they’re installed and all I can see right now is the numbers stamped on the top: GM5235206… which does look different than the injectors I pulled out: GM5235279.
I hadn’t even looked that close at the part numbers… when I placed my order I thought they were 55#... now that I look around for that part number I see some conflict of opinion as to the lbs/hour rating.
Are these 350 injectors? If so… cool, I just need an idea of what to use as an accurate BPW constant at 13psi on a 305.
Hmm… the car sounds likes it not firing on all cylinders but I suppose it wouldn’t if the fuel was being dumped on it too fast to burn… or is my logic screwed?
Thanks,
Troy
how about bpw 0f 117?

 

Now I’m starting to get turned around… if the stock injectors were 40# and my constant was at 134… would I need 27% reduction in the constant to feed this motor with 55# injectors?
Or are they 61# with the stock being 55# and a difference of 10%?
If I look at it from one point of view my new constant should be in the neighborhood of 98… which would certainly slow down that fuel dump I have going… I might go try that but if I calculate the other direction it would put me in the 120 range which I think I have already established is too much.
I’ll burn one real quick at 100 and see how she reacts.
Troy

 

The stock 305 injectors are spose to be 55 and 350 are 61 i found this in an old thread hope this helps "You really need to get the part number from the top of the injectors. Most 350 engines used GM 5235206 *RPD which are rated as 55 lb/hr at about 12psi but GM would set the BPC for 61lb/hr. If we assume a rating of 61# at 12psi and increase fp to 20psi they should be good for about 78.8#. Therefore I would start with a BPC of 107. This should be good for just short of 300 hp."

 

Well… she liked the 100 as a constant allot better than anything so far. Started up ok, still doesn’t want to idle for anything but will start to even out around 1100 rpm and will actually rev when I tap it.
I will have to double check my timing tomorrow and figure out where to start with my VE table since so much is different now.
I’m still open for suggestions on my table… here’s what is there now:
48.05 50.00 53.52 53.91 55.47 57.03 57.81 58.59
46.09 48.05 50.78 51.56 51.95 53.13 55.08 55.86
42.58 46.88 49.61 50.78 51.95 53.13 55.08 55.86
41.80 45.31 49.22 52.34 52.34 53.13 54.69 56.64
37.89 41.80 46.09 50.39 53.13 53.91 53.91 57.03
32.81 36.72 42.97 48.44 51.56 51.95 52.73 55.08
26.95 33.20 38.28 45.31 47.66 48.44 51.17 50.78
21.09 25.78 34.38 40.23 42.58 42.97 43.75 47.66
16.41 18.36 24.22 27.73 32.03 36.33 39.84 41.41
I took fuel out of the table before I set my lattest constant... I'll adjust it tomorrow. Still plan on ordering EBL Flash in 3 weeks or so… my family keeps using my car allowance before I can… dang kids and their crazy fireworks J

Troy

 

Thanks adm030... that was one of the many reads I had located as well

 

you definately got 350 injectors there i found that there's quite a lot of confusion about flow rates of the injectors. anyways, 305 (pn 279) are said to be at 55pph, 350 (pn 206) either 61 or 65pph (at least that's what my notes say).
so at 13 psi and 61# BPC should be 119, and 112 with 65#.

i'd double-check everything mechanical and electrical to be in perfect working order before messing with the VE tables. but if you're planning to order EBL anyways i'd just use a stock-ish VE table and the BPC i stated above. i'll guess and say your plugs are fouled from running too rich, causing the misfires.
good luck

 

Makes sense to me too. So far… my “to do list” of things to check before I try to mess with the tables any more are as follows:
1. Check each plug wire and double check firing order… is should be identical to stock, correct?
2. Pull each plug, clean and double check gaping again. I’m using stock replacement AC Delco plugs… set to factory gap. Should this be sufficient? The heads were cleaned up on the intake side with some minor massaging to the intake ramp and opened up and polished on the exhaust port. Tried to replicate what I learned from FAST355’s old posts on the swirl port heads.
3. Check torque on head bolts, intake and headers.
4. Pop off valves covers and verify valve set up.
5. Going to drain the oil pan again and put in fresh oil and filter… just did that Sunday but I have reason to suspect some coolant might have still been in the pan from the head removal.
I’ll plan on setting timing to 0* on the dizzy and the bin… that’s where I had it before. I recall reading in the past that some experience a need for some advance with the LT1 cam… any comments from own experience would be appreciated. I’ll also load a semi stock looking VE table… I may stick with the 100 value I have now as my BPW constant until I have the opportunity to get some BLMs.
BTW… right now my setup is with no exhaust… got my Dyno Don’s headers and Y-pipe one and that is it. I was hoping to be able to drive her a few miles to a lift do better accommodate putting on the new cat and Magnaflow… I’m getting tired of laying on my garage floor. J Do you think this lack of any back pressure could be a possible negative in my scenario?

 

“Most LT1 cam swaps will need 8° or more advance to keep them running on the stock tune. If you set it to the factory 0° the motor will most likely stall.” -ShiftyCapone
I was in the process of reading the LT1 cam swap thread and ran across this statement. I realize that I don’t have a stock tune… but I haven’t changed any of my spark parameters… I’ve only modified fueling.
I assume after reading this that I will need to look up a spark advance table that would be more compatible with my current setup? Or… should I set the dizzy at 8* and leave the SA-distributer base timing at 0* in the bin?
This treasure hunting stuff is kinda fun… this is going to turn out to be an addicting hobby isn’t it? J

 

any updates?

 

not really... been real tied up with work... hope to be back in town tomorrow or Saturday. I'll post up a reply then.
Thanks,
Troy

 

I will be working on this tomorrow, but I was still curious about any input on base timing or different SA parameters that I should consider with this LT1 cam and head combo. I’ve got a new bin set up with stock-ish fuel and spark tables with a BPW constant of 100 to start off with. Then, as it will allow me to drive around I will start collecting BLMs and correct from there.

Thanks,
Troy

 

Old thread… but I finally was afforded some time to tinker this past weekend… Here’s how it went:

Pulled the cap off the dizzy, all the wires and set them aside. Popped the valve covers off and pulled the spark plugs. Drained all the oil (and gas in the oil) put in fresh and new filter. Backed all the rocker adjusting nuts off and spun the motor for a couple of minutes to “pump” the lifters back up. Then, one cylinder at a time, set lash and locked them down proper. Double checked distributor wasn’t installed 180 off… the put fresh plugs in and buttoned it all back up.

Took a few attempts of cranking to get it to fire, but this time it sounded WAY better. Clearly firing on all cylinders this time, a definite good thing! I popped the little cap off and adjusted the idle so I could keep it running long enough to use the timing gun by myself and found the dizzy was running a stupid amount of advance, got it back to 0 and the thing is purring. Backed the idle adjuster back to where it should be and she seems nice and smooth.

I believe I had a combination of issues that were causing my problem; incorrect fuel calculation causing WAY rich condition and at least a few valves that were not opening due to being over tightened on initial setup.

Tapping the throttle with no load is very responsive indeed, but as I ran it around the block with my little girls in it, I can tell I have allot of data-logging to do as it bogs rather easily. I will wait and do that once I have time to take care of the following list:
· Drop the pan to fix the oil leak I induced… J
· Put the hood back on so I don’t look like a hooligan driving around.
· Put some exhaust on this thing, it freakishly loud!
· Replace the fuel filter and fuel pump while I have it on the lift for the exhaust.

I’ll drop another update once I have had time to tinker again… this has to be the slowest build on here! J

Troy

 

good to here, you'll have to tell us how the tuning goes.

 

[QUOTE=yort;4216338]but I was still curious about any input on base timing or different SA parameters that I should consider with this LT1 cam and head combo

Fast's lt4 cam SA table, was a exellent starting point for my lt1 cam lo3.
I ended up shaving off some ° SA, but great exemple for performance tune, probably spared me 1-2 years of testing since I had no idea of what the SA table should look like. Thanks Fast!

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...510-post6.html

 

Thanks Thomas... that should prove to be helpful... and thanks Fast!

 

[QUOTE=thomas1976;4266542]By strange coincedence I transposed this spark map over to my Dodge 4.7 in my 2006 Ram 1500 and it worked well in it too.

 

Back from the close to dead thread area… an update at last! Past couple of days I replaced the oil pan gasket, installed my exhaust kit and started playing with my EBL. I only have a few VE learns done… but I must say, for anyone considering EBL, from my personal experience so far it has been well worth it.

Car is running pretty well, I’m going to do some more, longer VE learn drives then I’ll work on loading in those spark tables highlighted above then do some more learns. I can’t wait to get into the throttle some more, I’ve been taking it easy with a maximum of about 15-20% so far… it feels like it’s going to want to run J