Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

So after another conversation of what motor my 92 has and the supposed 350 swap it has, I decided to check the back of the block while doing some TBI cleaning/modding. My predictions were proven right when I saw the 5.0L tag and 187 heads. I showed my father and told him what the castings meant and he said the PO said it was a 350 swapped and well it ended with me saying don't believe what people tell you. Like my friends 89 T/A GTA with a supposed 350 Vette engine and ended up being a 5.7L with 193 heads and the stock 305 TPI LB9 top.


Well with me thinking it was a 350, I figured my mid to high 14 second goal was done with Et streets, well its back up and I want to turn this 305 into a fun little motor and hopefully bring back goal back to completed. I figured with my mods on a L03, it should be around a 15.5-15.7 1/4 with just street tires. So I figured getting the peanut cam out there with something like a LT1 cam and EBL purchase and tuning it would get me there.

I looked around for a cam and found one for cheap from the same person who sold me the 9 bolt that I swapped in, not the LT1 cam I was looking for but figured it would be good enough. Its a Cam out of a 1988 Trans Am GTA 305 LB9 M5, Its code is CPC BC 13 049, I figured anything is better than the stock L03 cam and for $20, why not.

I have been reading the Lt1 cam digest stickie for the past week and the swap seems fairly simple and figured I might take the dive. This would be my first time ever digging into a motor myself, hopefully with enough research it should be simple to get down.

So I had some questions, if the same still applies to this swap/upgrade I figured a timing chain set would still be needed even more since the motor is 99.9% original and it has the Tach miles being 154k.


I have a few questions though,

1. I typed in the cam code in the search system and came up nothing, what are the actual specs on the cam? I know M5 cars got a better cam than the A4 cars which from my understanding most 305 M4s got the cam referred as the peanut cam.

2. Of course I know with any mods and our TBI system, tuning it will get the most out of any addons you do, will there be alot of tuning to get the car almost dialed in just with the cam swap? I know theres people who have been tuning their TBI for years and have not 100% dialed it in, So I understand this. I would be looking into going EBL to aid the process after the cam swap.

3. Anything from the LT1 Cam digest thread that I should ignore for this cam swap? Would the stock valve springs be fine with this cam?


Any advice going into this? Or is it straight forward swap and I am just overthinking it?

scamaro355

its gonna be a straight forward cam swap.. the tuning will be the main issue

thomas1976

LO3 with LT1 cam, full exhaust upgrade, tuned and fueled, 3.23 gears is in the late 5.7 TPI years territory.

Not fast but much better then the stock LO3.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Sounds good, I got most of the things out of the way and just have to rent the Harmo remove tool tomorrow. The more I see the motor without access crap the more I want to remove the engine and work on it on a stand and that will let me work on the trans as well. I might buy the hoist and stand this weekend.

I still have more I want to upgrade on the car. I want to get the wimpy TC out and replace it with either the popular s10 TC or something in the 2000-2300 range. I also need to replace the U-Joint on the driveshaft which makes me just want to replace it with a alum replacement while I am it.

Doom86

Don't take this the wrong way but you are planning to buy a $400 ECM to tune a $25 cam?

If you are going through the trouble of a cam swap why not get a decent one?

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

the EBL would be an investment to anybody looking to get into tuning Seriously, I agree that maybe setting the stock ECM up for tuning would be cheaper and better to start with, but if he can afford an EBL then hey why not

sure wish i could afford one

OH and to the OP, if i was you i would go ahead and buy an LT1 cam, you should be able to find them all day for around $50 if not less

bluers91

I agree. Why not at least find an LT1 cam for $50 or so to get that extra lift while your spending all that time.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

I am already at the point where every bolt on will be a very minimal gain. So I decided to do what would be worth it for me in the end and get the most out the investment and learning and tuning it seemed like the right thing/upgrade to do next. The cam swap just came in at the right time so I figured I might as well get it in there if its gonna help free up some power once tuning is somewhat done. The learning experience is also a good added touch and the cherry on top for me to do it.

I hear many good things about EBL and I do have a budget but if spending a bit more will aid it get there a bit smoother, then why not. I am although still interested in hearing cheaper/inexpensive ways to do it.

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

Moates.net has all of your tuning needs to get started cheaper than buying an ebl, I got all of my tuning stuff to get my stock ECM tunable for 50 bucks from him, then I bought a pocket programmer 2 and a USB aldl cable from a member here for 80 bucks, all you would need after that would be an older laptop with the parallel and serial ports(mine doesn't have a serial port which is why I bought a USB aldl cable) and your all set

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

Also want to say I support the EBL fully and feel the price is fair for what it offers as far as TBI tuning goes, it's just way out of my budget which is why I set my stocker up for tuning

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

I fully understand and I will be looking more into this, The EBL purchase was not a 100% purchase just something I was looking into in terms of getting into tuning.

Thanks for the info, I will probably try this route since its very inexpensive.

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

Honestly Carlos I would look into a bigger cam. I was afraid that I would have a hell of a time tuning a ZZ4 cam with 1.6 rockers on the intake side but to be honest i'm having an easier time tuning it than I ever did the stock stuff. Which to me is very weird. I would look in to getting the heads ported or get a set of ported ZZ4's or 059 Vortecs. You will be very happy with the results.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Well I am still looking around to see the actual specs of this cam. The guy who sold it to me said the obvious about M5 cars getting a better cam than most A4 and said its close to an LT1 cam. I did not know about being close but I figured its probably around a L98 cam. Once again it came out a 88 T/A GTA LB9 M5 car.

To me if its a straight forward swap and won't require me to replace anything then its fine for now. Even more if its atleast driveable with the stock tune/ecm.

Ohh yea the stock 187's are coming out for work or replacement when I dive deeper into the motor. I feel like diving into replacing the 187's, Performer TBI, and this Cam when I do more work on the car but this Cam swap is more of a learning thing more than a gain thing for me right now.

Anyways how much were your ZZ4 heads?

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

I got mine off of ebay for about 500 bucks and my ZZ4 cam for about 75. I did some mild porting with a 3 angle to help things along. I think I've got about 600 total in them. If you want to do any work to the 187's I would really just do some clean up on them. Do the short side of the exhaust and polish it up. Clean up the intake side and get a 3 angle. That should help in the power dept.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/pts/2036514320.html

Thats actually not that bad but for now I would rather get SFC's on and work on my floors the more I think about it. Still for $500 and removing some part of the bottleneck of the motor is not that bad but how much would the work on the 187s cost in comparison to just replacing them with ZZ4's?

I hate to do it but if the guy accepts my lowball offer of $400 then I will get em

Hey Robert quick question, what would basically full bolt-ons L03s do in the 1/4? I am trying to find results of people are getting from their work but nothing yet just people asking what they will run.

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

A full bolt on L03 Full weighted car should be in the mid 15 to high 14 range. Hell if you can pick up those heads do it. Even if they sit on the shelf for a while I would ****** those up in a second. To even get the L03 heads close to flowing what the ZZ4's do stock would take an act of god. But.......before I get hit with the flame stick I should tell you this. You can get some fairly good torquey performance out of a ported set of 187's but in my honest opinion you would be much happier with the ZZ4's. I know I am,lol.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Well money is tight and for something to be sitting on the shelf might be a bit much but hey if so happends to accept my offer, then why not.

But hey quick question about the swap. What would be a necessary replacement for the cam swap? The motor has 154k miles, I figured timing chain would be in need of replacement, Would the Valve springs need replacement for peace of mind or would they be fine? Any recommendations or stock replacements?

Yea I am reading some threads on people using the 187 heads for good torquey motors and that seems like fun. A Tpi/187 combo seems like more fun, I can probably pick up another complete TPI setup again for $55 again and keep it and not trade it this time.

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

I would replace the springs as well as the Timing Chain. I know I used GM Timing set 12371043 and it works great. As for the springs I believe there a set of manley springs that are pretty popular. Do a search for manley springs here in the TBI board under Kevin91Z's threads. I know he has mentioned a good upgrade set of springs for a cam swap.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Well I rented the Balancer remove tool from Autozone (I hate renting Autozones user abused tools) and got the cover off and removed the rockers & push rods. One thing that my newbness forgot was removing the lifters due to me not having access to a computer/phone at the garage so I learned why you should remove them. One fell somewhere that I am guessing is the oil pan since I heard it fall on something metalish.

So learning from that, I plan to remove the remaining lifters tomorrow but now I am stumped on how to remove the lifter in the oil pan. Its already loose and oil drained. I guess I have to unbolt the motor mounts and lift? I will see tomorrow or this weekend when I get an extra pair of hands to help.

I asked my father if he knew anyone with a Engine hoist but nothing, would be nice to clean up my engine bay and clean up the engine and give it a coat of engine paint. I plan to give my performer tbi intake a good cleaning this weekend as well. Jesus does the engine look tired and rusted.

scamaro355

yeah you can pull the oil pan without pulling the engine... do a search on in car oil pump replacement...

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Well I think I ****ed up hard and something very interesting happened.

Well one of the lifters was stuck, no luck getting it out. I tried budging it from the camshaft hole but nothing. Would not budge at all. After a quick break and some time to chill out. I decided to push it from the top to let it fall like the other one into the oil pan. Bad idea, ended up braking half of the outer ring where the lifter goes.

I guess most will be pissed but I figured it was a blessing in disguise. The motor was clocked at 154k, I was thinking of dumping money into better heads, intake, cam and ebl purchase which would of clocked me at around $1500.

So I would be removing the L03 out this weekend probably if my friends T/A doesnt need much to fix.

I am definitely going LTX/LSX, Just going to see what is better overall for me.