just acquired a cfi setup off ebay and was wondering what i need to do to install it.its gonna come with wiring harness ,ecm,manifold(u&L) throttle bodies etc..

i know theres some compatibility issue between the manifold bolting up to the newer style 86+ heads.do i just need to find some pre 86 350 heads or do some grinding on the manifold?

current engine in my car is a lo5 tbi 350 . I m not after a performance gain so please no "do tpi" comments. I have a crossfire hood and like the look of crossfire injection once the hood is popped.

 

I have a cfi trans am let me know if you need pictures of the engine

 

sure. eye candy is always nice

 

 

i dont get it..why don't other people prefer crossfire injection?? whats so different or disliked??? its always carb, tbi, or tpi...

 

Its an archaic system riddle with problem after problem. To top it all off, its so uncommon that normal maintenance is difficult

They call it cease-fire-injection for a reason

 

The manifold ports are very small, major porting to get any gains in performance. What your left w/ is a manfold that has paper thin walls, I'd say they would be crack prone. I removed mine, replaced it w/ tbi & a much better intake.

 

What exactly makes CFI different from TBI? Seems like TBI does the same thing (2 barrel wet fuel injection) but in a simpler setup.

 

Cfi has 2 iac valves, the op could actually add the extra iac wiring to his orignal harness. Yes the single tbi is simpler, it does not need to be balanced like cfi, using a manometer. They don't have the throttle bushing problems either, my cfi tb had slop in the throttle bodies when I removed mine. Never seen that in a single tbi.

 

so all i would have to do is run a wire for a second iac? in addition to machining the intake or getting new heads?

 

in 1994,i swapped a stock '84 vette CFI 350 into my z28
-low end torque was good,but otherwise it was pretty
lame-seemed to run out of breath at around 4000rpmin '95 i modified it for more power-
-fairly extensive manifold modification and porting done
-1/4" lidspacer
-stock heads given a mild port job
These modifications made a huge difference for the
better;at least 1000 more usable RPM capability,low
-end torque increased a bit,seemed to add about 40
HP to otherwise stock engine
Original fuel pumps are another known crossfire
weakness-TPI pumps are often used as an upgrade.
My C/F has been almost 100%reliable since '95-
just a bad TPS a couple times
If you want to modify a crossfire for high performance,
be prepaired to do most of the work yourself...

 

gosh you guys know alot. ill just stick with my good ol faithful tbi..or go carb further down the modification road.

 

As 8t2 z-chev pointed out the potential is there but it takes a lot of work to get to it. The one thing you have an advantage your car has a better (faster) ECM than the CFI cars originally came with. I've ported my CFI intake and swapped the exhaust manifolds/y-pipe to L69 version. The reason for this is the LU5 shared exhaust with the LG4 (and your LO3 uses similar).

 

Judging by responses I m guessing this isn't a common swap?

 

Most of the time people are asking how to get rid of CFI. Some of us here have them. But I think we are a rare breed.

 

As 82tarecaro stated the majority have a very low opinion of CFI. I often compare it how the original Rochester FI was received in '57. Most removed the system in avor of single/dual carbs. Look at what one of them alone is worth today and they are excellent systems if you know how to set it up. CFI an be vastly improved from stock and still look stock (if that matters). The intake base porting/clean up is key along with exhaust upgrade and a switch to a TPI fuel pump. The intake/exhaust starve the motor for air above 4500rpm. And the service manual states 9-12psi when it works much better at 15-19psi which the stock CFI pump won't do. Also take into account the LU5 cars weren't available with any gear deeper than 3.23 while the L69 had a 3.73 gear. The only real problem in your swap is I'm not sure how different the post '86 305 heads are from pre '86. If nothing you could use the hood and it's functional flaps (though you have to watch for water intrusion).

 

Correct. Buy one and try to keep it running for a while and you'll see why people dump it left and right

Im confused why members are posting porting suggestions, mix/match parts when considering CFI in general. Still doesnt account for the terrible EFI system, ECMs that burn out frequently, sloppy injectors that are almost impossible to find/replace and since they're 30 years old, they definitely need to be. Tiny TBs that needs to be balanced accurately to hopefully achieve similar power to... a LO5 which we all know was a huge powerhouse

Seriously, find ANY other EFI system and run it over CFI

 

I removed mine in 2006 and added a 7.4L TBI- larger injectors -larger FP- and a Holley projection TBI manifold.

Never had a lick of trouble with CFI. Did the swap for added induction capacity.

 

FWIW - my 60K mile CFI system runs pretty darn good. There are 383 CFI systems making over 400 HP. If I was starting from scratch, I would go with an LS based motor, but since I have a car with the CFI, and I want to keep it original, I am going to upgrade the CFI. I have a Renegade intake for it, but I am just going to wait and build up a mild 383 for it. The CFI is finicky, but they respond to regular mods just like any engine.

 

I like the look and i ve done bought just about everything for a cfi setup in one ebay purchase(http://www.ebay.com/itm/360387072925...84.m1497.l2649)
didnt notice the missing injector pod till i paid for it.

why does everyone in the camaro world seem to hate cfi but the vette guys seem to like it? Also if cfi was really that bad in demand would they have made those renegade intakes?

 

If you want the CFI - go for it. You should be able to use your harness and computer to get it to work. You will have to do a few mods to the harness to adapt it to multiple IACs, and the sensors are probably in different locations so you may have to extend or shorten some wires. I think you may have to add an IAT to the air cleaner base also. As far as the heads go, I think maybe the head bolt angles might be different - not too sure.

 

82tarecaro how would i run a second iat? just wire it straight into existing one in my harness?
i m not really into (or good at for that matter) splicing harnesses. would it be better to use the cfi stock harness and ecm thats coming with the intake?

 

I think it needs to be spliced into the existing IAC leads. I have never done it, but the computer would need to be able to control both of them. Use your existing computer. The stock CFI computer is a bit crude. The later ones can be modded for custom tunes, and there is also the option of going to an EBL. There are some computer tuning gurus that can help you better then I can, as I have only ran my system stock.

 

i would consider your swap a downgrade. A different intake and exhaust will livin up ur car in no time. Im running my original TBI and injectors with 206K miles on them and been transplanted into another car as well with no problems. TBI is so easy to work on. anyway the intake manifolds center bolt angles are different on pre86 heads. other than that it will fit.

 

Your prom will not work with 2 IACs. The .bin for you current ECU is about 160 steps. The CF needs 80 steps. you need a new .bin for CF conversion.

 

If you get what you need i'd do it, I've never even seen one in person and I personally like the underdogs for some reason

 

Found 2 more throttle bodies online 50plus shipping.I should have everything to do this swap now as far as intake and throttle bodies and stockecm/wiring if I choose to use it.150 bux for everything doesn't seem that bad to me.only thing I need to figure out is splicing wires and getting an osterich or something simliar to toy with the bin file.

Like I said in op this is more of a looks more than function swap.I don't need the best built motor in my camaro.I ll update this into a worklog as I get parts and start the conversion.

 

while i'm thinking about (and i know this really isnt the appropriate section) if anyone has a working hood scoop solenoid for a cfi z28 hood for sale please pm me.

 

I actually swapped from carb TO crossfire;tried it first in
1993 onto my original 305-made several mistakes and it
ran awfull....back to carb until i knew what all needed
hooked up and what i didn't need to hook up...got the
'vette engine and got it right this 2nd time in '94...
Since this was not an original installation,there are a few
differences from original:
-used '85 2.8 MPI fuel lines that run along the LH frame
instead of crossing over the tranny to the RH side like
original CFI lines
-'83 ESC box(ECM and the rest of the wiring,ETC.'82
-'82 vette chip
-relays inside by the ECM instead of by the brake
booster
-modified my "carb"non flapped SMC hood into working
air induction hood with bigger flaps than original
Properly set up and modified,CFI rocks!-runs great
and very,very reliable.Vacume leaks and weak fuel
pressure are the usual causes of poor running CFI...
The TBIs are said to flow 275 CFM each-plenty for a
mild to medium-hot 350-stock intake won't flow
that much,but can be modified/ported to do so.

 

Update:

Back from oblivion(personal life problems)
This week :
New throttle bodies coming this week.
Intake gets "hacked"(ported and cleaned up)
Ongoing:
refinishing my crossfire hood and prepping for paint

To do:
get my ecm introduced to an osterich lol

 

I think I'd rank the thirdgen EFI systems in this order. TBI > Crossfire > TPI.

Everyone loves teh TPI because it looks good, but it's crap. The TBI has a lot more potential. You can put a real manifold under it and put some big injectors in there and start making the TPI guys cry uncle in no time. The problem is that the applications that TBI comes stock on just dont lend themselves to being real performers, so the system doesnt really get the recognition it could otherwise get. If it had the same amount of aftermarket support that the TPI gets, it would be a much more compelling system.

TPI is just a way to make tons of torque from 2500-4000, and after that your hp/tq curves tank like the Titanic. That's a perfect way to permanently cripple ANY good engine build.

I've considered running a heavily modded, siamesed, ported base TPI system before and I think something along those lines would be an amazing setup. But as supplied by the factory they're garbage for power, and it takes a LOT of work to rectify that.

The Crossfire system, being much closer to the TBI system, has more potential I think, but it has a lot of issues too. There is one nice aftermarket intake about to (allegedly) go into production for it, probably will be expensive, but it looks nice... read about it here: http://www.crossfireinjection.net/

This is the stock intake port... you can see how crappy it is from the factory.



The right side is the factory port, the left side is modified and ported to what is the smallest of the normal factory ports. Good for velocity/torque, but not for horsepower. After you open up the intake and can get the injectors flowing, it starts functioning like any other proper induction system - it can flow what the engine wants. Just a matter of getting the computer set up for it, and I think you're a step ahead using the L03 computer instead of the 82 ECM which is probably an abacus next to what you have.

In general I'd say the TPI is clearly going to make more hp than the crossfire, but with work I would bet the crossfire can surpass the TPI's tuned runner RPM handicap. And higher RPMs are horsepower.

 

Those renegade intakes do look nice however I couldn't justify buying one since they re in the ballpark of $500.for that I d just get a good carb intake, carb>tb adaptor and stick with with tbi if I was going after more performance(which im not. This is mostly just for looks.)

 

It is strongly suspected that the Renegard has great flow numbers. Yet it has never been flowed? Some owners have experienced more performance SOP and a very few have B4 and after #'s on 1/4 mile MPH increases. I believe member Ben73 has before after #'s on the Renegade if you search here and on crossfire forum. I would have bought one but just before release I invested in the Holley Projection with a 7.4L tbi on top. That worked very well and ease of drivability increased from my XRam prior.

 

I have a Renegade. I haven't installed it, because the car is getting new paint and interior. But judging by the size of the ports, it has to be better then the stock intake. It definitely would benefit from better heads and free flowing exhaust. I think gains would be minimal if everything else is left stock. My original intentions were to throw it on the stock engine, but I think I want to build up a decent engine for the car and put this intake on it. I just checked over on the CFI messageboards, and it looks like they are going to start up production again. If you are on the fence about buying one, I would get it. It is the only decent intake for a Crossfire engine. I don't think there is enough of a market there for them to keep making them. So get one while you can. The first run were nice pieces. I would imagine the second run will be just as nice, if not better.

 

Update:
throttle bodies came in today.
I salvaged the injector pod and tps I needed off of them(they re in worse shape than the pic lead to believe otherwise I would have used them)swapped in new 350 injectors .went to bolt upper intake on to lower for a mockup for fuel line purposes and realized I ve lost the bolts.
Anyone that still has a crossfire setup care to share bolt sizes? Couldn't find it in my haynes manual.

Tomorrow if I have time,doing a brake job on my van so I can get my backup vehicle going so i can proceed swapping this intake,I ll be hacking the holy bejesus out of this intake.also ordering osterich and associated parts in the morning.

 

I am not sure how the ostrich works. But you should consider the EBL. The DIY programming guys seemed to have progressed past the Ostrich to this setup.
http://www.dynamicefi.com/

What bolt sizes do you need? I have an extra manifold around I might be able to check out to see if I can figure out bolt sizes. I am not sure if there are markings on the bolts to tell the size though.

 

Honestly its been so long long since I took the bolts out I can't recall what size they might be.I still can't believe I ve lost them.not surprisedat the fact auto parts stores don't have them like they do other intake bolt sets.

Ebl seems nice but its too expensive vs what I m doing plus osterich seems better for what I need it for.an osterich is just a chip emulator that can allow on the fly the changes.once I get the tune I need I can burn a chip and take the osterich out and put it in another vehicle whereas ebl is foruse in one vehicle.

 

for anyone following this thread :

this project is on hold for the foreseeable future.
Had too much random dumb **** come up with my daily drivers to the point my camaro became my daily driver.freak thunderstorms breaking my windows out in other vehicles ...tie rod ends breaking..etc... but rest assured the camaro is as well as it was the day i bought it(actually better since it has a fresh rebuilt tranny in it now) but the streak of bad luck ran out today i think .(dramatic drum roll here) i just snagged a rough 88 GTA for 1000 that all money and effort will be going into.

 

For anyone interested, here's how to wire up your CFI to run on one IAC.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...-both-tbs.html

 

I guess it is time for me to admit the same ( and come out of the man cave) - pickup a complete CFI setup at a local swap couple of weeks ago. The TB's were sent to DSC for boring and bushing. Since RENEGADE MANIFOLD will not be available in the near future (6 to 8 weeks current projection for a second run prototypes - see news section on their web site) in its place OE intake will be blasted, reworked and ported.

At this time current plan is to use VRFPR and EBL ECM with 80 lb-Hr injectors in a parallel feed configuration. Planning to run about 13 PSI at idle and 25 at WOT. We'll have to play with the FP settings and see what actually works best

Single IAC modification is noteworthy, but does anyone has a complete BOM (bill of materials) for this conversion - where do you get constrained O-ring gaskets -size???. Unfortunately Simpson36 no longer doing any further work on CFI

This will be fitted on top a of healthy 383. Let see if the CFI can be made to perform and put old tails to rest.

//RF

 

LOLWUT?

You may be talking about park steps, but there is no difference in actual traveled steps between CFI and TBI.

In my experience the single IAC modification is not necessary.

I currently have a (Corvette) CFI running in my Grandfather's '71 Chev Pick up (Highly modified, with a Pro-Street look, chopped, sits about 5" off the ground, etc), running off a 16147427 PCM, that also runs a 4L60E. It's currently on a 305, but by the winter will be back on the Vortec 5.7 where it was supposed be (getting a new 5.7 block to replaced the cracked one we have )

The CFI runs great, idles nice, has plenty of torque, needs a tad more tuning, but is an almost stock bin file, that IIRC was for a 5.7 w/ 4L60E, $0D code.

I recently acquired another CFI set-up that if I don't finish converting the Crower mechanical injection manifold to EFI by the winter, will be going on our T-bucket.

The CFI set-up got a bad rap, solely due to the electronics running it. Poor choice in use the edge connector, and the ECM was quite basic, use a better ECM/PCM and it works much better.

 

Now, this is getting interesting. Let us know how things turn out!

 

As I am going through the build - I'll be putting together photo's and video. Things that I missing from my CFI setup

1) rear throttle (or is it TV) cable bracket - can any one take dimensions of it or know where to source one?

2) one of the air cleaner retaining plastic nuts is gone AWOL.

Regarding IAC - park steps and other IAC parameters can be easily altered in EBL. The P4 PCM (7427) is a very interesting approach to CFI management!

//RF

 

I went from cfi to tbi. To make more power, you have to move more air. The intake design just wont allow more air, I think the stock set up for a 305 is around 450cfm. There are aftermarket intakes out there, and bored tbi's for it, but it wasn't worth the cost. For I felt my trans am was underpowered when new, and the best bang for the buck both money and labor wise, was to drop in a 350 and go tbi.

 

With the second Crossfire system I just got, it had all of the proper brackets, first one didn't. :/ I'll try to remember to get some pictures and measurements of the bracket you're talking about tomorrow. All of the Crossfire stuff is at my Grandparents place, with the two cars they will be and are on.

 

I have a 83 5.o Lt 8 cylinder CFI camaro. I am actually in the process of replacing my head gaskets manifold gaskets, etc. I am pretty sure I removed all of my manifold bolts, bolts that go through the throttle bodies(I dunno why they are stuck to the manifold anyways lol) I counted 3-4 bolts from the back of the block as well as the ones through the thermostat valve is there something I'm missing? Also I am assuming I need my pistons at TDC anyone give me a tutorial on that cause I removed alot of vacuum pipes radiator hose alternator etc so I was wondering if there is a manual way I don't want to put all the crap back in it and turn it over until it hits "0".

 

There should be 12 bolts holding intake to the heads:

Front - 3 bolts (one on the top, two toward bottom)


Inside - 6 bolts


Rear - 3 bolts (large hole is used for distributor) - two on the top, one on the bottom.


It should be clear from these photos were the bolts should be.

//RF

 

I did get all those but my intake is like stuck on I did notice that the two manifold gaskets go on the sides while on the plain there is no gasket, but more of a adhesive solvent you think that might have something to do with it? maybe I need to take a rubber mallet to it?

 

If you got all 12 bolt bolts out give it a gentle tap with rubber mallet. If that does not help I use SS scraper and drive it between one of the heads and intake. That's usually enough to break stubborn intake manifold gasket. The key is to use gentle taps - so as to not score or gouge.

//RF

 

right on, I appreciate it, funny thing I actually saw a prier on my bedroom floor but I'll probably start with the mallet first. Just a curiosity question why do people dislike the CFI? I did notice that the throttle bodies are stuck to the manifold which I thought was kinda of odd and if lets say a throttle body went bad (ohms) then you would need to get a new manifold right? I'm sure there other reasons