Originally Posted by Fast355

Those specs have been around well before I bought the engine. That being said 810s are the later version of the 191 heads. I am not going to argue with you either. The 20270 and 283 both had forged crankshafts. You can argue all you want, I don't care. The 8,800+ GVW engines were designed to run at wide open throttle pulling a heavy loaded truck and trailer. They are overbuilt for what they are doing for a reason. 4 bolt mains and forged crank. The 99 2500 Express 4 bolt main short block in my brothers garage has a forged crank too.

Oh and here is another link stating the 191s are 64cc, more like 65.3 that EVERY 350 TBI head is. 193/191/810 they all have the same chamber.

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/sbc-...ccs-22481.html

Then factor in that cam matches NOTHING GM ever built, it just tells me that information is flat WRONG.

Or here maybe you will believe a machine shop....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/14102191-Sto...-/261353790882

I ask you again to please take down atleast your wrong cylinder head information. I have seen the wrong information get a racer disqualified and accused of cheating. Only to find out he had done NOTHING wrong. Mortec used to list the 14022601 305 HO heads as being 58cc when in reality they are 53cc. A dirt track racer I know was challenged and had to tear down his engine. I took the numbers on paper that a machine shop had given me when they cc'd my stock 601 heads prior to milling the heads and save his reputation. So once again, be careful posting WRONG information.

Originally Posted by Schurkey

You're WARY of the cam, not weary.

You'd have to be nuts to put another 305 back in. Both engines use flat-tapppet cams. There is some cause for concern, but don't obsess: the valve springs aren't stiff enough to make cam wear a deal-breaker.


But the power and roller cam are both long-term joys that will remain long after you've paid off the engine.

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

To be clear,I'm not concerned with who's rite,or,who's wrong here.My concern is that you are telling a person if they spend $2000 to buy this engine,they will have a forged crank & that is totally not true.They will not have a forged crank.The heads are listed all over the internet as 64cc,65cc,& 76 cc,so,that's not totally clear.When you remove your wrong info about a forged crank,or,show some proof as to your claim,my info stays as is.An Ebay seller is no more a realiable source than your forum post.He is just as likely to be wrong as you are.He coulda got his info from the same place you did.The internet.I would rather believe Pace,or,a GM parts dept over you.or,either of your sources. You need to be careful as well for posting WRONG info.If you wanna state that your engine has a forged crank,then,do so,but,don't tell a person to spend $2000 for an engine that has a forged crank when it definitely does not !!!!

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

The benefits of the L31 over either of the other 2 engines far outweighs the small difference in costs.It is well worth it.

Originally Posted by Fast355

HERE YOU GO...Yet another site proving me right on the forged crankshaft. Look at what crankshaft number they run. Number is 14088532

http://chicagoengines.com/engines/gm...C5506-426.aspx

Originally Posted by RS-Chevy-SS

I was under the impression the lo3 is a roller cam. The added cost of the L31 is around 200 for the mani, 50 for the adaptor, and uknown amount for tuning which I have almost no desire to learn and still new injectors, knock sensor etc. Thats more than a small difference. I was thinking of going LO3 purely for simplicity. Then later on added a set of headers for a boost in power

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

I'm sry,but.yes,if your L03 is a car motor,it should have a roller cam.That was my mistake.I'm used to dealing with trucks & they remained flat tappet in the truck L03 & L05,but,the car engines have roller.

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

If you could get the engine L05 used in cars.that would be.great.but,it's not available according to a previous post.

Originally Posted by Schurkey

I provided incorrect info also. My apologies.

It's not available NEW. There's millions of them used or rebuilt.

Originally Posted by RS-Chevy-SS

This. Rock auto has them rebuilt for about 1200

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

That would be a good option to consider.

Originally Posted by RS-Chevy-SS

You talking about the L30? Would i still need to swap injectors esc and prom? Will everything bolt up? Minus the intake mani

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

Yes.I had actually recommended
That in an earlier post.That is the little brother to the L31.It uses the same roller cam as the L31.The heads don't have a true fastburn chamber like the L31,but,it is probably the best OEM 305 head available.It flows about 220 cfm @ .500 lift.You will need to use the timing cover from your L03 & as you already know,you will need a Vortec intake.If you want,or,need to retain EGR,you will need a driverside Vortec exhaust manifold,or,headers to plumb it up.If not,simply delete it in your tune.Due to the improved head flow & cam specs,you will need some tuning for optimum results.This would still be a big improvement over the L03,or,L05.

Originally Posted by RS-Chevy-SS

I see, I wasnt aware I would need the timing cover. Why is that? EGR is not needed. Will the stock exhaust manifolds bolt up in the short term? May go through the vendor here for tuning. Can you point me to a intake mani and TB adapter for it?

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

The Vortec engines use a plastic timing cover with a port & spacing for the crank sensor & a reluctor wheel.The cover from your L03 will work.Any Vortec carb intake for an SBC will work.I like the Performer RPM myself.The 230 HP rating is as installed in an original vehicle with the Vortec fuel system which is somewhat better than the TBI.With some TBI mods tho,you should be close to that easily.Maybe even a little more becuz that is SAE net rating.With a good intake,headers,& tuning you should be well over that.You exhaust will work tho if needed to.I'll look around @ some intakes & post back.Bedtime has arrived.4 am gets here kinda early.LOL.

Originally Posted by Tuned Performance

I think hood clearance is the real issue using a adapter on tbi. A cowl hood allows more room.

Originally Posted by Tuned Performance

Or look into doing a cai , all that hot air into the engine isn't the best recipe for power

Originally Posted by RS-Chevy-SS

Wow that's early. Did some searching and I want to mate that L30 up to the intake mani linked below and use the linked TBI adapter. Thoughts?

Intake
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pfs-52007/overview/

Adapter
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-2200/overview/

Originally Posted by RS-Chevy-SS

I want to mate that L30 up to the intake mani linked below and use the linked TBI adapter. Thoughts?

Intake
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pfs-52007/overview/

Adapter
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-2200/overview/

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

The Vortec engines use a plastic timing cover with a port & spacing for the crank sensor & a reluctor wheel.The cover from your L03 will work.Any Vortec carb intake for an SBC will work.I like the Performer RPM myself.The 230 HP rating is as installed in an original vehicle with the Vortec fuel system which is somewhat better than the TBI.With some TBI mods tho,you should be close to that easily.Maybe even a little more becuz that is SAE net rating.With a good intake,headers,& tuning you should be well over that.You exhaust will work tho if needed to.I'll look around @ some intakes & post back.Bedtime has arrived.4 am gets here kinda early.LOL.

Originally Posted by Fast355

You must be kidding....The CSFI vortec intake with all the trash in the plenum is a DOG as far as performance goes. The only thing going for it is sequential port fuel injection. I pulled the CSFI intake off my 350 and put the L31 marine intake in its place and gained a good 500 rpm of useable powerband up top.

The GMPP TBI performance intake does not become a noticeable restriction until you pass over 250-260 RWHP on a 350. With less cylinder volume to fill it should work well on a street driven 305. The mission 305 car put down like 257 RWHP with a set of milled 062s, the GMPP intake, headers, exhaust, a mild cam and tuning.

Keep in mind the stock 305 injectors are pretty much maxed out at the 170 HP rating of the L03 at stock fuel pressure. He is going to need to bump up to some 350 injectors at about 14-15 psi to feed the engine. That will require prom tuning. The Vortec is also going to want more timing advance than the L03 ever thought about at both part throttle and WOT.

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

The Summit Stage 1 square bore intake (#SUM-226018) sells for $144.

Originally Posted by Fast355

You must be kidding....The CSFI vortec intake with all the trash in the plenum is a DOG as far as performance goes. The only thing going for it is sequential port fuel injection. I pulled the CSFI intake off my 350 and put the L31 marine intake in its place and gained a good 500 rpm of useable powerband up top.

The GMPP TBI performance intake does not become a noticeable restriction until you pass over 250-260 RWHP on a 350. With less cylinder volume to fill it should work well on a street driven 305. The mission 305 car put down like 257 RWHP with a set of milled 062s, the GMPP intake, headers, exhaust, a mild cam and tuning.

Keep in mind the stock 305 injectors are pretty much maxed out at the 170 HP rating of the L03 at stock fuel pressure. He is going to need to bump up to some 350 injectors at about 14-15 psi to feed the engine. That will require prom tuning. The Vortec is also going to want more timing advance than the L03 ever thought about at both part throttle and WOT.

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

double check the stack up including the adapter to make sure you will have hood clearance.other than that,the intake should work well.

Originally Posted by RS-Chevy-SS

How should i do that? Now heres my next questions, I couldnt build an engine on my own, however im pretty savy with basic jobs ie brakes, starters, stuff like that. Could I replace this motor myself with a stand and hoist? Im trying to save labor costs. This might even enable me to throw a nasty cam in her.

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

Add the diminsions of the intake + the thickness of the adapter & compare it to your current setup & however much you clearance you currently have.Yes,you can use a stand & hoist to do the swap.A nasty cam will require quite a few mods & tuning.The TBI/speed density is very picky to cam changes.You can upgrade the cam,but,there are limits as to how much cam you can reasonably tune & provide air & fuel for.

Originally Posted by RS-Chevy-SS

Is an LT1 cam of any benefit? I guess im more asking if this can be accomplished with basic skill and the right tools

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

Yeah,if your mechanically inclined,you should be able to do it.It would be better to have someone with experience to help you out.The LT1 cam would work.The 96 LT4 production cam(Not the LT4 Hotcam) would also make a good upgrade as would the Ramjet marine cam,#14097395)The Ramjet cam is listed new on Ebay quite often for $120.Those are just a few that would make mild upgrades w/o requiring a lot of additional work & mods to support.

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

Any of the cams listed above would be relatively easy to tune & wouldn't require any head work,however,as crappy as the stock springs are,I'd wanna change them.The LT1 cam prolly wouldn't be worth the effort to put in becuz it's specs are very close to the stock Vortec cam.The Ramjet cam does produce some awesome torque from 1800 rpm all the way to 5000.In a 305,it even has the slight hint of a lope @ idle.The stock cam is not a bad cam tho & if you change cams,you'll blow your warranty out the door.Also,I wouldn't attempt a cam change as long as your still running stock exhaust.You need a good exhaust system for the cam to work.For the exhaust bolts,saturate them with PB Blaster several times a few hrs before removal & tap on them several times before attempting to break them loose.You should use new bolts for the install,so,if they pop,no big deal unless you are using the old heads for something.IDK how much clearance you have for the bellhsg bolts.Have an assortment of extensions & swivels onhand when you start,or,consider pulling the trans out with it.By the way,I noticed that you can get the TBI adapter plate in both,spreadbore,or,square bore if needed.From the best I can tell,they are approx 1/4" thick.

Originally Posted by RS-Chevy-SS

Correct, but the square bore is what I need for that summit intake you linked correct? I have a feeling that if I do the pull/install myself I will save the money on labor, but the car may be down awhile.

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

Fast,what do you think about that Summit intake w/ the TBI adapter?Other than possible hgt issues,do you see any problem?

Originally Posted by RS-Chevy-SS

So im looking at water pumps for it rifht now and i notice it is not the same as the lo3 pump. The l30 pump has to additional lines next to the puller and the lo3 doesn't. Can i just use a lo3 pump on it?

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

Yes,you need to use the L03 pump.95 & older blocks have an internal bypass.The L30/L31 have an external bypass plumbed from the intake to the W/P.That is the extra port you see on the w/p.The L03 should have a place(a knockout) that you can install a nipple so that you route the bypass to it.Some ppl just block the intake port & drill 2 to 4 1/8" holes in the thermostat.I don't particularly for that method,but,it does work.The L30/L31 w/p has a different pulley setup than the L03/L05.You would have to swap pulleys & fan if you used the L30/L31 w/p.

Originally Posted by RS-Chevy-SS

So let me get this straight. I need to plumb in this bypass into the new LO3 WP to get it to run on the L30?

Originally Posted by alvanwie

My water pump did not have an extra bypass port. Just drill a couple of 1/4" holes in the lip of the thermostat as a bypass, works fine.

Originally Posted by RS-Chevy-SS

Right I get the part about drilling the wholes. Will the pump otherwise run on the L30.

Noob question but what is the bypass for? Could I run without the holes?

Originally Posted by alvanwie

The L03 pump should work fine.

Gen I Small blocks 1996 and later (Vortecs) do not have the coolant bypass in the block. The Vortec engines used a special thermostat which actually controlled the bypass port located in the manifold. It would close the bypass when the thermostat was open to force all of the coolant through the radiator.

Therefore when using a 1996 or later block (if it does not have a bypass port in the block) you need to provide an external bypass of some sort. Otherwise when the thermostat is closed there is no coolant circulation through the engine. This will cause hot spots in the engine and since the thermostat is not located at one of the hot spots it will probably not open. Many times you will not even see much of a rise on the temp gauge either and unless you here the coolant boiling in your heads you will probably have no idea why your shiney new motor cooked.

Originally Posted by RS-Chevy-SS

So what would it take to make this function as designed? Im not thrilled on just dropping the stat and would much rather run it as designed

Originally Posted by jokerZ71

Some L03 pumps have a knockout for the extra port,some don't.I've seen the w/ a knockout the needs to be threaded & I've seen them w/ the port already threaded w/ a plug installed.I guess it depends on the brand pump,or,maybe the application.The intake will have the by-pass port.You need to plumb from this intake port to the w/p,or'drill the holes in the thermostat.Either will work fine.