List the Top 10 things you found most helpful and unhelpful with your 305 TBI Build. List the things you have personal experiance with when building you car. Thsi can include Mods or Info. Please post your list, like so:


Helpful

1. example
2. example
3. example
4. example
5. example
6. example
7. example
8. example
9. example
10. example

Unhelpful

1. example
2. example
3. example
4. example
5. example
6. example
7. example
8. example
9. example
10. example

Your personal comments:

Thank you one92RS for the Idea. Post Away guys!

 

helpful- understanding that the heads ,cam and intake manifold are pathetic and that it's an 80's era smog vehicle

understanding that if I want to build for performance that parts for the 350 block are much more readily available and economical.

knowing that the computer is not as modern as my newer vehicles and can't use a Predator or SCT handheld tuner to make adjustments

knowing that the vehicles are all over 20 years old and need stiffening of the suspension to restore it to factory esque like ride

understanding that it will never ever perform like the more modern technolgy and be street driven friendly while making good power and economy

understanding that the engine needs to be torn down completely or don't bother at all.

understanding that the tranny needs to be rebuilt or don't bother starting the project

understanding that it takes money money money and time and a tired old 3rd gen is not an ideal project for a teenager or early 20's kid who needs it for a daily driver and doesn't have disposable cash for the project.


unhelpful- posts on forums discussing a friend of a friend of a friend's brother who did a LS1 swap for $13.67 and it took a weekend.

unhelpful- forum posters who reply to people to buy a junk engine and not get it completely rebuilt when they don't pay attention that the questioner also wants reliability

 

Not was I was looking for, but that is some Awesome real information and wisdom there, though I disagree with the Not for teens and guys in the early 20s. Anyone at that age is going to buy a money pit one way or another. At least you can work on Camaros yourself and parts are relitively inexpensive, and you have a cool car to drive. I'd rather have this money pit that I LIKE to throw money into rather than an underpowed car I Hated spending money on.

 

I was thinking mods, but that is still very helpful.

 

just HP mods or mods in general?

if your keeping the bottom end and heads stock.

Two of the best mods are a stall converter, and gear swap. those will net you the most in performance feel but not really any HP.

HP helpers are full exhausts, headers back.

and change the air cleaner setup

those are the first 4 things i'd do if I wanted to make my car faster.

 

helpful
1. matched injectors
2. egr delete--if no visual
3. headers, ypipe, catback
4. no cat but putting one back on
5. open element
6. better wires and coil and cap and rotor
7. 4th gen fans
8. aftermarket gauges to get the truth in readings
9. aftermarket fan controller
10. ultimate tbi mods
11. custom chip
12. lca's
13. solid panhard
14. tpi pump and aftermarket regulator on tbi
15. custom stage 2 chip
16. trans cooler
17. smog delete--looks more than any perf
18. koni shocks
19. 1le sway bars
20. all new moog front end parts
21. all new raybestos brakes all
22. 4th gen seats
23. 4th gen radio--cosmetics and sound
24. all ac delco sesnors

unhelpful
1. gimmik plugs
2. cheap auto parts sensors
3. removing charcoal canister
4. cheap wires, cap, and rotor

 

Thanks 92. Is that in order from most to least helpfull or just a general list? I'm trying to make this thread as organized as possible.

 

I'm a HUGE fan of an open element, also and aftermarket muffler can really help that terrible exhaust, even tho it still sucks, but one thing I've learned is that my camaro is a total a**hole, it doesn't like being worked on for some reason, cuz it always gives me problems when I try to fix or change something, I guess she just likes be old and slow haha

 

general. if you want most helpful. then #1 would be engine swap.

 

Haha. Well for those of us doing 305 BUILDS. Lets try keep it focused.

 

im doing a 305 build
1. heads
2. headers
3. 3'' exhaust without smog equipment
4. cam swap a big bump stick helps
5. custom cold air intake cause pontiac doesnt have one
6. summit racing equipment they share the rights to major performance companies
7. being a certified mechanic and not paying anybody to do my work
8. living in nevada with no smog laws
9. building a car ive had for 12 years that had 55,000 original miles on it and a blown tranny
10. truly being in love with Third gen fbodies

the Bad
1. tpi is getting harder and harder to find performance parts for
2. having a borg warner diff.
3. old vacuum lines and brittle connecters
4. two ex wives that still take your car fund
5. being in love with third gen fbodies
6. being in the army overseas miles away from your beloved car
7. speedometer gears incorrect after gear swap and tranny rebuild
8. a garage full of tools but never the one you need
9. the cost of said tool
10. being stationed in alaska

the best thing is the roar of the engine the turn of peoples heads and laughing at the guy that spent thousands of dollars on a 350 swap after you spank his *** oh and sound of the 9 psi from a 500 dollar ebay turbo is music to my ears

 

^^^ That is the format i am looking for. Interesting story man, but that ebay turbo's gonna break haha. Only doing this 305 stuff till I can afford to get a 350, put it in, and afford the horrible mpg. it's a great starting point for now.

 

350 tbi compared to 305 tbi MPG arent that different from what I have read and seen.

 

Wont't be swapping out for another thirdgen engine. Gen 1 350 or 383 is what I'm looking to get.

 

I know you have a top ten Undercover.

 

Helpful:

1. LT1 swap
2.Headers
3.Catback
4.Tpi Swap
5. Adj FP Regulator
6. Hawks Ram air intake
7. Lt1 Cam swap
8. TBI Chips.com tune
9. Suspension
10. Better tires

Unhelpful:

1. Spending money on the 305
2.Open element
3. Smog remove
4. Edelbrock TES Shorties
5. Ac delete
6. 180 stat
7. Upgrading injectors
8. Edelbrock Performer TBI Intake


Thats pretty much it. Im not gonna lie it was a fun 305 but nothing compared to what my new simple bolt on Lt1 does and can do with just a simple Top end swap.

 

i wanna know why people still feel the urge to talk **** about TBI systems.... all the aftermarket fuel injection upgrades for carbed cars are just fancy TBIs. if you took a 305 TPI long block stuck a TBI intake and stuff on it and put a open air or something on it itd be damn near the same power as the TPI...

 

really???

go back and re-read it and you chose to ignore that I wrote not the IDEAL car. The operative word is IDEAL and I then went on for someone with limited funds and time and needs a daily driver.

Honestly, if you are looking for just performance then don't waste your money unless you have plenty, and plenty of time to do it CORRECTLY.

Why drop $3-$5k to PROPERLY do a good swap when you can get a used 93-97 4th gen for the same money and have equal performance but in stock fashion and better suspension?

Unless you got a rare vehicle in EXCELLENT shape then you will be spending money on a new paint job and body work, new interior and seats, suspension, rebuilding the tranny, fixing electrical gremlins and that's all before touching the engine

so, you asked for the top 10 most helpful

I would figure that you would appreciate COLD HARD REALITY as the #1 thing.

I will say it again. A 20-30 year old vehicle is not the IDEAL vehicle for a cash strapped "kid" to purchase.

 

it is apples to oranges. You can't hop into a stock 4th gen or S197 stang and expect the 3rd gens to perform like that without spending serioius cash.

I believe that many forget that the vehicles are late 70's design built for the smog era 80's when performance was a bad word.

 

Please keep posting aproriate gentlemen.

 

who is in a bad mood?

you're reading emotions through a forum???

you asked about the 10 things which "we" namely our personal experiences found to be helpful

reality is #1 and knowing what you really have and what it takes to transform it correctly.

I researched the LO3 and found about the peanut cam, swirl port heads and knew what I was getting. I personally wanted low end torque and a 3rd gen body style. I already have 2 other performance vehicles.

So, the LO3 based 3rd gen was a fine fit for me.

performance and LO3 don't belong in the same sentence unless you spend $$$. But, then you don't have an LO3 but do have a 3rd gen.

I also understand the demographic of auto forums and those of us with real world experience won't toss out pie in the sky BS. Thus you will get responses such as mine wrt a thread about performance and the LO3.

You are best off saving your money and do things such as cosmetics which can be valuable regardless of the powertrain.

 

I was thinking about posting something similar to this. Yes a 350 block is the best option but many people looking into getting more power out of a 305 are in high school or college like I am. So if we could stop having the "put a 350 in it" that would be great. Yes I want a 383 for mine but I just can't afford that right now.

What im thinking about doing to mine:
Port the stock heads or find tpi or better yet vortecs if I can find them cheap
lt1 or lt4 cam
port intake or get a better flowing one
ultimate tbi
3" dual exhaust with xpipe and glass packs
remove emisions stuff (doesn't get tested)
aftermarket computer, maybe a megasquirt 2
drop the rear end to build it up a bit and go posi with 3.73s
ws6 sway bars with kyb gr2 shocks and struts and moog springs
quick ratio steering box
custom subframe connectors and strut tower brace
cant forget 3 angle valve job, 1.6 rockers, and milling heads down to get compresion up
Also throw in a wonder bar

 

That's a good build plan fishyz, how do you plan to do true duals?

tq is good, it's easy to see your emotion in your posts. I consider us friends, but what you have posted today was unfriendly and negitive. If, in your opinion, no one should have a 305 build plan, or own a thirdgen unless they are 30+yrs old, fell free to say so. But say it in a positive manner and without such attitude. I'm doing a 305 build (Not a major one, not a cam or heads) and I started this thread to help other 305 builders (who are many), not discourage them. Your entitled to your own opinion, but more people will listen and conform to your point of view if you don't come off as a jerk with a negitive attitude. It's easy to get 200+hp and 300+lbs tq (fly wl hp) out of an L03, and that's just fine for a 17 year old High School Grad. Many people here just perfer to work with what they got instead of doing an engine swap. Here is my build plan, feel free to voice your full and honest opinion, but don't be so negitive.

 

This car belongs to another member on this site. He seems to know his stuff when it comes to getting power out of an lo3.

 

My build plan for the near future in no particular order:

1. Open Air Element (Cleaner)
2. egr delete
3. New headers back exhaust system (Have Dynomax Super Turbo Cat-Back)
4. Hypertech Thermomaster TBI Chip (obtained)
5. 180* Thermostat swap
6. Nitto NT555 tires 285/40-17 rear (obtained) and 245/45-17s front
7. Edelbrock performer rpm intake manifold
8. Electric Fan
9. 3.42 Rear End Gears
10. Corvette Shift Kit (Obtained)

Don't plan on doing anything major to the engine. Just going to get it to where it's not embarrassing.

 

I'm totally confused.

 

YOU NEED TO QUIT POSTING **** TOWARDS OTHER PEOPLE. THIS IS AN ONLINE OPEN INTERNET POSTING FORUM. IF YOU DONT GET WHAT YOU WANT DEAL WITH IT. YOU KEEP ATTACKING PEOPLE WHEN YOU DONT GET WHAT YOU WANT. IF YOU DONT LIKE WHAT PEOPLE POST THEN MAYBE (YOU) NEED TO QUIT POSTING. HERE IS ANOTHER THREAD WHERE YOU ARE CALLING PEOPLE NAMES AGAIN.

ON TOP OF MY DADDY WILL BUY IT. YOU ASKED FOR MODS. SOMEONE IS IN THE ARMY AND THAT IS A MOD????

TO THE ONE IN THE ARMY. YOU ARE MY HERO AND HAVE MORE GUTS THAN I DO.

 

Tq is good, you are an a**hole, you really are, you go around talking **** on EVERYONE for no reason, just because people have different opinions than you doesn't mean you should act like that, and by the way, skelitor does hbe a very special car, probably one of the most original car I have ever seen, so don't tell him he's wasting his money because he's not, just because we don't have the time money and skill to do a full engine rebuil and swap, doesn't mean that we shouldn't mod what we already have, so stop being such a **** to everyone, this is a site for people who love their third gens and want to help others who also love their third gens, or even get help from others, so if everyone's views are so wrong, then maybe you should be president and gives us all of the right answers, or you can just shut you dumb*** mouth, which would be easier

 

Sorry didn't get the link on http://www.cardomain.com/ride/386922...evrolet-camaro

 

Naglemac, thanks for backing me up, but like 92rs clearly pointed out us young guys are agressive and quick to anger. Lets rise up as the better men here. No name calling. There are much better ways to take somebody on.

 

That post could be ten times more awsome and studious with a little tweaking.

 

TAKE SOMEONE DOWN. I HAVE BEEN ON THIS EARTH PROLLY TWICE AS LONG AS YOU.

AGAIN THIS IS AN OPEN FORUM WITH OPINIONS. EVERYONES OPINIONS ARE DIFFERENT. EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO THEIR OWN OPINIONS. EVERYONE HAS A DIFFERENT IDEA OF WHAT A MOD OR UPDATE IS. GET OVER.

YOU CANNOT TAKE PEOPLE DOWN. THERE ARE TOO MANY OF THEM.

 

But I can try,. And In my own OPINION. Tq is good was being unnecicarely negitive. In YOUR opinion, you think I think I own this site and people should listen to me and conform to what I think they should think. I do not. I dom however, have possestion of this page, and I want this thread to be good. It's going the wrong direction, so can we get
P.S. You are approx. 2.47059 or two and one half times my age.

 

nobody owns anything in an OPEN FORUM. PERIOD.

FROM MY POINT OF VEIW YOU SEEM TO BE CAUSING MORE TROUBLE THAN INFORMATION.

 

Very well. Let us stop this bitter argument. What is your ten planned or finished ten mods Naglemac?

 

I completely agree. I also agree that a 350 block is a much betterpplatformflowing for a build but it's just not doable for many of us at the moment. So if we could stop bashing eachother and just focus thhis thread on make the 305 put out some power that would be very nice.

 

naglemac? are you actually ready to take a learning aspect instead of a pointed aspect.

search and read. take posts as an opinion. NEVER ask for a specific response. NEVER put a brand on a response or people.

and always remember one thing. people as well as cars are NEVER created equal.

naglemac that. TWEAK THAT!!!! you would think that someone that has been around 42 years and over 8000 posts on numerous boards and has built more vehicles than you are in age would have know a little bit.

 

Can a moderator please lock this thread. This is just rediculous.

 

only on your side buddy.

 

Honestly 92rs, it is ridiculous that you would even get involved in all this. Just because you can post whatever you want doesn't mean you should(you as in just people not you as in in YOU). If you were the true adult here, you would try to stop this ridiculous fight, not escalate it. IN MY OPINION.

 

Now,

 

I don have a list of ten but I can name some for you

Helpful: (that I already have)
OPEN ELEMENT, it's cheap and effective
Any kind of exhaust upgrades

What I plan on doing:
3.42 gears and one day do an engine swap

I plan on getting a motorcycle in spring, that's why I don't plan on doing much

 

I always had respect for you 92rs, but not anymore, you're a very smart guy that knows what he's talking about, but I can't believe you're involved in this either, this is a place for helping people and giving opinions, not putting other people's opinions down, I'm sorry for my post before, because it was rude, but true an it applies to you too, not just torque is good, even tho I see him start things like this all of the time

 

this thread has the potential to be a great thread but it needs to be cleaned up and people need to stop acting so childish

 

well really. it seems as though skellitor is in all the posts that are causing problems between members.

to those who like or dislike again. OPINIONS.

 

I'm just in to many Forms. The odds of me being in a negative one increase the more forms I comment on. This thread had potential. I tryed just to get it back on topic like 5 times on this, now if we are all in agreement, voicing opinions is OK, voicing them in a positive manner is better, and we can ALL agree that this argument is childish and we should just stop.

 

Agreed, I want to hear everyone's opinion, but I don't to see other people's ideas get put down

 

a good quality air filter will flow as much or more than an open air, and keeps the dirt out of you motor. Unless it's a 1/4 mile then back onto the trailer I'd never run an open element, risk your cylinder walls for limited/no power gains? no thanks.

 

really?

please point out where I answer technical questions incorrectly?

next, please point out on opinion threads, such as this where I attack anyone personally. I simply share my opinion which is all this thread is about.

I stand by my statement that a 20-30 year old vehicle is not the IDEAL, please pay attention to that word, it is spelled i-d-e-a-l vehicle for a cash strapped kid to own.

Please explain how that is negative in any way shape or form?

You will find that it's not. What you will also find is that after spending money and I mean good, hard earned money to try and get performance from a non eprformance setup will leave you wanting and having spent good money for little results.

Where do i state that I hate 3rd gens?

answer- nowhere

I do however state that they are great looking cars (in my opinion) and suggest working on the interior and appearances.

Then, when you have the money to do performance correctly, it will be done to a good looking vehicle. There is nothing worse than trying to bubble gum and tie wrap things together.

and to you nagelmac, where in this forum have i ever insulted you. Why not do yourself a favor, PM skelitor and ask him, as everyone was advising him about big dollar exhaust sytems who showed him how to acquire an adequate system at a very reasonable price and even showed him where there was a coupon.

If you are looking for realistic answers here based upon experience then there are several here who offer them. Or, you can join the lemmings (ask your folks if you don't get the analogy)

at the end of the day, you do whatever you want and understand that everything that I post here, as well as what you post here is worth what we charge.

 

An open element doesn't let dirt in your motor, it has a filter just like any other kind of air intake system, and it gives you a huge performance gain